Contract work - code: ship class with turrets implementation
by Thomas \"Man of Ice\" Lund · in Jobs · 12/25/2004 (8:11 am) · 18 replies
** Update - no more applicants please **
Due to landing myself a nice 3-4-5 month full time consulting gig, I'm hard pressed on finishing up some game dev that I'm working on.
Thus I'm looking for someone to help me get some code done that I was supposed to work on.
This is a paid, fixed salary coding job. You will be given a requirement spec and a fully working prototype implementation, and are to return a fully working new TGE ship class.
The ship class needs the following major features:
* capital engine powered ship physics with rudder controls. Must be usable for gun ships and up to battleship/aircraft carrier type ships
* 0->X number of mounted turrets that rotate pointing at a given coordinate
* physics for gun firing, making the ship rock back and forth in the water
* support for some wake emitters, damage emitters (smoke), random sink animations
* collision detection
* AI methods for e.g. turret firing solutions, movement to a specific position and collision avoidance
* script interfaces to all major methods (steering, engine thrust, firing guns)
Exact specifications will be shipped to the prime candidate for the job to be able to give a quote.
I need work to start first week of January and end asap. Latest end of January.
All ownership rights will be given me when the job is finished and paid for.
Payment plan is negotiable, but will consist of a percentage on delivery and a percentage on approval. No up front payment.
Only serious coders need apply. I dont have time or the nerve to guide an inexperienced scripter through learning C++ and TGE coding.
I want to be able to seal a deal before new year, so respond fast.
Your response should minimum include
* experience with TGE
* experience with kinetics, especially ship type physics if any
* any other relevant information that might make me favour you over others
* price estimates if possible (e.g. typical hourly rates, rough and non-binding estimate of the job or similar)
Send your info to thomas@trylleskoven.dk. If you need more info, then feel free to contact me.
Due to landing myself a nice 3-4-5 month full time consulting gig, I'm hard pressed on finishing up some game dev that I'm working on.
Thus I'm looking for someone to help me get some code done that I was supposed to work on.
This is a paid, fixed salary coding job. You will be given a requirement spec and a fully working prototype implementation, and are to return a fully working new TGE ship class.
The ship class needs the following major features:
* capital engine powered ship physics with rudder controls. Must be usable for gun ships and up to battleship/aircraft carrier type ships
* 0->X number of mounted turrets that rotate pointing at a given coordinate
* physics for gun firing, making the ship rock back and forth in the water
* support for some wake emitters, damage emitters (smoke), random sink animations
* collision detection
* AI methods for e.g. turret firing solutions, movement to a specific position and collision avoidance
* script interfaces to all major methods (steering, engine thrust, firing guns)
Exact specifications will be shipped to the prime candidate for the job to be able to give a quote.
I need work to start first week of January and end asap. Latest end of January.
All ownership rights will be given me when the job is finished and paid for.
Payment plan is negotiable, but will consist of a percentage on delivery and a percentage on approval. No up front payment.
Only serious coders need apply. I dont have time or the nerve to guide an inexperienced scripter through learning C++ and TGE coding.
I want to be able to seal a deal before new year, so respond fast.
Your response should minimum include
* experience with TGE
* experience with kinetics, especially ship type physics if any
* any other relevant information that might make me favour you over others
* price estimates if possible (e.g. typical hourly rates, rough and non-binding estimate of the job or similar)
Send your info to thomas@trylleskoven.dk. If you need more info, then feel free to contact me.
#2
12/27/2004 (7:03 am)
Probably xmas issues. I haven't read these boards for almost a week! 
#3
12/27/2004 (9:20 am)
Another reason may be the "No up front payment". I know too many other contractors who have been unpaid for their efforts or found it extremely difficult to get payment. If the party i'm contracting for is unwilling to trust me to complete the work we've agreed to, why should i trust that they will pay me when it's complete? The advance should never be a large sum. It's supposed to be just enough that a contractor can be assured of your seriousness to complete the project and make the final payment. For us it's been 20 to 35% of the milestone depending on the project.
#4
@Tom
Well - while I can see the point from your side - the risk is the same on my side.
Most online people I do not know professionally, and unless you are well known in the community as such then I wont send my money to somewhere and never see some code delivered. Its a 2 edged sword, and naturally my initial bid is to play it safe. Should Bravetree or other well known people bid, then I'm more than willing to discuss terms. For unknown people its pay on delivery.
12/27/2004 (11:00 am)
@Brian - yeah. Thats what I hope/think too.@Tom
Well - while I can see the point from your side - the risk is the same on my side.
Most online people I do not know professionally, and unless you are well known in the community as such then I wont send my money to somewhere and never see some code delivered. Its a 2 edged sword, and naturally my initial bid is to play it safe. Should Bravetree or other well known people bid, then I'm more than willing to discuss terms. For unknown people its pay on delivery.
#5
12/27/2004 (11:26 am)
@Thomas - It is a two way street and neither party should take on the entire risk. Anyone who does is not an experienced professional.
#6
12/27/2004 (12:02 pm)
You might consider one of the many online escrow services that are available. Or you could go through something like rentacoder.com
#7
Thomas, I would have loved to have worked on this myself, but quite honestly my experience level with the specific requirements wasn't nearly high enough to send up a proposal. I do hope you find someone able to meet your requirements!
12/27/2004 (12:03 pm)
Heh..I wish I could convince my real world customers to pay on time, much less pay a portion up front. I've never seen an advance as a portion of the payment plan, and I've seen payments not get made for 3+ months after a project is completed--now, I work almost exclusively with medium to large hospitals, so it's not like they are going anywhere, but it's still extremely rare to ever see payment up front in any form.Thomas, I would have loved to have worked on this myself, but quite honestly my experience level with the specific requirements wasn't nearly high enough to send up a proposal. I do hope you find someone able to meet your requirements!
#8
The one person Thomas needs would be someone fluid in TGE and he won't get someone like that from a freelancer database. Seems to me it's a number one chance for someone who either is fluid or is about to get to.
12/27/2004 (12:16 pm)
Obviously not a rentacoder type of thing.The one person Thomas needs would be someone fluid in TGE and he won't get someone like that from a freelancer database. Seems to me it's a number one chance for someone who either is fluid or is about to get to.
#9
That statement is correct for more than one reason. A freelancer database is not likely to have someone that owns a TGE License either. Which technically is exactly what the person needs before Thomas can show them they code. To do otherwise is a violation of the EULA.
I'm not saying Thomas would do that, I'm just saying that when you contract someone to work with you like this, that is something that really needs to be #1 in your requirement list. Make sure they have the License before you hire them, much less show them source.
12/27/2004 (12:43 pm)
Quote:The one person Thomas needs would be someone fluid in TGE and he won't get someone like that from a freelancer database.
That statement is correct for more than one reason. A freelancer database is not likely to have someone that owns a TGE License either. Which technically is exactly what the person needs before Thomas can show them they code. To do otherwise is a violation of the EULA.
I'm not saying Thomas would do that, I'm just saying that when you contract someone to work with you like this, that is something that really needs to be #1 in your requirement list. Make sure they have the License before you hire them, much less show them source.
#10
I wasn't saying Thomas should grab someone from rentacoder, only that that website has a decent escrow service/assured payment system.
12/27/2004 (3:10 pm)
Quote:Obviously not a rentacoder type of thing.
The one person Thomas needs would be someone fluid in TGE and he won't get someone like that from a freelancer database. Seems to me it's a number one chance for someone who either is fluid or is about to get to.
I wasn't saying Thomas should grab someone from rentacoder, only that that website has a decent escrow service/assured payment system.
#11
12/27/2004 (3:20 pm)
Mark is right. RAC is just an escrow service. If the work isn't done, the coder doesn't get paid, and you get a refund. If there's trouble, you can go trough an arbitration process and they decide who is at fault. There's security for both parties involved. Its a very good way of handling things like this. I use it all the time. Did more then 50 transactions trough that site already, never had any troubles.
#12
that way both of you minimize your exposure/risk.
12/27/2004 (4:09 pm)
Your best bet is a "milestone" based payment system, someone delivers a milestone you deliver the payment.that way both of you minimize your exposure/risk.
#13
12/27/2004 (4:19 pm)
Although I think the milestone idea is great, with this particular need they want everything complete by the "Latest end of January" it would be hard to fit too many milestones in there.
#14
Just like Stephen I have never seen anyone pay anything up front for small jobs like this (also not larger ones). And I've worked 10+ years in the consulting business on both sides of the table (software deals in private and public sectors in the below $1M range).
Milestone payments yes - but nothing up front. Especially not for someone you never worked with before.
As I stated I expect this to be a less than 1 month job. So a payment on delivery and payment on approval is a milestone payment plan imho. Very hard to do anything different.
Another "security" part is, that the consultant doesnt transfer rights to the code until payment is recieved. That might sound like a small thing, but if I really cheated someone they could rightfully sue me if I used their code.
Last thing is contracts. Always do paper contracts and NDA. With them in hand, you can always go to court - both sides.
12/28/2004 (8:10 am)
(Sorry for not responding earlier - my motherboard crashed, so had to reinstall my entire machine + get new hardware)Just like Stephen I have never seen anyone pay anything up front for small jobs like this (also not larger ones). And I've worked 10+ years in the consulting business on both sides of the table (software deals in private and public sectors in the below $1M range).
Milestone payments yes - but nothing up front. Especially not for someone you never worked with before.
As I stated I expect this to be a less than 1 month job. So a payment on delivery and payment on approval is a milestone payment plan imho. Very hard to do anything different.
Another "security" part is, that the consultant doesnt transfer rights to the code until payment is recieved. That might sound like a small thing, but if I really cheated someone they could rightfully sue me if I used their code.
Last thing is contracts. Always do paper contracts and NDA. With them in hand, you can always go to court - both sides.
#15
I didn't know that. I thought it was more like a want ads type site where people could find or sell services(coders). I didn't realize they had the other services.
As for some of the other comments here, I'm starting to feel very lucky because it would appear that I've been doing good business with good people and have not yet been ripped off. But because of the number of offers and emails I've been getting I've been considering asking for an up front 15% down payment once an agreement is reached just so I can confirm their seriousness to the project. Now I'm starting to think this is a bad idea, lol. I do practice and believe in Thomas' suggestion of contracts and NDAs though, that's a must no matter what if you want at least some protection of your rights.
12/28/2004 (8:55 am)
Quote:I wasn't saying Thomas should grab someone from rentacoder, only that that website has a decent escrow service/assured payment system.
I didn't know that. I thought it was more like a want ads type site where people could find or sell services(coders). I didn't realize they had the other services.
As for some of the other comments here, I'm starting to feel very lucky because it would appear that I've been doing good business with good people and have not yet been ripped off. But because of the number of offers and emails I've been getting I've been considering asking for an up front 15% down payment once an agreement is reached just so I can confirm their seriousness to the project. Now I'm starting to think this is a bad idea, lol. I do practice and believe in Thomas' suggestion of contracts and NDAs though, that's a must no matter what if you want at least some protection of your rights.
#16
Hmm, that's a bit too "loose", IMO. The percentage on approval is scary... and I certainly would not commit to a "no upfront payment". I've always secured at least 1/3 of the project budget or I simply don't do the work. It's a "good faith" move by both parties.
The delivery time for your "ship class needs" is very aggressive. That's a lot of physics and trig to implement in one month's time.
I've been working on a WWI Dreadnought warfare sim and the ship physics are certainly not trivial. Especially since it's requires modding the TGE source code to accomplish some of it. At least in using my approach.
12/29/2004 (7:34 am)
Quote:Payment plan is negotiable, but will consist of a percentage on delivery and a percentage on approval. No up front payment.
Hmm, that's a bit too "loose", IMO. The percentage on approval is scary... and I certainly would not commit to a "no upfront payment". I've always secured at least 1/3 of the project budget or I simply don't do the work. It's a "good faith" move by both parties.
The delivery time for your "ship class needs" is very aggressive. That's a lot of physics and trig to implement in one month's time.
I've been working on a WWI Dreadnought warfare sim and the ship physics are certainly not trivial. Especially since it's requires modding the TGE source code to accomplish some of it. At least in using my approach.
#17
12/29/2004 (7:42 am)
I've recieved some qualified responses, and am in negotiations with them. I have updated the initial message.
#18
This is not an applicaition.
It's indeed unfortunate that I just ran across this thread. I have a good mix of tools, experience, and talent to apply to this kind of problem. Should things not work out, drop me a line and I can respond in greater detail. As well, should you encounter a similar situation in the future or know of anyone else with this sort of development challenge, I would be most interested.
Best of luck,
(Mr) Kristen.
02/03/2005 (10:51 am)
Thomas,This is not an applicaition.
It's indeed unfortunate that I just ran across this thread. I have a good mix of tools, experience, and talent to apply to this kind of problem. Should things not work out, drop me a line and I can respond in greater detail. As well, should you encounter a similar situation in the future or know of anyone else with this sort of development challenge, I would be most interested.
Best of luck,
(Mr) Kristen.
Torque Owner Thomas \"Man of Ice\" Lund
To my big surprise, I havent gotten a single application for this job.
I'll reiterate - this is a coding job for real $$$. Nothing with percentages of some distant future maybe completed game
Feel free to pitch in if you think you almost can fullfill all requirements (e.g. maybe missing a little kinetics knowledge - I have most physics formulas handy)
Merry xmas