No Torque for me :(
by Myles · in General Discussion · 12/21/2004 (2:13 am) · 31 replies
So about a month ago I found Garage Games, and became interested in buying an Indie liscence for Torque. But My wallet doesn't agree. It sucks being so broke I can't afford $100.
But instead of moping around and drooling over Torque, I downloaded the DirectX 9 SDK and made a little game prototype.
You can Download it here (right click save as)
BRIEF INSTRUCTIONS
IF you have any problems I'd be interested in hearing them, as I could probably learn alot from them.
This is the first app I've ever made with DirectX, and it was made from scratch.
It took approx one month to make a little render engine and the game prototype. Thats one month of about 4 hours a day, so around 120 man hours.
The main objective was to learn DirectX, not make the greatest game ever.
The next step is to port it all over to OpenGl becuase I'd like to learn that, and Add sound, currently there is no sound.
DirectX is pretty easy, and I think its main power is that it includes everything, Graphics, Sound, Input.
I know that there is OpenGL for graphics and OpenAL for audio, but I'm not sure about an Open standard Input library, to replace DirectInput.
IF anyone knows of one let me know.
Anyway, the little render engine is pretty basic. IT does all the basic basic stuff:
Handles all primitve geometery.
Loads and displays meshes (no animation).
Lighting.
Alpha blending (material, vertex and texture)
Does one texture stage with alpha OP.
Fog (vertex Only)
Text Strings.
Camera stuff. etc...
Some of the more glaring imperfections is that it doesn't do any anti-aliasing or Depth biasing. I'll probably try to add that during the OpenGL port. And probably model animations.
It will load and display meshes but the xFile exporters I had at hand were poor, so all the models and animation in the game currently are entered by hand, vertex by vertex, normal by normal, color by color, texture coordinate by coordinate, all typed in. Not too bad since there is only three models and they are all very simple (two cubes and an arrow).
So I'll probably try to get a standard model format with OpenGl.
Anyway, hopefully by the time I'm done with openGL I can afford Torque and I'll play around with it.
Any comments you can put in this thread.
I learned a quite a bit from this little project and expect to learn more with OpenGL. The one main feature that kicked my arse was Alpha blending. Simply becuase I didn't initialy understand it correctly. I had to go to both ATI and nVidia's sites and read driver details to see how the stages were actually handled until I understood it.
For those interested the tools used were:
DirectX 9 SDK.
VC++ 6.0.
CVSNT.
PHOTOSHOP CS (trial).
Notepad.
All free except Visual C.++ 6.0. Which is older than dirt.
But instead of moping around and drooling over Torque, I downloaded the DirectX 9 SDK and made a little game prototype.
You can Download it here (right click save as)
BRIEF INSTRUCTIONS
Quote:
You'll need DirectX 9 To play. Extract the folder and go. There is one texture and the app. Keep them in the same folder.
Its nothing new, just a clone of some other dice games. You move with the keyboard Arrow keys. The object is to combine like die together to score points. You can chain Die while they are dropping to get exponential points.
You can push the die, or climb on top of them and roll them.
If you chain 'Ones' together with dropping die you get more time.
The game is over if the grid gets filled or you run out of time. You can restart by pressing Spacebar, and exit by pressing esc.
IF you have any problems I'd be interested in hearing them, as I could probably learn alot from them.
This is the first app I've ever made with DirectX, and it was made from scratch.
It took approx one month to make a little render engine and the game prototype. Thats one month of about 4 hours a day, so around 120 man hours.
The main objective was to learn DirectX, not make the greatest game ever.
The next step is to port it all over to OpenGl becuase I'd like to learn that, and Add sound, currently there is no sound.
DirectX is pretty easy, and I think its main power is that it includes everything, Graphics, Sound, Input.
I know that there is OpenGL for graphics and OpenAL for audio, but I'm not sure about an Open standard Input library, to replace DirectInput.
IF anyone knows of one let me know.
Anyway, the little render engine is pretty basic. IT does all the basic basic stuff:
Handles all primitve geometery.
Loads and displays meshes (no animation).
Lighting.
Alpha blending (material, vertex and texture)
Does one texture stage with alpha OP.
Fog (vertex Only)
Text Strings.
Camera stuff. etc...
Some of the more glaring imperfections is that it doesn't do any anti-aliasing or Depth biasing. I'll probably try to add that during the OpenGL port. And probably model animations.
It will load and display meshes but the xFile exporters I had at hand were poor, so all the models and animation in the game currently are entered by hand, vertex by vertex, normal by normal, color by color, texture coordinate by coordinate, all typed in. Not too bad since there is only three models and they are all very simple (two cubes and an arrow).
So I'll probably try to get a standard model format with OpenGl.
Anyway, hopefully by the time I'm done with openGL I can afford Torque and I'll play around with it.
Any comments you can put in this thread.
I learned a quite a bit from this little project and expect to learn more with OpenGL. The one main feature that kicked my arse was Alpha blending. Simply becuase I didn't initialy understand it correctly. I had to go to both ATI and nVidia's sites and read driver details to see how the stages were actually handled until I understood it.
For those interested the tools used were:
DirectX 9 SDK.
VC++ 6.0.
CVSNT.
PHOTOSHOP CS (trial).
Notepad.
All free except Visual C.++ 6.0. Which is older than dirt.
About the author
#2
Sorry.
12/21/2004 (5:30 am)
Hmmm.... I thought this was a General Discussion forum.Quote:
General posts about game development that don't fit anywhere else. Please see the Torque section below for Torque Game Engine specific posts.
Sorry.
#3
12/21/2004 (5:57 am)
This is an indie site right??? By saying that its just for Torque only is kind of saying "sure its an indie site, but you can only talk about torque", doesnt sound very indie to me....but lets see what Jeff and EMPLOYEES have to say about it.
#4
12/21/2004 (6:04 am)
I personally don't see anything wrong with posting non-Torque stuff here, but you would get a much larger response from GameDev.net
#5
I'd have to agree too... obviously you can post anything about this sort of topic here, though again you'd probably find it more gratifying posting it at a site that was so focused around their own game engine...
you'll get a lot of people here that will argue that going the Torque way is a good option... with quite good reasons...
quite interesting Myles... though I'd have to go the Torque way also and hope you can afford Torque down the road.
12/21/2004 (6:04 am)
All he said was Quote:Well, that's very interesting and all, but these *are* Torque and TGE related products forums. You might find it more gratifying and productive to post in a more general "game-oriented" community forum.
I'd have to agree too... obviously you can post anything about this sort of topic here, though again you'd probably find it more gratifying posting it at a site that was so focused around their own game engine...
you'll get a lot of people here that will argue that going the Torque way is a good option... with quite good reasons...
quite interesting Myles... though I'd have to go the Torque way also and hope you can afford Torque down the road.
#6
It sounds like Torque is for you. Its great learning DirectX and OpenGL, but you might want to consider getting Torque anyway when you have a chance; that way you can have the time and resources to make games that are much more sophisticated than dice games.
12/21/2004 (6:55 am)
Myles,It sounds like Torque is for you. Its great learning DirectX and OpenGL, but you might want to consider getting Torque anyway when you have a chance; that way you can have the time and resources to make games that are much more sophisticated than dice games.
#8
If you want to make games, there are many better ways than starting an engine from scratch...
Otherwise, have fun storming the castle.
12/21/2004 (7:11 am)
I've got around $20.00 in aluminum cans you can have... that's a start.If you want to make games, there are many better ways than starting an engine from scratch...
Otherwise, have fun storming the castle.
#9
Correction lol, your probably ok as your coding your own stuff.
12/21/2004 (7:11 am)
Myles the GG forums are about torque more than indie game dev in general. I used to think like you but unfortunately it isn't the case.Correction lol, your probably ok as your coding your own stuff.
#10
LibSDL should help you with that.
And while I agree with Josh that writing a game engine from scratch isn't the best way to get a game finished - I would like to say that writing an engine from scratch is one of the best ways to learn about making games in general.
12/21/2004 (7:34 am)
Quote:but I'm not sure about an Open standard Input library, to replace DirectInput.
IF anyone knows of one let me know.
LibSDL should help you with that.
And while I agree with Josh that writing a game engine from scratch isn't the best way to get a game finished - I would like to say that writing an engine from scratch is one of the best ways to learn about making games in general.
#11
Nothing wrong with discussing non-Torque stuff here.
12/21/2004 (7:41 am)
Echo what Mark said. In fact, I highly suggest that everyone tries writing a game engine from scratch. Nothing wrong with discussing non-Torque stuff here.
#12
I thought his post was very interesting myself, and certainly "fit" into the General Discussion forum area!
Thanks for posting, and I know I for one would love to hear how things progress, and I would especially love to hear a comparison between what you learn along the way, and then your thoughts on TGE when you are able to purchase it.
12/21/2004 (7:47 am)
Heh..response to this guy's post was pretty harsh guys--he said from the beginning that since he couldn't currently afford TGE, he was going to play around learning until he had enough budget to purchase the license, and then buy TGE.I thought his post was very interesting myself, and certainly "fit" into the General Discussion forum area!
Thanks for posting, and I know I for one would love to hear how things progress, and I would especially love to hear a comparison between what you learn along the way, and then your thoughts on TGE when you are able to purchase it.
#13
That is how I got started. When I did a rough calculation about how long it was going to take to complete my own engine and start working on the game, I figured it was time to look for another solution. Considering how long it is taking just to do my first game (damn day job keeps gettin' in the way!) I probably would never have finished the self rolled engine in the first place!
12/21/2004 (8:05 am)
Quote:Echo what Mark said. In fact, I highly suggest that everyone tries writing a game engine from scratch.
Nothing wrong with discussing non-Torque stuff here.
That is how I got started. When I did a rough calculation about how long it was going to take to complete my own engine and start working on the game, I figured it was time to look for another solution. Considering how long it is taking just to do my first game (damn day job keeps gettin' in the way!) I probably would never have finished the self rolled engine in the first place!
#14
I don't see anything like that... read the posts, they're quite positive...
Yes, there is obviously a Torque slant to these forums. Though, many people here are not using Torque, myself included.
What I see is a thread titled "No Torque for me :(" ... which has "No", "Torque", and ":(" in it... the content of the post also mentions Torque. It makes sense that Torque would be part of the discussion.
@Myles: You don't really know the weight of something until you have tried to pick it up... go for it !!!
-Josh
12/21/2004 (8:06 am)
Quote:response to this guy's post was pretty harsh guys
I don't see anything like that... read the posts, they're quite positive...
Quote:the GG forums are about torque more than indie game dev in general
Yes, there is obviously a Torque slant to these forums. Though, many people here are not using Torque, myself included.
What I see is a thread titled "No Torque for me :(" ... which has "No", "Torque", and ":(" in it... the content of the post also mentions Torque. It makes sense that Torque would be part of the discussion.
@Myles: You don't really know the weight of something until you have tried to pick it up... go for it !!!
-Josh
#16
I would definitely add a help screen,
or at least include some HTML docs in the .zip.
As someone who doesn't know the genre of Dice Games,
i found it kinda confusing.
Kudos for writing it, keep it up.
Orion
12/21/2004 (9:30 am)
Myles - nice small game.I would definitely add a help screen,
or at least include some HTML docs in the .zip.
As someone who doesn't know the genre of Dice Games,
i found it kinda confusing.
Kudos for writing it, keep it up.
Orion
#17
that said, it can be done by one or two dedicated people if they have the talent and desire and most importantly the TIME.
Time is the only constant in the equation, you can always get more money, desire or talent, but time you can never get enough ;-)
12/21/2004 (10:33 am)
The best incentive to buy Torque ( or something similar ) is to FAIL ( or never finish ) at trying to create the same thing ;-)that said, it can be done by one or two dedicated people if they have the talent and desire and most importantly the TIME.
Time is the only constant in the equation, you can always get more money, desire or talent, but time you can never get enough ;-)
#18
Dangit this stuff is so broken, I should write a 3d engine.
...
There that wasn't too hard. Now all I have to do is put in exporters, file handling, scripting, networking, oh I should have probably done a better object system...crap. Forget that.
12/21/2004 (12:23 pm)
I would usually have rational like the following:Dangit this stuff is so broken, I should write a 3d engine.
...
There that wasn't too hard. Now all I have to do is put in exporters, file handling, scripting, networking, oh I should have probably done a better object system...crap. Forget that.
#19
You're plan sounds good, I don't know if you have or not I haven't checked, but you should consider making a .plan.
These are great forums, for indie dev's, and more angled to torque because, it's put up by the makers of torque! But I know there are lots of people here (OK maybe not LOTS, but many) not using torque. Thanks for the post, hope you continue, and succeed.
-cD
12/21/2004 (2:05 pm)
Hey, I hear you, not having the money to buy Torque, but someday we will, GG was so nice to make an engine for only $100 makes it so much easier for so many people.You're plan sounds good, I don't know if you have or not I haven't checked, but you should consider making a .plan.
These are great forums, for indie dev's, and more angled to torque because, it's put up by the makers of torque! But I know there are lots of people here (OK maybe not LOTS, but many) not using torque. Thanks for the post, hope you continue, and succeed.
-cD
#20
Yep, that's pretty much the size of it.
@Myles:
Congratulations! I can't recommend highly enough that any serious game programmer sit down and create their own 3D engine like this! And now you've learned DirectX - which is a valuable skill whether you are doing indie games or looking for a job in the games industry later. And it's useful whether or not you end up doing your own engine for a commercial project or not - after you understand what goes into it and what must take place in the guts of 3D engine programming, you will be better prepared to dive into any other engine and start tweaking it to do EXACTLY what you want.
Great job, sir!
12/21/2004 (2:44 pm)
@Pat:Yep, that's pretty much the size of it.
@Myles:
Congratulations! I can't recommend highly enough that any serious game programmer sit down and create their own 3D engine like this! And now you've learned DirectX - which is a valuable skill whether you are doing indie games or looking for a job in the games industry later. And it's useful whether or not you end up doing your own engine for a commercial project or not - after you understand what goes into it and what must take place in the guts of 3D engine programming, you will be better prepared to dive into any other engine and start tweaking it to do EXACTLY what you want.
Great job, sir!
Torque Owner Jeff Houck