JFK assasination game

#21 Actually, Microsoft released a patch for their Flight Simulator that removed the twin towers three hours after they fell because several 9/11 missions showed up. A Quake 3 Columbine mod was created shortly after the tragedy there.

#22 @David: I believe that everyone need a catalyst in a time of crisis and making a 9/11 mission in MS Flight sim might just be one.
When people start to making these "enactments" for profit, then it's time to react....

#23 We had a game about the David Koresh / Waco raid posted up as a screenshot of the day last year.

I have several different emotions on this. But ultimately, I'll simply state that I feel it is in bad taste. It's not the first, and won't be the last. But I have no time, stomache, or sympathy for a game that exists soley to allow the player to revel in the gruesome reenactment of a brutal crime.

I won't play it. I have no problems playing a sniper in a game where I am fighting enemy soldiers out to kill me, or aliens, or terrorists, or contestants in a game where 'death' is only a delay before you respawn (or clean the paint off before the next match).

Context is everything.

#24 I don't know if catalyst is the right word for what people were doing with the missions, but I do know that the initial missions released weren't cathartic and were jokes based on the tragedy. I don't even remember how many trolls I suspended from GameFAQs that week, but I know that I was very busy at the time.

I can see how playing JFK Reloaded could be seen as a cathartic experience, though. Sometimes we need to purge our problems through a wide variety of means. But if we start linking videogames and catharsis, we also have to admit that they can become a major influence in people's lives. That starts us on a slippery slope of asking how much is too much and whether we've been lying to ourselves and everyone else about the amount of influence games/tv/books have on children who commit violent acts.

I find a lot of this fascinating, just like I find racial politics fascinating. But I only am really interested on an academic level. I don't want to see a simulated rape game using force feedback sex toys. I don't want to see a game where you snipe children at a day care. But I'm also extremely curious about the perceived line between games and simulations, and knowing how far is too far both literally and figuratively. I don't even know what branches of science I would be pursuing this line of research with, though. It has a lot to do with psychology, cultural anthropology, sociology, and of course computer science for the technological aspects.

#25 React how? By limiting free expression?

I don't like this game either, and like Ed Gardner said, these guys just got themselves listed on the Secret Service watch list(which involves occasional visits for intimidation purposes in order to ensure that the person knows they're being watched). Not that I liked Kennedy, but he was a President. And honestly, out there are a few people watching the murder of their cousin/uncle/etc being turned into a game. Nothing tasteful about that. Games about wars are impersonal, and killing Hitler... Well, who wouldn't want to do that? ;)

However, it is freedom of expression, however detestable that expression is. Either games train you or they can't. My guess is that they can, but so does playing cops and robbers, and you can't outlaw that either, just because one day some kid who played that game will do it for real. My 2 cents on that game.

Quote:Any game where the object is to shoot americans would prolly be a good seller right about now... sadly...

Why, when they can shoot at us for real?

Quote:One thing I never understand about america is why this game is fine and dandy whilst a game picturing naked females would be banned. Maybe it makes sense somewhere, I just fail to see it.

Actually, a game picturing naked females wouldn't be banned. It would just be rated for adults. And this game really isn't fine and dandy, it's just that it's protected under the Constitution. Like the right to bear arms, though we see where that right went...

#26 Was the movie "JFK" in bad taste? Is it possible to make a game/sim about someone's assasination without it being in bad taste? Is it just the element of pulling the trigger that makes this game "bad"?

#27 Is "Manhunt" in better taste because the people you slaughter are anonymous?

#28 Ted, I'm not talking legislation.

Major companies in this buisness already has a policy regarding these kind of questions but since we are scattered bunch with no formal ties it's basically up to ourself to revise our statement.
I think taking a stance against such games at an official level should be a natural decision.

Alot of people refer to computer/videogames as art, I don't necessarily agree but I believe they carry a message
As the creator of such games it is up to us that we spend some time considering what that message should be.
A war game should (imho) somehow try to diplay the meaninglessness of the killing and the frustration and fear in the depicted soldiers.

And you are right, that comment about american double standards where out of line. It is still my opinion but this it not the time nor the place to discuss it.
I shall have it removed from the original post.

Brian, if this game would have discussed the theorys around the assasination, recreated the investigation or somehow acted as a history lesson opposed to the nail-the-sucker-and-win-a-100-bucks concept it is today I would have been OK with it.
I liked the Oliver Stone movie.

Josh, no, I don't believe Manhunt is any better, I returned that game to the store the same day I bought it.
It's all about the message to me; you'll be happy killing these people, you are better of a mind-less mass-murderer than a human that'll have to live with the consequence of your actions.
Although I do believe there is a difference between these two games.

#29

Quote:Is it possible to make a game/sim about someone's assasination without it being in bad taste?

I think it's very possible, IMO, but it's definitely dependent on the context in the game. Admittedly, looking at the site, the context isn't that bad, but I still am not thrilled about the idea of recreating JFK's murder. As an aside, their question had been answered on Unsolved History by a sharpshooter with the same type of weapon firing on a vehicle moving at the same speed, from a similar angle and elevation. He actually scored better hits than Oswald did in the same span of time...

Quote:Is "Manhunt" in better taste because the people you slaughter are anonymous?

Not that they are anonymous, but they've never really existed, and so you're not really recreating the murder of a real individual. Of course within that there's exceptions(the well-known Hitler analogy), but by and large it kind of falls under the movie disclaimers that pop up in the credits to say that "any resemblences to persons living or dead are purely coincidental...blah blah...".

And beyond that, taste is an individual matter. I bought Manhunt, I have no desire to buy this JFK game. Others may feel different about either, and that's okay with me.

#30 @Jorgen: No, not legislation. I don't think we need any, since we already police ourselves better than parents do their kids. However, it's going to happen anyway, and the only thing to do is make sure that the legislation is protective of expression rather than restriction.

But there's a gray area here where taste becomes something that less than a comfortable majority of the public can agree on. At that point, it's really up to the person whether to purchase or not, and up to the developer to develop or not. I don't know if a group stance on that is really needed.

Quote:And you are right, that comment about american double standards where out of line.

I didn't say it was out of line, just incorrect. It didn't offend me, and you didn't need to remove it. It's actually relevant to the subject at hand, insofar as that analogy itself goes. There is definitely a problem with how the law handles certain things in different aspects of society, and I myself believe that it needs to be leveled out because it will have an effect on games as well.

Thing is, when you do that, you're going to be in for some muddy waters for a long time to come(which has already started anyway). Like kids who hurt people and blame a video game because they took the idea from the game(but the game never told them to do it, and excersized no control over their thoughts). Or, like the lawsuits against MMO's comparing them to cigarette manufacturers. There's a lot of copping out going on in society in general, and part of the way to fight it is to hold the line against that kind of nonsense, even if it means fighting for the right to express ideas that you don't like, as well as those that you do.

#31 Ted hit the nail perfectly in the expression issue. I hate racism. It really pisses me off. BUT I will work to protect the free expression that racists utilize because I like to have free expression against them. While it would be nice to neatly snip away the things I don't like in society, life can't really operate that way without sacrificing things that I also hold dear. My little totalitarian society would be a far from ideal place.

My interest in this, as I said, is purely academic. I'm strongly interested in the effects or supposed effects that gaming has on the lives of players, positive or negative.

I would never buy this game because I don't think it's worth the price of admission. I'd rather download Counterstirke sniper mods because there's more meat to them. As for Manhunt, I enjoyed the game for the most part. It became a bit boring as the stealth element was removed and the action elements kicked in. I prefered the stealth-style at the beginning of the game to the action in the mid-later portions. As for the killing, I didn't see that it was too different from most games as your adversaries are thugs hired to kill you. You just have to kill them first. The thing that it added was a variety of brutal ways to kill them and a "hero" that wasn't so heroic. Personally, I prefered the Suffering, in which you could choose to kill "good" people such as other inmates or guards to progress Torque's story.

#32 Ok there is a difference from a movie and a game.

I've never seen a movie that glorifies the murder of JFK. Also, even though they take liberties, movies in some cases make people aware of things. What can a game about shooting someone in the back of the head prove?
Sure there are a lot of games like that. But there games. They are not based on factual events.
People are hard enough on senseless violence in video games. The argument always being that it wasn't real. Isn't this a little close to home?

What's next? Who can push Princess Diana's car into a pylon?

#33 If you look at the history of cinema, you'll see a number of films that "glorify" horrific events. Many of them are documentaries without a popular political slant. That doesn't make them any less effective as a manipulation tool. Especially when you realize that the German film propoganda model was based upon American commercial propoganda. They had different ends, but the means were the same. Your product is good, competitors are bad in comparison. Jews are rats, upstanding citizens report and stamp them out. It's an extremely simple and effective tool.

Interactive media has the same potential to be used for good will or ill will depending on our viewpoint. That said, I would consider a game where systematic genocide is prevalent to be a negative impact, some would consider it positive.

Media actually doesn't have much difference except the level of participant interaction. Literature had insighted a number of extremely huge societal reactions. Film media and televised media has as well. We're only seeing the beginning of it with interactive media. A kid who shoots up his school and blames Doom is only the beginning. Targetting trajectory using Half-Life 2's physics is a whole new step that we can try to explain away, but will eventually have to face as we have with every aspect of media representation.

Unfortunately, we're advancing much faster than we can explain or justify our reactions.

#34 Awesome, now we just need a game for Bush's assasination ;)

(sorry if someone made this joke already, I didnt bother to read the thread)

#35 David.. That was pretty friggen deep

#36 Coming soon: The Lincoln Expansion pack!

(thanks Ben Garney for the witty commentary)

#37 Hmmm... You could make the arguement that movies, documentatries or books that have made money covering the JFK assassination were in bad taste as well, and profited from his death.

You could make all kinds of points. Personally, I don't like the idea of the game. However, I am VERY thankful that it's entirely legal for them to make it.

Freedom of speech.

#38 My feelings about this game aside, what I don't like about this game is that it gives the rest of game developers around the world a bad rep. It also spurred yet another show on some assanine news show about the evils of gaming and how "developers are pushing the boundaries of violence and sex and drugs again".

#39 Well- I do not think this game deserves so much attention. Market itself will deal with it and rule is simple- somebody prepairs a product- makes a game and if majority of his target audience does not like it- he looses. It's the best possible way to eliminate extremes- it does not involve raised voices or legal regulations which in most cases make more wrong then good.

#40 When you take a look at some thing in general, whether this, or anything else somebody might protest, they always fall into the exact same trap.

We live in a society where Free speech and expression overrules one persons sheltered pruduish lifestyle, and thus, when they react with abject horro to reality they only draw attention to it and give it more attention, thus making it more popular

if people want something to go away, from a bad game, to a simple board troll, the BEST result is always to ignore it.

Unless its something that would have the potential to put others at imedutae harm such as criminals and such..


A recent study showed that children that were rewarded with sweets whenthey were good eat more swets than proper food when they were older, and children that were rewarded with proper food ate a much healthier diet. Also, Disallowing children something simply made them desire itmore, whether it be fruit, vegetables, a specifc toy, etc

many of societies troubles could easily be removed with a few years of adjustment if peole as a whoela re willing to reclaim their brainpower and actually parenttheir children (but i guess that is too much to ask)

and yes, before you ask, i have two children, a nine year old son and a 4 year old daugter, both very wel behaved.