Life of a peon...
by Stephen Zepp · in RTS Starter Kit · 11/21/2004 (4:15 am) · 19 replies
This is a brainstorming thread, to collect ideas and desires for that unit we all know and love (and is critical to most RTS implementations): the Peon.
This is the guy that does everything that makes overall gameplay different from an FPS/RPG, and is probably the defining unit of the genre "RTS"--a generic worker that can be assigned tasks, build/repair your infrastructure, gather your resources, and otherwise make your city, so he does deserve a little respect.
Here are my initial thoughts on what types of things we need to consider for a community level implementation:
--generation
---orc model maybe, until something comes up
---ballpeen hammer as "weapon"
---generate 3 maybe on login
---purchase from town center (needs buildingDisplay gui implementation as well, in addition to some more basic RTSBuilding .dts shapes)
--set up "harvest" command mode, inputHandler.cc
---catch harvest command server side and process. minimal ai
----"move to site", "harvest", "carry to store", "flee attacker", "idle"
--set up "build/repair" command mode, inputHandler.cc
---catch "build/repair" server side, and process, minimal ai
----"move to site", "find closest idle worker", "build/repair", "flee", "idle"
What other basic "community resource" type functionality does a peon need?
Discussion is divine!
This is the guy that does everything that makes overall gameplay different from an FPS/RPG, and is probably the defining unit of the genre "RTS"--a generic worker that can be assigned tasks, build/repair your infrastructure, gather your resources, and otherwise make your city, so he does deserve a little respect.
Here are my initial thoughts on what types of things we need to consider for a community level implementation:
--generation
---orc model maybe, until something comes up
---ballpeen hammer as "weapon"
---generate 3 maybe on login
---purchase from town center (needs buildingDisplay gui implementation as well, in addition to some more basic RTSBuilding .dts shapes)
--set up "harvest" command mode, inputHandler.cc
---catch harvest command server side and process. minimal ai
----"move to site", "harvest", "carry to store", "flee attacker", "idle"
--set up "build/repair" command mode, inputHandler.cc
---catch "build/repair" server side, and process, minimal ai
----"move to site", "find closest idle worker", "build/repair", "flee", "idle"
What other basic "community resource" type functionality does a peon need?
Discussion is divine!
#2
In times of war can turn into a Minute Man, Partisan, whatever the time period may be.
Number of peons selected be game host in lobby.
All I can think of at the moment that wouldn't be in-depth, such as can become "smarter" by going to "school" or a "library".
11/21/2004 (9:29 am)
Needed to recruit militia. In times of war can turn into a Minute Man, Partisan, whatever the time period may be.
Number of peons selected be game host in lobby.
All I can think of at the moment that wouldn't be in-depth, such as can become "smarter" by going to "school" or a "library".
#3
11/22/2004 (4:27 am)
Addison's idea to recruit them may be a little game specific but I think the unit should at least have a rudimentary "fight" action/animation.
#4
11/22/2004 (5:08 am)
Monitoring the thread, taking down notes!
#5
I almost have the Foundry model done. I am finishing up the animation and will export and test it in game. If you want to use it for a resource, I'll donate it gladly. :)
Still have no clue what it could be used for. I just called it Foundry because I originally thought of it as producing mechanical units.
Edit: Updated image URL.
11/22/2004 (4:12 pm)
Stephen:I almost have the Foundry model done. I am finishing up the animation and will export and test it in game. If you want to use it for a resource, I'll donate it gladly. :)
Still have no clue what it could be used for. I just called it Foundry because I originally thought of it as producing mechanical units.
Edit: Updated image URL.
#6
As to what it could be used for--well, I don't think anyone really cares about accurate looks in this early prototyping, but I know I'm eagerly awaiting -any- building that I can use to differentiate with in testing!
I'll probably have this generate gold and stone, and/or use it to create weapons in a secondary resource level for equipping troops!
EDIT: It's not a biggie, but if you happen to make an icon for this (like you did for the first stock building), the gui I've put together is looking for a bigger image--say 48x48, or there is even just enough room for 64x64. If you want to go all out on it and make it really pretty, I think the total gui background size for that control is 148x80. Might want to trim just a couple pixels off that each way.
Not asking for one that detailed, don't get me wrong! 64x64 would be quite nice.
11/22/2004 (4:48 pm)
Well, lookin good!As to what it could be used for--well, I don't think anyone really cares about accurate looks in this early prototyping, but I know I'm eagerly awaiting -any- building that I can use to differentiate with in testing!
I'll probably have this generate gold and stone, and/or use it to create weapons in a secondary resource level for equipping troops!
EDIT: It's not a biggie, but if you happen to make an icon for this (like you did for the first stock building), the gui I've put together is looking for a bigger image--say 48x48, or there is even just enough room for 64x64. If you want to go all out on it and make it really pretty, I think the total gui background size for that control is 148x80. Might want to trim just a couple pixels off that each way.
Not asking for one that detailed, don't get me wrong! 64x64 would be quite nice.
#7
I just need to make the destroy animation and it is done, aside from two animation glitches.
The idle has a slight hiccup in it where the gear, while rotating, slips a little quickly. A little fine-tuning on that animation and it should be near perfect. But to be honest, I don't think anyone would notice the slip unless they were staring at it... like me. Eh.. well, I wanted to make sure it moved right.
The second animation problem moves so quick that, unless you were watching it like a hawk or knew how it was supposed to move, you wouldn't notice. The main cylinder rotates into view when building, but it rotates from the wrong direction. Funny thing is, in MilkShape, it rotates correctly. I'll have to look into that later, as well.
As far as the icon goes, what would you prefer or think would be average? I can recreate the icons for all the other units, too, while I am at it. Just let me try to finish this building. :)
11/22/2004 (5:08 pm)
Stephen:I just need to make the destroy animation and it is done, aside from two animation glitches.
The idle has a slight hiccup in it where the gear, while rotating, slips a little quickly. A little fine-tuning on that animation and it should be near perfect. But to be honest, I don't think anyone would notice the slip unless they were staring at it... like me. Eh.. well, I wanted to make sure it moved right.
The second animation problem moves so quick that, unless you were watching it like a hawk or knew how it was supposed to move, you wouldn't notice. The main cylinder rotates into view when building, but it rotates from the wrong direction. Funny thing is, in MilkShape, it rotates correctly. I'll have to look into that later, as well.
As far as the icon goes, what would you prefer or think would be average? I can recreate the icons for all the other units, too, while I am at it. Just let me try to finish this building. :)
#8
11/22/2004 (5:11 pm)
I'm going to post some screenshots in a different thread in just a sec, so you can see a reference. 
#9
11/22/2004 (8:08 pm)
We need a map generation system. I am thinking similar to the shape replicator so resources can be spawned. And allow random maps
#10
11/23/2004 (3:35 am)
@Anthony Yeah Stephen and I were discussing that the other day :) (actually a resource map of some sort) But thats aways away.
#11
I think Triggers would be best solution but I can't get them working just yet.
Scheduals might be a way to test an algorthm I just fear with too many units it could very easily slow down the system.
Any thoughts.
11/25/2004 (11:32 am)
OK the generation is done, now to conside Peon, thinking I see 2 way via scheduals and via triggers.I think Triggers would be best solution but I can't get them working just yet.
Scheduals might be a way to test an algorthm I just fear with too many units it could very easily slow down the system.
Any thoughts.
#12
I grabbed a copy of the snippet just released this week Artifical Intelligence Beginning, which is basically a very nice overhaul of AiPlayer. It looks very well thought out, and might be a good start towards minimalistic AI for both getting our peons actually doing stuff, as well as a possible set of hooks for a simplistic combat AI.
If you want to take a look at the code from the peon angle (move to assigned resource, idle a bit while harvesting, move back to storage building, rinse and repeat), I can go ahead and work out some minimalistic combat state handling.
11/25/2004 (2:59 pm)
@Anthony:I grabbed a copy of the snippet just released this week Artifical Intelligence Beginning, which is basically a very nice overhaul of AiPlayer. It looks very well thought out, and might be a good start towards minimalistic AI for both getting our peons actually doing stuff, as well as a possible set of hooks for a simplistic combat AI.
If you want to take a look at the code from the peon angle (move to assigned resource, idle a bit while harvesting, move back to storage building, rinse and repeat), I can go ahead and work out some minimalistic combat state handling.
#13
11/25/2004 (4:18 pm)
I will happy to make the village code =)
#14
@Josh: good input.
Anthony and I are working on different aspects of the "community" AI to try to provide some minimalistic examples of resource harvesting.
While I haven't seen his current implementation, I am reasonably sure that he's trying to implement being able to have the worker move back and forth between the resource and the town's "town center", but wanted to avoid using .schedule for any state checking (he mentioned that schedule can eat up a lot of resources).
I think what he is doing is setting up a sequence of triggers that change the Peon's current action state to simulate the idea of a scheduled "think()", without the schedule calls.
Given the assumption that schedule does eat up a lot of tick time (I don't know myself), do you see any other implementations for this behaviour?
If you think the assumption isn't really true (if scheduling is done right), then that input would be greatly appreciated as well! I'm hesitant to use triggers in a complex multi-player mission area without knowing any of the complications you may be aware of...but then again, Anthony may have a very nice imp worked out that we don't know about yet!
11/26/2004 (9:56 am)
(this post is in reference to Josh's comments in the Bug Reports area, in Triggers):@Josh: good input.
Anthony and I are working on different aspects of the "community" AI to try to provide some minimalistic examples of resource harvesting.
While I haven't seen his current implementation, I am reasonably sure that he's trying to implement being able to have the worker move back and forth between the resource and the town's "town center", but wanted to avoid using .schedule for any state checking (he mentioned that schedule can eat up a lot of resources).
I think what he is doing is setting up a sequence of triggers that change the Peon's current action state to simulate the idea of a scheduled "think()", without the schedule calls.
Given the assumption that schedule does eat up a lot of tick time (I don't know myself), do you see any other implementations for this behaviour?
If you think the assumption isn't really true (if scheduling is done right), then that input would be greatly appreciated as well! I'm hesitant to use triggers in a complex multi-player mission area without knowing any of the complications you may be aware of...but then again, Anthony may have a very nice imp worked out that we don't know about yet!
#15
Any modellers (besides John, he's got a lot on his plate still for this resource) have some time to put together a community "peon" character?
In a perfect world, he would be relatively basic model, carrying a hammer or an axe, with animations for building a new building, walking empty handed, walking carrying "something" (resources, don't need to go whole hog on the resource types unless you feel like it), and idle.
We have a free ballpeen hammer (from the Torque for Artists section) that we can probably use, but no models yet for the peon himself.
11/26/2004 (11:28 am)
Community request:Any modellers (besides John, he's got a lot on his plate still for this resource) have some time to put together a community "peon" character?
In a perfect world, he would be relatively basic model, carrying a hammer or an axe, with animations for building a new building, walking empty handed, walking carrying "something" (resources, don't need to go whole hog on the resource types unless you feel like it), and idle.
We have a free ballpeen hammer (from the Torque for Artists section) that we can probably use, but no models yet for the peon himself.
#16
An idea on the peon to simplify the requirements. For the state of having resources to carry back, just have a backpack or a wooden crate (for a rather exaggerated style) to symbolize the load. This keeps it generic enough to be any resource.
11/26/2004 (1:53 pm)
You have NO idea how much I have on me. :) I suppose I asked for it, though. I admit, it is quite a rush. :DAn idea on the peon to simplify the requirements. For the state of having resources to carry back, just have a backpack or a wooden crate (for a rather exaggerated style) to symbolize the load. This keeps it generic enough to be any resource.
#17
11/26/2004 (4:29 pm)
Oh come on John, one more lil thing can't hurt :)
#18
Actually, I'll be well on my way of knocking some of the 2D art out of the way if I can get my copy of Paint Shop Pro 7 Anniversary Edition to install. The .msi installer seems to be going kaput right as it starts.
11/26/2004 (4:49 pm)
Bah! Away with you! Shoo! ;)Actually, I'll be well on my way of knocking some of the 2D art out of the way if I can get my copy of Paint Shop Pro 7 Anniversary Edition to install. The .msi installer seems to be going kaput right as it starts.
#19
animations
idle - doing nothing
walk - normal walk
gathering - maybe bent over collecting something
depositing - walking with a bag/box/barrel of something
death - death animation
right now I have the basic gathering logic in. . . . I have a tree from the standard shapes, but if someone could make a generic rock, I could make the acompaning texture for gold/iron varieties. and we could get the resource system advailable for the commuity
11/26/2004 (5:41 pm)
The peon should be some generic villager, 300 polyies a caveman or something even a box man 4 now is cool.animations
idle - doing nothing
walk - normal walk
gathering - maybe bent over collecting something
depositing - walking with a bag/box/barrel of something
death - death animation
right now I have the basic gathering logic in. . . . I have a tree from the standard shapes, but if someone could make a generic rock, I could make the acompaning texture for gold/iron varieties. and we could get the resource system advailable for the commuity
Torque Owner John McGlamory
Cardboard Box Creations
If you're planning to work on this as a resource, I could most likely help with the Town Center and any GUI art that needs done. I could finish and donate my Foundry model, which was what I was going to do anyway.) I would offer to work on the peon itself, but my animation skills aren't all that grand, but I could give it a try if needed.