Fruitbats Medieval/fantasy content pack
by FruitBatInShades · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 11/17/2004 (12:38 am) · 67 replies
Medieval Game Textures now creative commons
The crazy bat has put down his melon gun and given up on paypal and decided to release his medieval textures to the world under the creative commons license. That means you can download and use them as you like if you make sure I'm in the credits and you don't resell them as textures.
www.ghostskin.com/Gallery/Medieval_Game_Textures.aspx
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I now have quite a few models/textures available for the content pack. What I really wnat now is some feedback on how to approach building the pack. I have a few ideas but would like to know exactly how people would like to recieve their content.
No humorous jibes about getting all 100mb for free, I've had enough of those already. If anybody says "I want everything in one, everything you've suggested" I will not be amused! :oP
The content I have is made up of a series of resources, what I want to know is how would you like it seperated and how detailed would you like it?
Interiors
1. How detailed do you want interiors? At present the buildings are empty so you can add all your own internal objects and details. Is this how you want it or would you prefer themed buildings to be full of themed stuff?
Empty: You can make the building very individual and make the same shell look like different places
Populated: You can drop and go, but it will look the same as everyone elses
2. I assume everyone wants the map files?
3. Would you like a construction kit and guide for Quark?
This would consist of a guide how to build maps using the supplied textures, my cheats for workflow, my special brushes for quick addition of objects etc. This would be a seperate pack.
Textures
I have put a LOT of work into my textures and do not want them to become public domain. I would like to split the content into 2 sections
1. The textures as supplied at 512x512 and 256x256 (and 128x128 for those small areas), plus component textures as required.
2. Source artwork. The source artwork would be supplied in PSP and photoshop format and would enable people who have modded the engine to take advantage of transparent interiors, bump mapping etc. I intend to supply bump maps as part of the main texture set but probably not on release.
3. Copyright issues, I have put in post below the texture copyright, can you give me your opinions on whether it seems reasonable and if not, what would? I have found my work on the web edited and resold before and that is not amusing.
Components
I tend to break my models after building to seperate items that can change the look of a building. The farm houses for instance have extensions that can be added or removed. This can be done in the world editor or in quark. If someone could implement a snap to face in the world editor I would love you forever (or not, depend on which is more of an incentive)!
I have also created what I have called 'facias'. Which are the fronts of buildings that are around 40-80 polys so you can build massive towns with low impact on the framerate. These are those flat buildings you often get in games that you cannot enter. These also have lots on drop in bits that change the look.
My entire ethos with this pack is to enable you to build diverse medieval towns/cities which look as diverse as real medieval towns do (I live in one :oD )
Updates
I intend to supply updates for free. Updates will include bumpmaps, changed textures, much needed new textures, improved/fixed interiors etc. This will not mean everything I produce on this theme forever but anything I do whilst bored or things I improve. Is this a good idea?
Here are a few links to the stuff on garage about this pack if you've not been following its development
History
History
History
History
All ideas and opinions greatfully recieved. I want to know what you would find best for your game creation.
Please bear in mind these models are for condensed content and are therefore low poly and all shots are in direct sunlight with NO special lighting
The crazy bat has put down his melon gun and given up on paypal and decided to release his medieval textures to the world under the creative commons license. That means you can download and use them as you like if you make sure I'm in the credits and you don't resell them as textures.
www.ghostskin.com/Gallery/Medieval_Game_Textures.aspx
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I now have quite a few models/textures available for the content pack. What I really wnat now is some feedback on how to approach building the pack. I have a few ideas but would like to know exactly how people would like to recieve their content.
No humorous jibes about getting all 100mb for free, I've had enough of those already. If anybody says "I want everything in one, everything you've suggested" I will not be amused! :oP
The content I have is made up of a series of resources, what I want to know is how would you like it seperated and how detailed would you like it?
Interiors
1. How detailed do you want interiors? At present the buildings are empty so you can add all your own internal objects and details. Is this how you want it or would you prefer themed buildings to be full of themed stuff?
Empty: You can make the building very individual and make the same shell look like different places
Populated: You can drop and go, but it will look the same as everyone elses
2. I assume everyone wants the map files?
3. Would you like a construction kit and guide for Quark?
This would consist of a guide how to build maps using the supplied textures, my cheats for workflow, my special brushes for quick addition of objects etc. This would be a seperate pack.
Textures
I have put a LOT of work into my textures and do not want them to become public domain. I would like to split the content into 2 sections
1. The textures as supplied at 512x512 and 256x256 (and 128x128 for those small areas), plus component textures as required.
2. Source artwork. The source artwork would be supplied in PSP and photoshop format and would enable people who have modded the engine to take advantage of transparent interiors, bump mapping etc. I intend to supply bump maps as part of the main texture set but probably not on release.
3. Copyright issues, I have put in post below the texture copyright, can you give me your opinions on whether it seems reasonable and if not, what would? I have found my work on the web edited and resold before and that is not amusing.
Components
I tend to break my models after building to seperate items that can change the look of a building. The farm houses for instance have extensions that can be added or removed. This can be done in the world editor or in quark. If someone could implement a snap to face in the world editor I would love you forever (or not, depend on which is more of an incentive)!
I have also created what I have called 'facias'. Which are the fronts of buildings that are around 40-80 polys so you can build massive towns with low impact on the framerate. These are those flat buildings you often get in games that you cannot enter. These also have lots on drop in bits that change the look.
My entire ethos with this pack is to enable you to build diverse medieval towns/cities which look as diverse as real medieval towns do (I live in one :oD )
Updates
I intend to supply updates for free. Updates will include bumpmaps, changed textures, much needed new textures, improved/fixed interiors etc. This will not mean everything I produce on this theme forever but anything I do whilst bored or things I improve. Is this a good idea?
Here are a few links to the stuff on garage about this pack if you've not been following its development
History
History
History
History
All ideas and opinions greatfully recieved. I want to know what you would find best for your game creation.
Please bear in mind these models are for condensed content and are therefore low poly and all shots are in direct sunlight with NO special lighting
#2
You will get much better graphics doing DTS as DIF doesn't like to skin small objects. If I were in your shoes I would look at a more generic model of DTS and use different skins at load time. Most RTS buildings are pretty generic so you should be able to create a base set of poly models that you can make look majorly different just by changing the skins. Go through your concept art and look for common features, see what you find.
11/17/2004 (10:34 am)
Interesting requirements you have there stephen, not along this packs line at all. If I wasn't so busy with this pack I;d offer help but the problem is that each of those items need to to UV mapped and skinned which is a LONG process and I don't really see too much common ground on RTS for a modelling pack.You will get much better graphics doing DTS as DIF doesn't like to skin small objects. If I were in your shoes I would look at a more generic model of DTS and use different skins at load time. Most RTS buildings are pretty generic so you should be able to create a base set of poly models that you can make look majorly different just by changing the skins. Go through your concept art and look for common features, see what you find.
#3
Interiors:
1. Empty buildings are fine. I'll be wanting to fit them out myself in any case.
2. Map files are essential of course.
3. Construction kit sounds interesting but not essential
Textures:
1. The highest resolution you have is fine. I can always downscale them but it's handy to have the intermediate sizes too.
2. The bump maps sound like a great thing to have! But not essential.
3. I hate to say it but no matter what license you come up with it's not going to make much difference to people who decide to pirate it. I sympathise but I don't think your license gives you any more real protection than a more generic one.
Components:
Your building-block approach sounds ideal.
Updates:
* Bump-maps sound like a real value-add
* Otherwise I'd be quite satisfied with just bug fixes in updates
11/17/2004 (5:29 pm)
FruitBatInShades, this content pack sounds ideal for me. To answer your questions:Interiors:
1. Empty buildings are fine. I'll be wanting to fit them out myself in any case.
2. Map files are essential of course.
3. Construction kit sounds interesting but not essential
Textures:
1. The highest resolution you have is fine. I can always downscale them but it's handy to have the intermediate sizes too.
2. The bump maps sound like a great thing to have! But not essential.
3. I hate to say it but no matter what license you come up with it's not going to make much difference to people who decide to pirate it. I sympathise but I don't think your license gives you any more real protection than a more generic one.
Components:
Your building-block approach sounds ideal.
Updates:
* Bump-maps sound like a real value-add
* Otherwise I'd be quite satisfied with just bug fixes in updates
#4
11/18/2004 (1:39 am)
@Zik: thanks for the feedback :
#5
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NOW IS THE TIME TO SAY WHAT YOU WANT IN THIS PACK
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Some of the textures and associated brushes for the FlatWall texture set.
Small Farm House with 2 Add-ons, a shed and a lean-to.
Errr....A tavern!
Some of the facias.
I have mainly been working with the tudor texture set at the moment, but I'm moving onto the castle one as soon I get a few more tudor style models done.
11/18/2004 (2:11 pm)
Here are a few low res secreenshots to give you an idea of whats going on. The textures look a lot cleaner in game, but torque has this nasty habit of blurring textures on surfaces past 45 degrees! ***********************************************
NOW IS THE TIME TO SAY WHAT YOU WANT IN THIS PACK
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Some of the textures and associated brushes for the FlatWall texture set.Small Farm House with 2 Add-ons, a shed and a lean-to.Errr....A tavern!Some of the facias.I have mainly been working with the tudor texture set at the moment, but I'm moving onto the castle one as soon I get a few more tudor style models done.
#6
They would fit -very- nicely into the RTS Pack stuff.
11/18/2004 (2:47 pm)
Some very very nice stuff...I just wish they were .dts, hehehe..They would fit -very- nicely into the RTS Pack stuff.
#7
11/18/2004 (2:48 pm)
Hey Stephen, you could buy the texture packs and use them on your UV maps ;)
#8
Things like, basic buildings, modularized corridors/walls, stairways, piping... should be very simple to construct and texture....
Having it all made up and working in the .dif format would definitely be worth buying as a lot of people have problems with the whole .dif construction process.
On a separate note, it would be cool if you could set up polls here in the forum and see what themes/genres people are interested in...
Something like this:
What time period is your current project set in?
1. Past... medieval fantasy, castles, etc.
2. Past... WW2 buildings, houses
3. Present Day... modern architecture, city buildings
4. Future... city buildings, lots of mechanical details/pipes, etc.
11/18/2004 (11:16 pm)
I would be interested in seeing some modern architeture too... if not inlcuded in this pack, then in another one.Things like, basic buildings, modularized corridors/walls, stairways, piping... should be very simple to construct and texture....
Having it all made up and working in the .dif format would definitely be worth buying as a lot of people have problems with the whole .dif construction process.
On a separate note, it would be cool if you could set up polls here in the forum and see what themes/genres people are interested in...
Something like this:
What time period is your current project set in?
1. Past... medieval fantasy, castles, etc.
2. Past... WW2 buildings, houses
3. Present Day... modern architecture, city buildings
4. Future... city buildings, lots of mechanical details/pipes, etc.
#9
If they overlap frame rates dive or torque crashes, and the lighting routines have difficulty with objects that are not tightly sealed.
11/19/2004 (3:46 am)
@Will: You can't really build it like that under torque. The DIF format is a bit, er, sensitive and until some nice person comes along and writes a few routines to connect faces in the world editor, you won't be able to just plug things together.If they overlap frame rates dive or torque crashes, and the lighting routines have difficulty with objects that are not tightly sealed.
#10
If you are thinking of selling these models I think you need to put in a bit more work adding some detail beause these models are pretty much just flat boxes. To really make them look good you need things like door frames, window frames, ledges, overhangs, thicker framing, and other tweaks that will allow the DIF to catch on lighting and thus create varied shadow and lighting that creates the illusion of form and a suspension of disbelief.
Also what scale have you build these at? 32 units equals 1 meter or something different?
Speaking of scale you might want to fix the height of the ground floor. It looks stunted and thus breaks the suspension of disbelief beause the scale is not visually consistent.
11/19/2004 (6:45 am)
@FruitBatInShadesIf you are thinking of selling these models I think you need to put in a bit more work adding some detail beause these models are pretty much just flat boxes. To really make them look good you need things like door frames, window frames, ledges, overhangs, thicker framing, and other tweaks that will allow the DIF to catch on lighting and thus create varied shadow and lighting that creates the illusion of form and a suspension of disbelief.
Also what scale have you build these at? 32 units equals 1 meter or something different?
Speaking of scale you might want to fix the height of the ground floor. It looks stunted and thus breaks the suspension of disbelief beause the scale is not visually consistent.
#11
I would like to see textures only content pack, seeing as our models will be different from Torque style interiors and models. Having access to a set of textures with a common theme would be a great way, for us, to safe some time and to get a proof of concept demo done on time (in our case) and these textures could even be used in the final production (the textures in the shots above ain't bad).
Well, this is just an idea for possible content packs without the models, especially in the case of Torque interiors, which might be cheaper (if models excluded) and could be useful to people not working with Torque, or even people wanting to create their own DTS buildings.
11/20/2004 (11:51 am)
We are developing a new project in another engine than Torque and do all our art content in 3DSMax, including interiors as the engine we use don't support tools like QuArk, etc.I would like to see textures only content pack, seeing as our models will be different from Torque style interiors and models. Having access to a set of textures with a common theme would be a great way, for us, to safe some time and to get a proof of concept demo done on time (in our case) and these textures could even be used in the final production (the textures in the shots above ain't bad).
Well, this is just an idea for possible content packs without the models, especially in the case of Torque interiors, which might be cheaper (if models excluded) and could be useful to people not working with Torque, or even people wanting to create their own DTS buildings.
#12
They look like flat models cos they are screen shots! The buildings together are facias and meant to be flat, the wall pieces are all modelled accurately, it just doesn't show up in the screen shots.
The models are all designed to be low poly, and if used with bump mapping will attain the effects your after. This pack is meant to populate a world (i.e. cities too) and needs to be low poly to enable a street full of building to render well. You can always edit the models supplied in the pack to add each individual beam, but on the simple tavern thats adds 368 extra viewable faces to a model that is 400 at detail level 1.
To individually model each beam would mean that it would not be possible to build densly packed towns. The tavern would go from 400 - 800, halving what you render instantly if the same process was done on all buildings. Some of the more detailed buildings would go from about 800 polys to upwards of 2000
They are all modelled at the same scale, each floor is 128 units with the internal floor space being 96 units.
What do you mean by stunted and not visually consistant?
@Leslie:
The textures are available seperately, please emal me for more details and yours specifications. I am also preparing a special pack for other engines I will chat with you about if you contact me :)
11/21/2004 (3:24 am)
@ L Foster: They look like flat models cos they are screen shots! The buildings together are facias and meant to be flat, the wall pieces are all modelled accurately, it just doesn't show up in the screen shots.
The models are all designed to be low poly, and if used with bump mapping will attain the effects your after. This pack is meant to populate a world (i.e. cities too) and needs to be low poly to enable a street full of building to render well. You can always edit the models supplied in the pack to add each individual beam, but on the simple tavern thats adds 368 extra viewable faces to a model that is 400 at detail level 1.
To individually model each beam would mean that it would not be possible to build densly packed towns. The tavern would go from 400 - 800, halving what you render instantly if the same process was done on all buildings. Some of the more detailed buildings would go from about 800 polys to upwards of 2000
They are all modelled at the same scale, each floor is 128 units with the internal floor space being 96 units.
What do you mean by stunted and not visually consistant?
@Leslie:
The textures are available seperately, please emal me for more details and yours specifications. I am also preparing a special pack for other engines I will chat with you about if you contact me :)
#13
Here is a shot of a new dingy tavern (place where you don't want to go unarmed ;)
Here is a walled house. Need to brighten it all up. I like dingy and lights casting shadows but its not to everyones taste. This model weighs in at 2000 polys.
11/26/2004 (3:11 am)
After a few conversations with Tim, I have started adding a lot more detail into the models. Still keeping the poly count down but adding those things that stand out. I think I've found a good balance (Have a look at the panelled room). Like I've said before I'm trying to get a good balance between detail and memory usage. These buildings are designed to be densely packed together in street scenes so a good balance is essential.Here is a shot of a new dingy tavern (place where you don't want to go unarmed ;)
Here is a walled house. Need to brighten it all up. I like dingy and lights casting shadows but its not to everyones taste. This model weighs in at 2000 polys.
#14
The Coaching Inn
This is a coaching inn, where weary travellers stop and water their horses and carriages. It has 3 bars, coach house, stables, smithy, brewery and lots of bedrooms. Theres 32 rooms (in the loose term) all together. Its gonna be a big one, about 6000 faces I reckon. The base structure is 1500 before I start detailing it so I'm expecting 4000-6000 in the end. I'm gonna do something else for the next few days and come back to this, just so I can do something easy, I'm going blind from all the lines!
11/27/2004 (3:09 pm)
This is the latest model. its a BIG one. I haven't even started the interior yet and its taken two days. Blue and white bits are those I haven't even touched yet. The Coaching Inn
This is a coaching inn, where weary travellers stop and water their horses and carriages. It has 3 bars, coach house, stables, smithy, brewery and lots of bedrooms. Theres 32 rooms (in the loose term) all together. Its gonna be a big one, about 6000 faces I reckon. The base structure is 1500 before I start detailing it so I'm expecting 4000-6000 in the end. I'm gonna do something else for the next few days and come back to this, just so I can do something easy, I'm going blind from all the lines!
#15
I like the last interior shot on the previous post... nice details... and it has a "real" feeling to it.
Keep it up. :)
My only critique is the current lighting makes everything look a little dull/drab. Maybe if you light some lanterns in and around the building to cast an orange glow across everything...?
11/27/2004 (7:56 pm)
They look good...I like the last interior shot on the previous post... nice details... and it has a "real" feeling to it.
Keep it up. :)
My only critique is the current lighting makes everything look a little dull/drab. Maybe if you light some lanterns in and around the building to cast an orange glow across everything...?
#16
Thanks for the feedback
11/28/2004 (12:18 am)
@Will: everyone has commented on the lighting. I'm gonna play around. I try to be mr realistic and that means low lighting and reflection for that time period. Still gonna go back and add more details to the walled house, just need to get a few specific textures first, should add to the reailty a bit more I hope :)Thanks for the feedback
#17
The staircase looks totally oversized, lets scale them to normal.
If i have an advice...lets insert a normall sized human modell near of your interiors when you are trying out your modells in TGE. It helps to take the propotions on the right way.
To others who wanna to get DTS content :
Im planning to release the whole art content of the cancelled King Arthur : Pendragon Chronicles, but im not sure that some (or at least a few) peoples will to buy it, just becouse its need (for a good visual result) in the engine to built in the Lighting Pack. We are used them all together, (lighting pack + dts) and its resulted a very good and high visual quality. IMO even higher than DIF can do ever....
Some Screenshots Are Here
edited : grammar
11/28/2004 (2:38 am)
To the Bat :The staircase looks totally oversized, lets scale them to normal.
If i have an advice...lets insert a normall sized human modell near of your interiors when you are trying out your modells in TGE. It helps to take the propotions on the right way.
To others who wanna to get DTS content :
Im planning to release the whole art content of the cancelled King Arthur : Pendragon Chronicles, but im not sure that some (or at least a few) peoples will to buy it, just becouse its need (for a good visual result) in the engine to built in the Lighting Pack. We are used them all together, (lighting pack + dts) and its resulted a very good and high visual quality. IMO even higher than DIF can do ever....
Some Screenshots Are Here
edited : grammar
#18
11/29/2004 (1:44 am)
Ok, one improved and scaled staircase and bright lighting. Problem with bright lighting is it washes out all the details :(
#19
11/29/2004 (7:31 am)
Very nice work bat. On my wish list would be some modern architecture. I'm a beginner so the construction files would be very helpful as I try to figure out how to do my own stuff.
#20
That's why I think some point lights would work better... like the lanterns I suggested... just to create some areas of contrast, without "washing" everything with a bright ambient or directional light.
Lanterns, candles, light from a window, anything like that would help... still, it looks good as it is.
11/29/2004 (11:25 am)
"Problem with bright lighting is it washes out all the details"That's why I think some point lights would work better... like the lanterns I suggested... just to create some areas of contrast, without "washing" everything with a bright ambient or directional light.
Lanterns, candles, light from a window, anything like that would help... still, it looks good as it is.
Torque 3D Owner Stephen Zepp
For example, in the RTS starter pack, you can have players build new buildings in the game, by purchasing them and then placing them, much like other AAA RTS games. The main problem is that the design, for a variety of reasons, uses .dts models instead of .dif interiors.
We also need .dts models due to their ability to be modified/extended during run time. Part of our functionality is to have buildings that can "sense" other nearby buildings, and modify themselves based on context--a tower standing all alone for example would have 4 solid walls, but a tower that is placed on day 1, and then has a wall placed perpendicular to it on day 3 would automatically change that "side" of the tower to allow units to move from the top of the wall into the tower.
EDIT: I just went back and re-read your initial post, and this is pretty much exactly what you talked about in your "Components" section, but is designed to allow these changes to happen during player's game play, not during a level designer's workflow.
Obviously, I doubt that these requirements/options apply to most of your proposed customer base, so I wouldn't ask you to change your entire pack direction, just wanted to provide some feedback.