Team Needed
by Michael Brumby · in Jobs · 11/14/2004 (2:24 pm) · 15 replies
Well, Basicaly i need to assemble a team for a Fantasy 2D MMORPG all applicants are welcomed but must have a desire to make an mmorpg. Very little is confirmed in what the game will consist of so if u want your mark on this game email me at bbamspong@gmail.com or reply to this thread.
Main Talents needed
Programmers
Artists
However Anyone is welcomed to apply for any position they feel may make a valuable contribution to an MMORPG.
Main Talents needed
Programmers
Artists
However Anyone is welcomed to apply for any position they feel may make a valuable contribution to an MMORPG.
#2
I would be surprised if anyone with any sense or talent would respond to a post where the person wanting to assemble the team cannot demonstrate the ability to communicate using the english language.
11/14/2004 (6:02 pm)
I only want to add that 'you' is spelled Y-O-U and not UI would be surprised if anyone with any sense or talent would respond to a post where the person wanting to assemble the team cannot demonstrate the ability to communicate using the english language.
#3
11/14/2004 (6:07 pm)
Use full words, and do NOT abbreviate, EVER, When proposing an idea. I would also suggest taking off the "gamer advanced" from your profile, because it appears like you have no talents, and that was to make you look better. I want to know what games you have designed in the past to suddenly make you so experienced, too. It doesn't appear that you have thought out anything in this project yet, but you still expect people to support it?!?
#4
To George "Creator" Goldstien I will say this, Ok i abbreviate occasionaly it just seems to happen from all the forum posting that i do, and by Gamer Advanced i meant that iv been playing games since i was an ickly kiddy, Not that i have any real experience in creating games. Hell if u want to challenge that opinion of what i meant by gamer advanced just open up a game and i will give u a game.
*4) Spontaneous. It appears as if you were playing Diablo 2 last night and thought, "Hey, the people at GG will help me make a game like this. Only it'll be better! It'll have more badguys, items, etc." This type of thought tends to get looked down upon here, because I doubt you understand the commitment an MMORPG takes. Everyone on my MMORPG team (About 35 people) spends 4-10 hours a day on it. Are you willing to do this for the next 2 years? I suppose the better question to ask is: Can you find people that are willing to do it for the next 2 years?*
Right i can infact prove that this is not a spontaneous decision as i have been planning this for about a year now however there has been a real difficult of aquiring a programmer as i have already got artists that have VOLENTEERED to help me with this project.. Which brings me onto my next point and that is that I do not plan on paying anyone for this as i do not have a set deadline and it is a free time project not something that i expect to make ANY money as it will be a free game to play as there are few of these about that are of any quality. I already have an entire community waiting for this game and i alreay have the background and some concept art done. However i have not yet put these on to an internet site as i cannot afford any decent hosting as yet that will come once a team is assembled.
11/15/2004 (8:04 am)
Ok well To George "Creator" Goldstien I will say this, Ok i abbreviate occasionaly it just seems to happen from all the forum posting that i do, and by Gamer Advanced i meant that iv been playing games since i was an ickly kiddy, Not that i have any real experience in creating games. Hell if u want to challenge that opinion of what i meant by gamer advanced just open up a game and i will give u a game.
*4) Spontaneous. It appears as if you were playing Diablo 2 last night and thought, "Hey, the people at GG will help me make a game like this. Only it'll be better! It'll have more badguys, items, etc." This type of thought tends to get looked down upon here, because I doubt you understand the commitment an MMORPG takes. Everyone on my MMORPG team (About 35 people) spends 4-10 hours a day on it. Are you willing to do this for the next 2 years? I suppose the better question to ask is: Can you find people that are willing to do it for the next 2 years?*
Right i can infact prove that this is not a spontaneous decision as i have been planning this for about a year now however there has been a real difficult of aquiring a programmer as i have already got artists that have VOLENTEERED to help me with this project.. Which brings me onto my next point and that is that I do not plan on paying anyone for this as i do not have a set deadline and it is a free time project not something that i expect to make ANY money as it will be a free game to play as there are few of these about that are of any quality. I already have an entire community waiting for this game and i alreay have the background and some concept art done. However i have not yet put these on to an internet site as i cannot afford any decent hosting as yet that will come once a team is assembled.
#5
And the reason for this is that coders are picky about the teams that they come aboard, which is the reason why George and Joe here were pointing out some of the things that you should improve upon in your posting.
Despite the fact that you're 16, you can probably get some things done if you're of the right mind(I don't know you so I can't say). However, if you want to attract more people, you need to demonstrate better grammar, because most of the people here get turned off by it. Defending lazy grammar is even worse. It doesn't have to be perfect, just show an effort at proper communication.
Also, George is right about the web presence. Put up a website, buy a domain name(it's easy to do these days), and use that. Tell people about your idea, or else people won't flock to you. Noone likes to be surprised when they're working on stuff- talk about your project. It's not top secret, noone is going to steal your idea, and it's really not the idea that counts anyway, it's the implementation.
Take a look at how Sanctus Legacy Online is pimping their project here on the forums, and take a page from them. But above all, if you are serious, then look and act serious on the forums, and you'll fare much better.
Also, it helps to have a lot of your ideas on paper as design documents. I assume you have those written out? If not, then don't bother with getting a team until you have information to give them once they join. Otherwise, they'll see it as a waste of their time waiting for you to give them tasks, and they'll walk.
11/15/2004 (9:59 am)
Quote:there has been a real difficult of aquiring a programmer
And the reason for this is that coders are picky about the teams that they come aboard, which is the reason why George and Joe here were pointing out some of the things that you should improve upon in your posting.
Despite the fact that you're 16, you can probably get some things done if you're of the right mind(I don't know you so I can't say). However, if you want to attract more people, you need to demonstrate better grammar, because most of the people here get turned off by it. Defending lazy grammar is even worse. It doesn't have to be perfect, just show an effort at proper communication.
Also, George is right about the web presence. Put up a website, buy a domain name(it's easy to do these days), and use that. Tell people about your idea, or else people won't flock to you. Noone likes to be surprised when they're working on stuff- talk about your project. It's not top secret, noone is going to steal your idea, and it's really not the idea that counts anyway, it's the implementation.
Take a look at how Sanctus Legacy Online is pimping their project here on the forums, and take a page from them. But above all, if you are serious, then look and act serious on the forums, and you'll fare much better.
Also, it helps to have a lot of your ideas on paper as design documents. I assume you have those written out? If not, then don't bother with getting a team until you have information to give them once they join. Otherwise, they'll see it as a waste of their time waiting for you to give them tasks, and they'll walk.
#6
Thanks for elaborating a bit for me.
@Michael
Are you saying (or implying really) that people don't want money on something they spend hours a day? Or are you expecting people to spend 1 hour a day and work the next 20 years on it?
It's also confusing that a "whole community" would be waiting for a project when you haven't got a website, any design docs, or even any info as to what this game will be concerning. It costs less to put up a website for a WHOLE YEAR, than to pay for 1 months worth of decent internet service. I'm guessing that it's 2 weeks of allowance for you or less than a single day's worth of work in a Summer job.
May I ask which community? And no, your local highschool doesn't count.
Geocities.com will host your images for FREE! I'd like to see them.
You also said something about this being a low quality game. Trust me, there is no low quality MMORPG. If you are really willing to spend that much time on something, you're going to be damn sure it's great, or at least the best that you can do.
That was not my argument about the gamer-advanced section of your profile. It makes it appear as if you are inexperienced (which you are, but it's still better to create the illusion that you aren't) and you are trying to make yourself look better. This creates the opposite effect, and some people will be scared away from a project as large as this if you look inexperienced.
I'm working on Sanctus Legacy Online right now (www.sanctuslegacy.com), but I didn't just start there (let alone lead the team). You need some experience. And so I leave you with this advice.
1) Start SMALL! I've said this to everyone who's beginning to start in the game industry, and it was said to me. Do some simple 2d applications first, then work your way up. An enormous MMORPG should be the last thing on the list.
2) Be more professional - especially on the forums.
11/15/2004 (12:19 pm)
@TedThanks for elaborating a bit for me.
@Michael
Quote:Which brings me onto my next point and that is that I do not plan on paying anyone for this as i do not have a set deadline and it is a free time project not something that i expect to make ANY money as it will be a free game to play as there are few of these about that are of any quality. I already have an entire community waiting for this game and i alreay have the background and some concept art done. However i have not yet put these on to an internet site as i cannot afford any decent hosting as yet that will come once a team is assembled.
Are you saying (or implying really) that people don't want money on something they spend hours a day? Or are you expecting people to spend 1 hour a day and work the next 20 years on it?
It's also confusing that a "whole community" would be waiting for a project when you haven't got a website, any design docs, or even any info as to what this game will be concerning. It costs less to put up a website for a WHOLE YEAR, than to pay for 1 months worth of decent internet service. I'm guessing that it's 2 weeks of allowance for you or less than a single day's worth of work in a Summer job.
May I ask which community? And no, your local highschool doesn't count.
Geocities.com will host your images for FREE! I'd like to see them.
You also said something about this being a low quality game. Trust me, there is no low quality MMORPG. If you are really willing to spend that much time on something, you're going to be damn sure it's great, or at least the best that you can do.
That was not my argument about the gamer-advanced section of your profile. It makes it appear as if you are inexperienced (which you are, but it's still better to create the illusion that you aren't) and you are trying to make yourself look better. This creates the opposite effect, and some people will be scared away from a project as large as this if you look inexperienced.
I'm working on Sanctus Legacy Online right now (www.sanctuslegacy.com), but I didn't just start there (let alone lead the team). You need some experience. And so I leave you with this advice.
1) Start SMALL! I've said this to everyone who's beginning to start in the game industry, and it was said to me. Do some simple 2d applications first, then work your way up. An enormous MMORPG should be the last thing on the list.
2) Be more professional - especially on the forums.
#7
11/15/2004 (3:30 pm)
I am curious as to how someone who can't afford web hosting will be able to afford multiple dedicated servers strategically located throughout the country, or possibly the world, to allow users access to this MMORPG...
#9
11/15/2004 (3:51 pm)
I think that you can pay for web hosting. It should be around $20/year for a basic package, which is all you really need. Good question though. Like I said, it was spontaneous and (if not spontaneous) poorly thought out.
#10
A persistent world is harder, because honestly, it's not such a travesty is Battle.Net goes down for a few hours(though I'm sure Blizzard treats it like it is). For a PW, it can mean a lot of cancelled subscriptions. So what you need is 24/7 tech support, or a paging system if you're very brave(or foolish).
And that doesn't even get to the server itself. If you go the route of a commercial cluster server(EMC Aviion clusters are nice), then you're talking anywhere from $50,000 to $500,000 USD for the cluster(2 servers). Even at the low end, it's a lot of money. Or, you can build your own, and I only recommend it if you know how not to build a server. For that, you can build something good for about $2,000 USD, though it won't have EMC's fancy fiber-to-the-disk bandwidth. Now that your server is made, hopefully you have your network topology in order, with plenty of security built in, because as soon as the game goes live, so will the hackers, and be prepared for them to win(not all the time, but they'll score a hit here and there if you're on the ball).
As you can see, the problems can become depressing, and that's why people post on here with all these words of caution. A PW isn't just a game, it's a service-it's a business. Even if it's free, you still have all these considerations, and one more you don't have if you charge for your game: Where do you get the money to host it? And if you do want to charge for it, then you have to understand all the billing problems that will come with it.
All I'm saying is that if you can't look at these questions and answer or even understand the implications of them before you start, then don't start. And if you do start, be prepared for a long and very hard road. I can tell you from experience that TGE only holds your hand so much until you get into areas of PW development where you wind up doing months of research to find answers(sometimes the wrong ones, and I don't know how much time I've lost in research as opposed to pure development time). And I'm still doing research because I need to implement certain things in my game, and I only find bits and pieces of what I need to know here and there in the bookstore.
I spend probably 20 hours a week at a minimum learning for my game. Development time is preciously low, I don't have enough people on my team even though the ones I have are very good at what they do, and my financial situation prevents me from paying them even a fraction of what they deserve, if at all. Not to mention the stress from daily life and dealing with things that tear you away from the project. Doubt- did I mention that you'll be doubting yourself sometimes? And the doubt from outside won't help you, so you better have a strong will, and the knowledge to back it up.
In other words, you're probably better off joining someone else's team first, and then doing your own thing once you know the lay of the land better down the road. Wish I could call these words of wisdom, but I won't know until my game hits beta and everyone tells me if I'm a fool or not...
11/15/2004 (4:21 pm)
Yeah, the money part is the killer. Even if you don't want to charge your customers and keep your game free, you still have to pay for your servers. Blizzard, which runs the free Battle.Net service, has to pay for all of the servers that run that service, even if they don't charge for it. And that's more than bandwidth: Hardware, software, tech support, electricity, rent, etc.A persistent world is harder, because honestly, it's not such a travesty is Battle.Net goes down for a few hours(though I'm sure Blizzard treats it like it is). For a PW, it can mean a lot of cancelled subscriptions. So what you need is 24/7 tech support, or a paging system if you're very brave(or foolish).
And that doesn't even get to the server itself. If you go the route of a commercial cluster server(EMC Aviion clusters are nice), then you're talking anywhere from $50,000 to $500,000 USD for the cluster(2 servers). Even at the low end, it's a lot of money. Or, you can build your own, and I only recommend it if you know how not to build a server. For that, you can build something good for about $2,000 USD, though it won't have EMC's fancy fiber-to-the-disk bandwidth. Now that your server is made, hopefully you have your network topology in order, with plenty of security built in, because as soon as the game goes live, so will the hackers, and be prepared for them to win(not all the time, but they'll score a hit here and there if you're on the ball).
As you can see, the problems can become depressing, and that's why people post on here with all these words of caution. A PW isn't just a game, it's a service-it's a business. Even if it's free, you still have all these considerations, and one more you don't have if you charge for your game: Where do you get the money to host it? And if you do want to charge for it, then you have to understand all the billing problems that will come with it.
All I'm saying is that if you can't look at these questions and answer or even understand the implications of them before you start, then don't start. And if you do start, be prepared for a long and very hard road. I can tell you from experience that TGE only holds your hand so much until you get into areas of PW development where you wind up doing months of research to find answers(sometimes the wrong ones, and I don't know how much time I've lost in research as opposed to pure development time). And I'm still doing research because I need to implement certain things in my game, and I only find bits and pieces of what I need to know here and there in the bookstore.
I spend probably 20 hours a week at a minimum learning for my game. Development time is preciously low, I don't have enough people on my team even though the ones I have are very good at what they do, and my financial situation prevents me from paying them even a fraction of what they deserve, if at all. Not to mention the stress from daily life and dealing with things that tear you away from the project. Doubt- did I mention that you'll be doubting yourself sometimes? And the doubt from outside won't help you, so you better have a strong will, and the knowledge to back it up.
In other words, you're probably better off joining someone else's team first, and then doing your own thing once you know the lay of the land better down the road. Wish I could call these words of wisdom, but I won't know until my game hits beta and everyone tells me if I'm a fool or not...
#12
11/15/2004 (5:16 pm)
George: I could have gone on, but I didn't want to make myself ball up in the fetal position and cry while I was setting up my spawning functions ;)
#13
May I ask which community? And no, your local highschool doesn't count."*End Quote*
*Ajari died laughing*
12/21/2004 (6:04 am)
*Quote by George Creator Goldstien*"It costs less to put up a website for a WHOLE YEAR, than to pay for 1 months worth of decent internet service. I'm guessing that it's 2 weeks of allowance for you or less than a single day's worth of work in a Summer job.May I ask which community? And no, your local highschool doesn't count."*End Quote*
*Ajari died laughing*
#14
That wasn't my original intention, but think of it like the Darwin awards. The indie community's IQ is 12 points higher because of his absence. No, seriously, it was not my goal, and all I was trying to do is help him get a start in the industry.
He couldn't take the suggestions, so I look forward to him re-joining the forums when he grows up (mentally).
12/21/2004 (6:14 am)
We scared him off....That wasn't my original intention, but think of it like the Darwin awards. The indie community's IQ is 12 points higher because of his absence. No, seriously, it was not my goal, and all I was trying to do is help him get a start in the industry.
He couldn't take the suggestions, so I look forward to him re-joining the forums when he grows up (mentally).
#15
Its nice that youve spent a year 'designing' your game. But I highly doubt that you can get a team on design alone. I've been planning my game since I was 15 - almost ten years - and still dont have a team, mainly because of my hectic work schedule and lack of initiative at times. The fact is my content is there (a lot of it), but as I learned, content isnt the only thing that brings a team to you. You need things mentioned here already, most importantly the discipline to stick with it throught the year(s) it takes to make an indie game. Just my 1.5 cents on the matter, take it as you want.
12/21/2004 (6:30 am)
@MichaelIts nice that youve spent a year 'designing' your game. But I highly doubt that you can get a team on design alone. I've been planning my game since I was 15 - almost ten years - and still dont have a team, mainly because of my hectic work schedule and lack of initiative at times. The fact is my content is there (a lot of it), but as I learned, content isnt the only thing that brings a team to you. You need things mentioned here already, most importantly the discipline to stick with it throught the year(s) it takes to make an indie game. Just my 1.5 cents on the matter, take it as you want.
Torque Owner nibbuls
1) No website. You should always have a website when presenting another idea, especially one as big as an MMORPG. Also, it would be great to actually purchase a domain name and avoiding anything free or ad-supported (like anglefire, geocities, or freewebs). It really shows commitment to the project.
2) No info. It doesn't appear as if you have any idea what the game will be about. This section needs to be thought out better.
3) Lack of support. You don't state what you will contribute to the project, excactly what positions you seek to fill (programmers and artists doesn't cut it) (try things like 2d concept creature artists does). You may want to try asking people you know personally in this industry to help you, at least at the beginning. With absolutely no other people on this project (as far as I can tell, because you have no credits and no website), you aren't going to get too far. It's best to do all of the design documents and everything first, so that you can hire people. For some reason, people in this industry tend to go towards projects that have a higher chance of completion. The further you are in making it, the more people will want to join.
4) Spontaneous. It appears as if you were playing Diablo 2 last night and thought, "Hey, the people at GG will help me make a game like this. Only it'll be better! It'll have more badguys, items, etc." This type of thought tends to get looked down upon here, because I doubt you understand the commitment an MMORPG takes. Everyone on my MMORPG team (About 35 people) spends 4-10 hours a day on it. Are you willing to do this for the next 2 years? I suppose the better question to ask is: Can you find people that are willing to do it for the next 2 years?
5) Payment. People are very greedy. They want money, and you haven't stated ANYTHING about it at all. It's best to give a solid number upfront, rather than 2%, 19%, etc. Something like $1,000/2 weeks will catch people's attention, but then it's still up to you to hammer out a contract.