New cyberpunk game
by James · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 11/05/2004 (12:53 am) · 6 replies
Hey guys this is my first post in these forums even though I've been registered since May, but I usually lurk forums while gathering the information I need until I have a question to ask which I haven't until know.
First I'd like to say how I admire the work the guys behind garagegames have been doing for the independant developer community especially providing such a fully featured game engine at such a good price and also constantly improving it. I can't wait to see what the guys around here will do with the TGE once it matures. From what I've seen so far this product has the goods to compete with the big boys and the price is a steal. I also commend all those who are willing to devote their time and knowledge by answer the questions asked by all of us n00bs, lol.
The main reason I started this post is that I am in the process of designing my first game which I intend to develop as a hobby so thankfully I won't time contraints or schedules so it doesn't matter if it takes 5-10 years, lol nor am I depenent on some suits glaring over my shoulder demanding updates on my progress or making me compromise on my vision for my game.
I need some advise before I take the step of purchasing a license for the Torque engine and the TSE about the feasibility of using the engine to power my game. The thing I most want to know is whether the Torque engine can be optimised enough via LoD and occlusion culling etc to render large cityscapes on the scale of the Grand Theft Auto series of games or even half the size. I would also like seamless transitions between the the outside cityscape and inside buildings. I would also like some idea of the possiblility of integrating a physics middleware product such as ODE or Tokamak which would allow such things as ragdolls, Inverse Kinematics, and possibly destructible environments.
The game I intend on making will be a 3d tactical game seen from the isometric perspective set in a cyberpunk/dystopian future. The main inspiration is Syndicate Wars not to mention other games from the genre that have been release since i.e Jagged Alliance 2, Freedom Fighters, Commandos series, Silent Storm, as well as RPGs such as Fallout I&2.
At the moment I have little more than knowledge of the development process and what skills and knowledge are needed to develop games other than being an avid gamer, but I am dedicated enough to learn the knowlege required to learn the skills and knowledge to achieve my goal. I have a rather long list of game development books that I intend to read.
I'm sorry for such a large first post, but I appreciate those who have persevered enough to reach this point and would also appreciate it if you could tell me the feasibility of my idea. Thanks again for reading my post. I await eagerly for a response.
First I'd like to say how I admire the work the guys behind garagegames have been doing for the independant developer community especially providing such a fully featured game engine at such a good price and also constantly improving it. I can't wait to see what the guys around here will do with the TGE once it matures. From what I've seen so far this product has the goods to compete with the big boys and the price is a steal. I also commend all those who are willing to devote their time and knowledge by answer the questions asked by all of us n00bs, lol.
The main reason I started this post is that I am in the process of designing my first game which I intend to develop as a hobby so thankfully I won't time contraints or schedules so it doesn't matter if it takes 5-10 years, lol nor am I depenent on some suits glaring over my shoulder demanding updates on my progress or making me compromise on my vision for my game.
I need some advise before I take the step of purchasing a license for the Torque engine and the TSE about the feasibility of using the engine to power my game. The thing I most want to know is whether the Torque engine can be optimised enough via LoD and occlusion culling etc to render large cityscapes on the scale of the Grand Theft Auto series of games or even half the size. I would also like seamless transitions between the the outside cityscape and inside buildings. I would also like some idea of the possiblility of integrating a physics middleware product such as ODE or Tokamak which would allow such things as ragdolls, Inverse Kinematics, and possibly destructible environments.
The game I intend on making will be a 3d tactical game seen from the isometric perspective set in a cyberpunk/dystopian future. The main inspiration is Syndicate Wars not to mention other games from the genre that have been release since i.e Jagged Alliance 2, Freedom Fighters, Commandos series, Silent Storm, as well as RPGs such as Fallout I&2.
At the moment I have little more than knowledge of the development process and what skills and knowledge are needed to develop games other than being an avid gamer, but I am dedicated enough to learn the knowlege required to learn the skills and knowledge to achieve my goal. I have a rather long list of game development books that I intend to read.
I'm sorry for such a large first post, but I appreciate those who have persevered enough to reach this point and would also appreciate it if you could tell me the feasibility of my idea. Thanks again for reading my post. I await eagerly for a response.
#2
Maybe cityscapes on the scale of Grand Theft Auto is too ambitious, but I dislike having to load up a new zone as it removes the immersion of the game at least in my opinion. I believe this lack of "zoning" as well as a minimalistic Hud is the greatest aid for immersion of the Grand Theft Auto series of games. The lack of enterable buildings is indeed a pitfall of the huge rendered environments of the series, but with the reduced scope of my idea hopefully I will be able to include seamless transitions into the game.
As for your concerns regarding the isometric camera, well I'll just have to experiment with the "God View" camera resource and see if I am able to make it suit my needs at least until I become proficient enough at programming to develop my own camera.
As for physics and destructible environments do you know which teams were involved in adding physics middleware into the Torque engine as they might have some advise for me. I am not fussed over multiplayer as I prefer "solitare" games and derive little pleasure from multiplayer so this will not be a hinderance to destructable environments.
Cheers
11/05/2004 (5:08 pm)
Thanks for persisting in reading my lengthly post Randall and for replying with some helpful advise. It know it is an ambitious and daunting goal to attempt to live up to those games that I listed, but I believe it will be a worthwhile task and a great learning experience. I intend on becoming a jack of all trades so that I may develop my game myself as I do not wish to rely on others to help me as I have been dissappointed before my others as they have other commitments and could not continue helping. The task is made easier with the wealth of information, advise, and resources that the community has to offer games developers. Maybe cityscapes on the scale of Grand Theft Auto is too ambitious, but I dislike having to load up a new zone as it removes the immersion of the game at least in my opinion. I believe this lack of "zoning" as well as a minimalistic Hud is the greatest aid for immersion of the Grand Theft Auto series of games. The lack of enterable buildings is indeed a pitfall of the huge rendered environments of the series, but with the reduced scope of my idea hopefully I will be able to include seamless transitions into the game.
As for your concerns regarding the isometric camera, well I'll just have to experiment with the "God View" camera resource and see if I am able to make it suit my needs at least until I become proficient enough at programming to develop my own camera.
As for physics and destructible environments do you know which teams were involved in adding physics middleware into the Torque engine as they might have some advise for me. I am not fussed over multiplayer as I prefer "solitare" games and derive little pleasure from multiplayer so this will not be a hinderance to destructable environments.
Cheers
#3
11/05/2004 (5:12 pm)
GarageGames is coming out with new terrain manager in TSE, certainly something to talk into consideration if developing something on a larger scale.
#4
www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=5024
For more information on ODE, you can use the search function here at GG.
Search: Resources for +"ode"
The plus and quotes are required, otherwise you end up with a bunch of crap that has nothing to do with physiscs.
11/05/2004 (5:44 pm)
There are resources and information regarding ODE. This one has a movie that is pretty cool, especially the second segment that knocks over a stack of boxes:www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=5024
For more information on ODE, you can use the search function here at GG.
Search: Resources for +"ode"
The plus and quotes are required, otherwise you end up with a bunch of crap that has nothing to do with physiscs.
#5
Cheers for finding that resource Randall as it seems to be what I was after (I'll use the search function from now on, lol,) and it definately enlightened me to the difficulty of this facet of game design.
11/10/2004 (9:25 pm)
Thanks for letting me know about the new terrain manager in the TSE Cameron. It hopefully will help with the large landscapes in my game.Cheers for finding that resource Randall as it seems to be what I was after (I'll use the search function from now on, lol,) and it definately enlightened me to the difficulty of this facet of game design.
#6
James.
11/14/2004 (10:33 pm)
One thing I would like to know about the free resources that people have contributed to the community is to integrate it into the game is it merely a case of installing an .exe file or is it a case of adding the new code to the Torque source code or something entirely different? Cheers, James.
Torque Owner Randall
Well holy crap, all of those are among my favorite and most memorable games (I have never player Jagged Alliance2 though).
You don't really state your area of expertise. Hopefully you are a jack of all trades type, because trying to gather a team that doesn't care if the game takes 5-10 years to complete will be near impossible.
As far as optimising the engine to handle a city the size of grand theft auto AND seamless transitions between indoor/outdoor... I dunno. Thats a massive amount of rendering. GTA has massive cities but doesn't allow you to enter too many buildings. Freedom Fighters keeps the maps confined to smaller areas but allows you to enter quite a few buildings. The only thing that might trim down on the rendering is the isometric camera, since it won't allow you to see far distances.
But the isometric camera comes with its own set of problems as the player will constantly be blocked by the cityscape details. Camera movement will have to be considered immensely.
I've heard of middleware physics being added to Torque, but have never seen a product in action. Destructable environments are going to be tough, especially if you intend to add multiplayer. There is a reason very few games have truly destructable environments (SinglePlayer or MultiPlayer).