Medieval Swordplay 3rd Person Action (something like that)
by Ian Wheat · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 11/01/2001 (2:21 pm) · 17 replies
I had a thought for a game after the one i'm developing right now.
It would involve a 3rd person camera and all sorts of swords and forms of swordplay that the player could follow or mix forms together and what not.
I have no idea about a story for this game but the idea of swordplay in a PC game is just fascinating to me.
Any suggestions, opinions etc?
- ian wheat
It would involve a 3rd person camera and all sorts of swords and forms of swordplay that the player could follow or mix forms together and what not.
I have no idea about a story for this game but the idea of swordplay in a PC game is just fascinating to me.
Any suggestions, opinions etc?
- ian wheat
About the author
#2
And i'm already on a team =)
I think I may use the idea for my next game unless yours is a huge success. =)
- ian wheat
11/02/2001 (3:10 pm)
heh. I would but I have no skills to offer other than design and writing (little bit of mapping)And i'm already on a team =)
I think I may use the idea for my next game unless yours is a huge success. =)
- ian wheat
#3
11/02/2001 (3:14 pm)
So hope fully you wont be doing taht as your next game... ;)
#5
11/03/2001 (2:35 pm)
hey josh, id like to hear more about your ideas. if you feel inclined, mail me at Jhighsmith7@home.com
#6
I too am interested in discussing ideas for control methods, sword methods, etc, but I'm far more interested in discussing them out in the open in a forum rather than in behind-the-scenes emails. :) Any takers?
11/06/2001 (8:59 am)
Well, that's exactly the game I'm working on, except my characters have lightsabres. :) I'm looking at using a joystick as the primary input device, preferably force feedback to feel the sword's momentum and the jarring block of your opponent.I too am interested in discussing ideas for control methods, sword methods, etc, but I'm far more interested in discussing them out in the open in a forum rather than in behind-the-scenes emails. :) Any takers?
#7
And a question: what would be involved in getting the proper liscensing to make a MobileSuit Gundam based game made and would anyone play it?
I was kind of thinking about using GW in an arena mode (like Quake3 or UT) this would involve the same swordplay and fighting principles of balance (and some wonderful force feedback =) any takers?
- ian wheat
11/06/2001 (2:06 pm)
G, i'm with you on the discussing how to do it. you've got my Icq# =)And a question: what would be involved in getting the proper liscensing to make a MobileSuit Gundam based game made and would anyone play it?
I was kind of thinking about using GW in an arena mode (like Quake3 or UT) this would involve the same swordplay and fighting principles of balance (and some wonderful force feedback =) any takers?
- ian wheat
#8
I dont like the idea of a joystick for the for a few reasons:
1. Not everyone, oddly enough, even has one.
2. It isnt as intuitive as the mouse(most people use the mouse alot more often).
3. Less work for me. :)
My control scheme involves alot of button combinations. However, they all make sense. It wont be like traditional fighting games where you have to press forward, forward, punch and kick to pull off a move. That just isnt intuitive. Instead, if you press forward and attack, you wil do a thrust. If you press forward, shift (crouch) and attack, you will do a low thrust. All moves will be executed by a logical combination of the 4 directional buttons, attack, crouch, and jump (for high attacks). There will also be a button for spinning, diving, and blocking. Another cool idea I had was to have a button for reversing the current attack (kind of like a feint). What do you guys think?
11/06/2001 (3:42 pm)
Hey guys, count me in on the discussion! I wanted emails before because I doubted that many people were interested in it. Also, my demo is coming out relatively soon, so you will all see my superior control scheme anyway.... ;)I dont like the idea of a joystick for the for a few reasons:
1. Not everyone, oddly enough, even has one.
2. It isnt as intuitive as the mouse(most people use the mouse alot more often).
3. Less work for me. :)
My control scheme involves alot of button combinations. However, they all make sense. It wont be like traditional fighting games where you have to press forward, forward, punch and kick to pull off a move. That just isnt intuitive. Instead, if you press forward and attack, you wil do a thrust. If you press forward, shift (crouch) and attack, you will do a low thrust. All moves will be executed by a logical combination of the 4 directional buttons, attack, crouch, and jump (for high attacks). There will also be a button for spinning, diving, and blocking. Another cool idea I had was to have a button for reversing the current attack (kind of like a feint). What do you guys think?
#9
In fact what a lot of modders in the Jedi Knight community have been doing in recent times is making swordplay (saberplay =) mods that work in pretty much the same way as what you described. However they are mostly for arena/deathmatch gameplay so there is no story behind it and you can't improve your skills.
G, give us a better description of your project.
- ian wheat
11/06/2001 (5:25 pm)
Josh, sound really cool.In fact what a lot of modders in the Jedi Knight community have been doing in recent times is making swordplay (saberplay =) mods that work in pretty much the same way as what you described. However they are mostly for arena/deathmatch gameplay so there is no story behind it and you can't improve your skills.
G, give us a better description of your project.
- ian wheat
#10
11/06/2001 (6:02 pm)
What do you mean, "improve your skills"?
#11
=)
What I mean by improving skills is that you get better as you fight more. A sort of RPG aspect that would be quite nice in a sword-fighting game.
Also I think it would be nice to show the player what skills he/she has learned and what fighting style they come from.
Just some thoughts =)
- ian "Is" wheat
11/06/2001 (6:45 pm)
What I mean by improving skills is that you get better as you fight more. A sort of RPG aspect that would be quite nice in a sword-fighting game.
Also I think it would be nice to show the player what skills he/she has learned and what fighting style they come from.
Just some thoughts =)
- ian "Is" wheat
#12
Yeah, I planned on having some RPG aspects in the game, though not many would affect teh fighting. Maybe I should have the skills tie directly into the fighting, its something I will look into.
I remembered another really cool idea that I had. :) I am going to TRY to let the player create unique animations (using milkshape, or even better, a small program created by me just for that purpose). All they woud have to do to get the anims in teh game is copy them into a folder, and bind the keys to that move, maybe in a script. This would allow people to create their own distinctive fighting styles! Obviously, this could easily be exploited (having some unrealistic animations), but it doesnt matter in single player, and tehre could be a multiplayer option to disable it.
Just imagine it. People could create entire martial arts systems and distribute them on the web, perhaps replacing all the standard animations, thus making the game completely different. I think it would be really cool.
11/07/2001 (12:02 pm)
Sorry, its hard to keep real life names and the IRC nicks straight. :)Yeah, I planned on having some RPG aspects in the game, though not many would affect teh fighting. Maybe I should have the skills tie directly into the fighting, its something I will look into.
I remembered another really cool idea that I had. :) I am going to TRY to let the player create unique animations (using milkshape, or even better, a small program created by me just for that purpose). All they woud have to do to get the anims in teh game is copy them into a folder, and bind the keys to that move, maybe in a script. This would allow people to create their own distinctive fighting styles! Obviously, this could easily be exploited (having some unrealistic animations), but it doesnt matter in single player, and tehre could be a multiplayer option to disable it.
Just imagine it. People could create entire martial arts systems and distribute them on the web, perhaps replacing all the standard animations, thus making the game completely different. I think it would be really cool.
#13
11/07/2001 (9:51 pm)
josh, how would the collision work? is it per poly? and how does the animation work, is it one base skeleton, or several, etc? whens it comin out, i wanna see!
#14
Josh: Ever tried playing a flight/space sim using a mouse? Joysticks can be FAR more intuitive. My system matches character's blade position to joystick position, so I think a joystick would be more intuitive than the mouse. The mouse has the problem that you can push it forever and ever in one direction (you know what I mean)... the joystick has well defined boundries. And you can hold a stick in a similar way to holding a sword. Kinda. Moreso than a mouse anyway. ;)
Ian: My project is an attempt to recreate Star Wars: The Phantom Menace style sabre duels. That includes the insane speed, blocking, parrying, footwork (to a simplified extent), and all the other swordplay. (Ok, I know the "footwork" thing will be attacked as being too complex. Basically, the player can choose to move towards/away from the opponent aggresively/defensively, or remain neutral. The player can also trigger spins. That will be the extent of footwork.)
Without going into complexities, an attack is made by pushing the stick in a direction, pushing the button to pull the sword out, then releasing the sword to strike. Defending is a matter of nudging the stick towards the oncoming strike; parrying is pushing the stick all the way. It gets more detailed than that, but that's enough for a beginner to play the game. In fact, it can potentially get FAR more detailed, so a skilled player could be pulling off moves seen in the movie.
When the game's FINISHED, that is. I'm still on the animation stage. :)
Basically, where Josh's game concentrates on letting the player choose moves, mine concentrates on letting the player perform moves. It's a different set of skills and both ideas have their up and down sides.
Oh, and Josh, WHERE'S that demo? Or that screenshot/skin you promised me? hehehe :)
11/07/2001 (11:37 pm)
Sorry I haven't been posting, I've been working insane hours.Josh: Ever tried playing a flight/space sim using a mouse? Joysticks can be FAR more intuitive. My system matches character's blade position to joystick position, so I think a joystick would be more intuitive than the mouse. The mouse has the problem that you can push it forever and ever in one direction (you know what I mean)... the joystick has well defined boundries. And you can hold a stick in a similar way to holding a sword. Kinda. Moreso than a mouse anyway. ;)
Ian: My project is an attempt to recreate Star Wars: The Phantom Menace style sabre duels. That includes the insane speed, blocking, parrying, footwork (to a simplified extent), and all the other swordplay. (Ok, I know the "footwork" thing will be attacked as being too complex. Basically, the player can choose to move towards/away from the opponent aggresively/defensively, or remain neutral. The player can also trigger spins. That will be the extent of footwork.)
Without going into complexities, an attack is made by pushing the stick in a direction, pushing the button to pull the sword out, then releasing the sword to strike. Defending is a matter of nudging the stick towards the oncoming strike; parrying is pushing the stick all the way. It gets more detailed than that, but that's enough for a beginner to play the game. In fact, it can potentially get FAR more detailed, so a skilled player could be pulling off moves seen in the movie.
When the game's FINISHED, that is. I'm still on the animation stage. :)
Basically, where Josh's game concentrates on letting the player choose moves, mine concentrates on letting the player perform moves. It's a different set of skills and both ideas have their up and down sides.
Oh, and Josh, WHERE'S that demo? Or that screenshot/skin you promised me? hehehe :)
#15
Actually I have a decent screenshot now. It is of a statue:
http://www.geocities.com/xtreamccf/stuff/statue2.jpg
You need to copy paste it into the browser since geocities sucks.
The demo will come as soon as our animator gets his new DSL connection (he moved and it has taken these people forever to get him his new connection)
11/08/2001 (8:24 am)
The idea of performing moves with a jostick just doesnt seem to work with me. The trouble comes when you try to do anything cool (twirl the saber, lift it above your head and stab someone behind you, spin and block fast, etc. ) Good luck on it. :) Actually I have a decent screenshot now. It is of a statue:
http://www.geocities.com/xtreamccf/stuff/statue2.jpg
You need to copy paste it into the browser since geocities sucks.
The demo will come as soon as our animator gets his new DSL connection (he moved and it has taken these people forever to get him his new connection)
#16
I take the opposite stance to you - the idea of pushing the "perform a twirl and strike" button doesn't do much for me. I prefer to take away as much of the abstraction in a control system as possible. i.e. The stick corresponds to the sabre, rather than a button corresponding to a whole movement.
But like I said, completely different styles requiring completely different skill sets and having completely different appeals.
By the way, my input system as it stands can handle the moves you mentioned - I did say that what I described was overly simplified. :) Twirling = double tap of the "reverse grip" button; there will be a "turn your back on your opponent" mode allowing the move you described; small twists are automatic and major spins can be controled (especially with M$ joysticks that have a rudder twist), and both methods allow blocking. Most of the controls I just described sound silly without knowing the entire system, but hey. :D
Good luck for your's too. :)
Has the animator finished (to a demo stage anyway) his stuff now?
11/08/2001 (7:25 pm)
That's a reasonably nifty statue. :)I take the opposite stance to you - the idea of pushing the "perform a twirl and strike" button doesn't do much for me. I prefer to take away as much of the abstraction in a control system as possible. i.e. The stick corresponds to the sabre, rather than a button corresponding to a whole movement.
But like I said, completely different styles requiring completely different skill sets and having completely different appeals.
By the way, my input system as it stands can handle the moves you mentioned - I did say that what I described was overly simplified. :) Twirling = double tap of the "reverse grip" button; there will be a "turn your back on your opponent" mode allowing the move you described; small twists are automatic and major spins can be controled (especially with M$ joysticks that have a rudder twist), and both methods allow blocking. Most of the controls I just described sound silly without knowing the entire system, but hey. :D
Good luck for your's too. :)
Has the animator finished (to a demo stage anyway) his stuff now?
#17
Rune-This game went for the instant gratification of FPS's by using the Unreal Tournament engine to have quick fast and dirty melee fighting. It was lots of fun, but apparently (I never finished it, was borrowing from a friend) it got old after awhile. It used shields farily simply, various weapons, allowed you to throw weapons, and had somewhat area specific damage...you could cut off bodyparts and then use them as weapons. In multiplayer this worked the same on you...I managed to get my sword arm cut off and was running around with a shield and a stub. :P
Blade of Darkness-I've only played the demo to this, but it has extremely nice graphics. The shadows and water were among the best I've seen. It was very hard to get used to (movement was very ridgid), but according to someone who's played through the whole thing, once you get used to it it's quite fun. This added things to the mix by allowing you to be one of 4 (maybe 5) different characters that had different attributes...I think they were barbarian, warrior, amazon, and dwarf. The dwarf used shields and swords and was farily tough, barbarian used mainly just a heavy weapon and was tough but slow, the warrior was kinda medium, and the amazon was agile and such. Projectile weapons were added to this game, but were simple ones like bows and arrows.
DM
11/17/2001 (5:15 pm)
Games like this:Rune-This game went for the instant gratification of FPS's by using the Unreal Tournament engine to have quick fast and dirty melee fighting. It was lots of fun, but apparently (I never finished it, was borrowing from a friend) it got old after awhile. It used shields farily simply, various weapons, allowed you to throw weapons, and had somewhat area specific damage...you could cut off bodyparts and then use them as weapons. In multiplayer this worked the same on you...I managed to get my sword arm cut off and was running around with a shield and a stub. :P
Blade of Darkness-I've only played the demo to this, but it has extremely nice graphics. The shadows and water were among the best I've seen. It was very hard to get used to (movement was very ridgid), but according to someone who's played through the whole thing, once you get used to it it's quite fun. This added things to the mix by allowing you to be one of 4 (maybe 5) different characters that had different attributes...I think they were barbarian, warrior, amazon, and dwarf. The dwarf used shields and swords and was farily tough, barbarian used mainly just a heavy weapon and was tough but slow, the warrior was kinda medium, and the amazon was agile and such. Projectile weapons were added to this game, but were simple ones like bows and arrows.
DM
Torque Owner Josh Albrecht
Join my team. :)
I am doing almost exactly what you are thinking. And I have some really good ideas for how to make amazingly deep weapon fighting, without having to memorize hundreds of moves. If you want more details, I could email you...