Rendering and Performance (without TSE)
by Apparatus · in General Discussion · 11/04/2004 (12:26 am) · 9 replies
I was searching the forums about this topic, but couldn't find anything that suits my need. If there IS such forum, please move it there. The issue was about where to start to read/learn about improving the TGE rendering engine, thus, improving visual performance and polycounts (plus other effects such as shadows or even dynamics). Please take my question as it is, coming from an artist not a programmer. I've scripted a bit, but I would like to dig deeper and see if I can face a programmer's job.
Thanks in advance and sorry if this was covered elsewhere.
Thanks in advance and sorry if this was covered elsewhere.
About the author
Tarakibu Studio
#2
LOL!
11/04/2004 (1:03 am)
Um, why not just use TSE?Quote:
I've scripted a bit, but I would like to dig deeper and see if I can face a programmer's job.
LOL!
#3
if you are serious about wanting to get more into graphics programming, and finding out about what effects performance, one great book is "Real-Time Rendering" by Akenine Moeller. the only problem is that it can be a bit advanced if you aren't familiar with the concepts already, but that's up to you :)
For free resources, I'd reccomend going to any of the big graphics card maker's websites, ATI and NVIDIA, and looking for their developer's section. You'll find many many presentations, papers and articles on their reccomended way for doing certain effects, and making a fast engine these days in general.
But being an artist yourself, there's a lot you can do, since most of what makes games look bad has to do with art and not technology, it's probably great practice for you to see what you can do with the existing technology as much as you can.
11/04/2004 (7:02 am)
Gramofon,if you are serious about wanting to get more into graphics programming, and finding out about what effects performance, one great book is "Real-Time Rendering" by Akenine Moeller. the only problem is that it can be a bit advanced if you aren't familiar with the concepts already, but that's up to you :)
For free resources, I'd reccomend going to any of the big graphics card maker's websites, ATI and NVIDIA, and looking for their developer's section. You'll find many many presentations, papers and articles on their reccomended way for doing certain effects, and making a fast engine these days in general.
But being an artist yourself, there's a lot you can do, since most of what makes games look bad has to do with art and not technology, it's probably great practice for you to see what you can do with the existing technology as much as you can.
#4
Cause i would like to insert only some features not just every possible feature there is. For example just shadows and good reflections.
11/04/2004 (6:38 pm)
Quote:Um, why not just use TSE?
Cause i would like to insert only some features not just every possible feature there is. For example just shadows and good reflections.
#5
And... TGE already has "good" shadows and reflections IMO.
...also, I think there are some resources here somewhere about improving performance for having lots of trees in a scene for TGE... maybe take a look at those and see how they work. Sorry, I don't have a link to it.
11/04/2004 (7:15 pm)
I think it's worth spending some extra cash and get all the feautures of TSE... plus, TSE is not just for eye-candy, the whole engine is streamlined for better performance (that's what the product description says anyway).And... TGE already has "good" shadows and reflections IMO.
...also, I think there are some resources here somewhere about improving performance for having lots of trees in a scene for TGE... maybe take a look at those and see how they work. Sorry, I don't have a link to it.
#6
But, you can also look at the rendering code to see exactly what you want to change. Most likely you'll be changing the exact same pieces that are implemented in TSE and stress-tested with more than your video card. So TSE is an extremely valuable investement if it targets the audience you want. Especially from a testing POV.
11/04/2004 (8:09 pm)
TGE and the Synapse Lighting Pack are two invaluable elements for those who are not able or willing to move to TSE at this time. While the lighting pack's patch file doesn't integrate nicely with TGE 1.3, the documentation will get it up and running.But, you can also look at the rendering code to see exactly what you want to change. Most likely you'll be changing the exact same pieces that are implemented in TSE and stress-tested with more than your video card. So TSE is an extremely valuable investement if it targets the audience you want. Especially from a testing POV.
#8
One of the best things that you can do is download the TGE demo, Synapse Lighting Pack demo, and the TSE demo and try your content in each. It's a simple tested solution for quick testing. If it doesn't work, you can figure out which piece doesn't work and why (hopefully...I know I've done some really strange things that have screwed up things in the past).
It's truly amazing the prototyping that you can do with the demos.
11/04/2004 (8:35 pm)
Artwork will affect your game depending on what you want and the restrictions you impose. Artists without restrictions can give you some of the most amazing artwork on the planet, but it may not be able to be available in real-time until 2010 regardless of the processor optimizations.One of the best things that you can do is download the TGE demo, Synapse Lighting Pack demo, and the TSE demo and try your content in each. It's a simple tested solution for quick testing. If it doesn't work, you can figure out which piece doesn't work and why (hopefully...I know I've done some really strange things that have screwed up things in the past).
It's truly amazing the prototyping that you can do with the demos.
#9
Unfortunatelly with the TSE and LightPack I cannot do much but look at the features. I did had TGE demo long ago (now I have a licence for it). The TGE demo actually pushed me to buy the licence. I was not thinking of upgrading actually to TSE rather than extract every nifty feature from TGE as possible. Pretty much like the halflife1 community does lately, even after the anouncement of the hl2 based on Source engine. TGE IS powerfull, needs work and optimising. I bet we can make games with it without touching the C code (just the script part).
Thanks a lot for feedback. As usual, GG forums rock.
11/04/2004 (8:52 pm)
Great. i may seem a dumb ass, but this stubborness sometimes helpes. we are currently doing artwork for a designer survival kit (previously known as multiplayer kit). all we need now is to understand exactly how the artwork affects performance, how this can be solved out - either by upgrade to TSE or inhouse developing. it's a matter of learning everything there is to understand the tools better. I know TSE is a great addition to TGE, i was just curios. There are of course many tricks to keep the overal feeling of the game environment at a great scale - exceptional looking, without affecting performance. This is what we will cover in the Designer Kit. Unfortunatelly with the TSE and LightPack I cannot do much but look at the features. I did had TGE demo long ago (now I have a licence for it). The TGE demo actually pushed me to buy the licence. I was not thinking of upgrading actually to TSE rather than extract every nifty feature from TGE as possible. Pretty much like the halflife1 community does lately, even after the anouncement of the hl2 based on Source engine. TGE IS powerfull, needs work and optimising. I bet we can make games with it without touching the C code (just the script part).
Thanks a lot for feedback. As usual, GG forums rock.
Torque Owner Stefan Lundmark
Adding all that will take quite a while.