Mmorpg

#1 Firstly, you should know that it is hard to make any more sophisticated game than a MMORPG's. You need a lot of experience in programming and game development and a team of determined people willing to work countless dedicated hours for a couple of years... and you need a roll of cash to burn. I suggest you start with some smaller projects to simply gain more experience. The book "Game Creation and Careers" has an excellent and sobering chapter on MMORPG's, I also suggest you check that out.

#2 @Liam McDonald:

Trying to get your project first in the list with all those characters made me look away from the page immediatly without reading it. It's just not cool style.

@Joshua Dallman:

You don't need a "roll of cash to burn".

#3

Quote:Trying to get your project first in the list with all those characters made me look away from the page immediatly without reading it. It's just not cool style.

Agreed. It irritates me as well.

#4

Quote:You don't need a "roll of cash to burn".

Even if you can get artists, programmers, etc. to work as hobbyists for free, there's tangible costs associated with online games, namely servers and bandwitdh.

#5 Well, some cash is needed, but what Liam needs more than that, or even a team right now, is skills. Everyone's got ideas, and everyone says that their's is the best. However, when you take this kind of project on, not knowing coding or art or scripting, then you're asking for disaster. Learn at least scripting, write your design down to as much detail as you can squeeze out of your head, and then go get yourself a team. But not before, or you won't get the project off the ground. Hope that helps...

#6

Quote:
Trying to get your project first in the list with all those characters made me look away from the page immediatly without reading it. It's just not cool style.

I third this.. it makes me think of whiney 13 yr. olds

- Brett

#7 In regards to:

"Even if you can get artists, programmers, etc. to work as hobbyists for free, there's tangible costs associated with online games, namely servers and bandwitdh."

Well the idea at any point is once you have the game made you can then from that point take a loan, or hit up a publisher, etc. It is possible to do an MMO, but you need working knowledge of how they operate and yes a dedicated team of individuals.

#8 @Joshua Dallman:

True, but it doesn't have to be a "roll of cash".
My team were lucky, and got sponsored with bandwidth..

#9 Thank you all for your responses, altho I had to pick out some of the flared anger there. Sorry about the charecters I first made one without any characters but then saw what people where doing and yes It is lame but with such a mass ammount of it on the site I thought it was just done, My apologies to you all for doing this it was not my intention to appear childish. I agree with alot of your points I am imature in many ways in the way of coding and scripting. However I feel a solid Idea is where you start and if my only problems are creating the game im not worried. Because I know the idea is there.

However in the way of experience I want to join a project first of all before actually making my own im willing to give 2 or more years to developing a Role Playing Game putting my own input in and getting experience out of it. But I need to find that project :)

Thank you all for your time.

#10 Uh, George, we don't have a 'building a team' section in our forum, and nobody "fell off the wagon".

Can we please try to reserve PR statements like this to the PR people, or at least run them by me, first?

#11 Long before you need a team to make it real you need a game design. descriptions of cool stuff someone could own doesnt count.

Give a brief description of what your game is about without including the meta stuff you will be able to do. why am I in this world of yours, what is my purpose, what will I be doing and why. how will that be fun?

One thing inexperienced game designers tend to do is not place restrictions. those restrictions are there for a reason, removing all restrictions does not necessarily make for a fun game.

if I could move chess pieces wherever and whenever and however I wanted it not be a fun or challenging game.

constraints and restrictions are just as important as all the "cool" stuff you can do.

plus if you havent gone through the design experience of making a single player game I wouldnt recommend trying to take on something as enormous as a MMO. just a suggestion. lot of learning to do before you should attempt that.

#12 I don't get why everyone is going for MMORPG projects!

My current projet, Dark Region, is somewhat an MMORPG.

I am making Dark Region for two reasons: I want to test my skills as a C++ programmer and I need money for college.

My goal for pps (Players Per Server) is 255-500. I am going on the small section of the MMORPG spectrum.

It can really only be called and MORPG but the designer loves to think of it as a MMORPG.

I was given the advice by the great people here when I started "START WITH SMALL PROJECTS". That is what I am doing and I came from a Tribes2 / Unreal Engine modding background.

Robert Pierce,
Uber Real Games

#13 Excellent advice from TheMartian, particularly with the notion of design documentation. As a project manager, your biggest function is to maintain communication. You are responsible for getting 20+ people to do things that they would normally not do, and I'm assuming you're probably going to be doing that without financial persuasion. It's a tough job. One of the best ways you can do it is with design documentation and a professional front.

Now, I'm gonna say I agree with his advice about "starting small", but I'm also just gonna add that sometimes you can sort of break the rules. There are exceptions to every case. In reality, with enough persistence, professionalism, and sheer leadership genius, you could probably pull something off like this as your first project. But I'm serious- it's once in a blue moon.

Another misconception I wanna put out right here and now is that you can't make an MMO without millions of dollars. If you're willing to put 10+ hours a day into this project for the next two or three years, you can probably generate enough charisma to find funding. But it's not gonna come from nowhere. You have to play your cards, first, before you can expect anyone else to join the game.

Anyway, moving on to Robert...

Nice attempt at a cheap plug, but I'll bite anyway. Everyone is going for an MMORPG because it's a noble cause. We're just waiting for a noble team to meet it.

#14 I was originally designing a First Person Shooter that would use the Torque engine called Machina. My designer, whom designed Dark Region, insisited on this being my first project. He believed it was an instant money maker.

Now I am not very optimistic but at least if its a good game I can do better with Machina and then an RTS (I really want to get my hands on the RTS Pack but I cannot afford it, hehe).

I really hope we, as a community, can make Indie games the standard.

Robert Pierce,
Uber Real Games

(Has anyone been on www.pcgamer.com? On the news ticker is a news article that reads "(10/11) Dark Reign, a MMORPG using the Torque Engine has been announced...". That is pretty much correct for Dark Region. I contacted PC Gamer quite some time ago about this. Has anyone else noticed this and tried to look up information on this Dark Reign just incase it is very simialr?

Sorry to be off-topic)

#15 Your on crack or somthing , sure it may take a few bucks to put together a mmorpg but milions of dollars i really dought it.

the following is an example of why everyone wants to do a mmorpg


lets say you charge 15.00 a mounth to play the game.
lets say you have 5 servers that can hold 500 each players at once
lets say your game turns out to be awesome
do i need to do the math for you?


15x500=7500x5=37500


a mounth remember.

#16 Alrighty. Since I took my stance on defending the indie community, it's now my turn to rant against the norm.

Indie projects != money.

Indie projects definitely != instant money.

(Insert "exceptions to every rule" disclaimer here)

Anyway... I think that once indie groups start aiming for goals a little bit more feasible and probable than money, their projects will suddenly get easier.

If your goal is to make money, and you spend a 3 months working on an MMORPG, without any financial input, how does that affect morale?

If your goal is to learn and you spend two years working on an MMORPG, and you learn every step of the way, how does that affect morale?

#17 Okay, I really hate having to do this, but it's time for me to go awol on Ace.

I'll try to do it in a very light-hearted, sarcastic manner.

Quote: "Another misconception I wanna put out right here and now is that you can't make an MMO without millions of dollars."

Do I need to do the grammatic diagramming for you?

Another misconception I wanna put out right here and now is: (that you can't make an MMO without millions of dollars.)

I did not state that it requires millions of dollars to make an MMO. I was infact stating against that. Also, your math is very off, since we're on the subject of financing.

quote:
"lets say you charge 15.00 a mounth to play the game.
lets say you have 5 servers that can hold 500 players at once
lets say your game turns out to be awesome
do i need to do the math for you?


15x500=7500
5x500=37500"

Alrighty. First up, your game better rock, if you're charging $15. Second, if your server can handle 500 players, then I'm guessing your coders are gonna want some cash for their efficient programming skills, and you've still gotta pay your five servers for bandwidth. Oh, and I'm sure your artists would like some pay, too. And anywhere that you advertise... Probably a handful of software licenses in there, too. Also, you might wanna consider having a couple of IT reps on hand, since you are guaranteeing service in exchange for money.

Anyway, like I said... you don't have to have millions. But you do have to play careful to avoid a financial nightmare.

This is possible. You just have to play your cards well.

Oh, finally, thanks for keeping your argument directed at my argument, instead of using the fallacy of argumentum ad hominem by making a personal attack at me, which might include the suggestion of drug abuse on my part.

Oh wait... never mind. I must have missed that part.

#18 Heh ya its late i re did my post,

#19

Quote:I did not state that it requires millions of dollars to make an MMO. I was infact stating against that.

Agreed, though I thought you said it too the first time I read it, until I re-read it ;)

Agreed on the point as well. In fact, depending on how you play your cards you can get the budget a lot lower, but doing that won't make it your day job, just a funded part-time indie job. Still, that's better than nothing.

Quote:Also, your math is very off, since we're on the subject of financing.

Agreed with everything that follows. A good rule of thumb is to look at about 60% of your profits as the base amount which you can kiss goodbye to operating expenses. Maybe higher, maybe lower, depending on your game and service set-up. But it's there, and many other problems as well.

What you have to do is read about every book on online gaming out there, apply your game to their metrics, and then get creative(creative in an honest way, which is not the way that a lot of people who want to create mmo's are honest with themselves). Then refactor your plan again and again til you have a good plan to go by. That goes for both the financial and design plans, btw...

#20

Quote:What you have to do is read about every book on online gaming out there, apply your game to their metrics, and then get creative(creative in an honest way, which is not the way that a lot of people who want to create mmo's are honest with themselves). Then refactor your plan again and again til you have a good plan to go by.

Agreed...

Quote:That goes for both the financial and design plans, btw...

...and this brought a tear to my eye.

Excellently put, and I couldn't agree more.

It's just sickening to me that a lot of other indie groups assume that there are only two extreme options. I'm about to list the two extremes that most people assume. These are not stated as my opinion. ;)

[notmyopinion]
-If you want to succeed, you have to do exactly what everyone else is doing. Originality makes you a n00b, and you're bound to fail.

-If you want to make a cool game, everything has to be extremely original and unfathomably unprecendented.
[/notmyopinion]

People forget the concept of balance. Originality is excellent. Time-tested traditions work, too.

Blending the two well is perfect.