MMORPG question

#1 If they're working for other developers, there may be some huge contractual problems.

Game Studio can't handle the load you're going to throw at it (or 32 characters even). You would have to completely rewrite the netcode using their SDK.

3DGS is a nice engine, but networking is not its strong point. It never has been.

If you want to play with the Torque client/server model, you can download the demo, but you'd be far better off going to opentnl.org and downloading the Torque Network Library to stress-test it.

#2 Torque is not designed for MMO's, for that reason most Torque objects have lots of properties and a heavy bandwith usage. You can estimate 3kb/sec per client. As for samples of the net code, you might want to check www.opentnl.org , it's the GPL version of torque's networking library.

Regards,
Xavier.

#3 I have noticed the Torque's code structure and sending the parameter for each character is not easily possible in Torque. In that manner GS is better.

However, GS' netcode isn't that great. However, we are hoping for the 6.3 version that is "supposed" to have a better netcode.

David, the work we are doing here is all from our pocket, our time and at our home and our own place. It has nothing to do with the companies we work for. Only IF we use the company's tools/budget, there is a problem. There is no law in US restricting us.

Do you guys know of an engine that can handle MMOs. We do not care if it is commercial or pricy.

Thanks,
Rakesh

#4 There's a group of people I came accross that are also setting up to develop an MMOG. You can check it out at http://www.twnpo.com

The primary engines they seem to be considering are BigWorld with either the BigWorld client, Shiva or NetImmerse(Gamebryo) as the client end.

I pointed out Korean MMOG engines, that being the MMOG capital of the world so it seems. Language seems to be the reason why they don't get a lot of mention. One of these MMOG engine developers contacted my company, but we do not do MMOGs and did not look far into it. If you are interested, drop me an email and I'll hook you up.

edit: Other "big-name" MMOG backends are Butterfly.net and Terazona.

#5 @Rakesh: Keep in mind too that by using GameStudio instead of Torque, you're isolating Mac and Linux gamers. 60% of GG's sales are for Macs, and 7% for Linux. Less important for a single player game perhaps, but even more important for a MMORPG (where you need as many users as possible to be fun). Torque fully supports Win/Mac/Linux.

#6 Greetings!

Rakesh

I'm curious by what you meant by "sending the parameter for each character is not easily possible in Torque"?

If you mean sending information to a specific client/player/character, that is quite straightforward in Torque/TNL. Perhaps you were referring to something else?

- LightWave Dave

#7 First of all where can find Shiva? I have not heard about that engine yet. NetImmerse is one thing we have in mind. The only problem is that none of have experience with that engine. Me, I was mainly working with Renderware (some GS and Torque) and most others in Unreal. So we are considering all options before we commit ourself to one engine.

I also heard about the AC2 (Turbine Engine) engine. It also has the same "contineous world" technology as the BigWorld Technology.

So some links and details to Shiva would be good.

Goh,
Good point of multi-platform. Guess we have to think about that thing again.

Also, David I was talking more or less in sense of underlying cost of sending parameters without specific optimizations. I have not used Torque in this aspect. This is what I heard from my friends who knows the code. However, I am not sure if this is ALL that is that separate Torque Network from BigWorld technology. Sorry to confuse you on that.

Thanks a lot,
Rakesh

#8 Shiva engine at www.btugames.com/shiva3.htm

Multiplatform was Joshua's point btw.

#9 Sorry Joshua. I misread. Good point and thanks btw.

#10 Also remember that the default usage of Torques netcode, is not indicative of its true potential. I do agree that the current object system is a bit heavy, but the amount of work required to optimize it is negligable compared to trying to improve another engines networking.

#11 Sorry Joshua. I misread. Good point and thanks btw.

#12 Greetings!

One thing to keep in mind if you are looking at commercial game engines that are meant for the MMORPG product space, such as BigWorld and AC2: if you have the resources to use one of them, then you'll likely find that they have more to offer out of the box than Torque/TNL does for MMORPGs. It's their business.

Torque/TNL is more general. I feel confident that it could be used in the MMO space, but there would be some real work involved when it comes to optimization. When you purchase one of the other engines that are meant for a MMO game, that's what (or should be) you're paying for.

It sounds like you guys are not afraid of the work involved (great to hear it!) so it'll likely come down to the age old trade off: time vs. money.

You may also want to check my list of back-end products in my MMO resource:
www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=3405

- LightWave Dave

#13 Torque can be modified to better suit a MMORPG game.
IMO it has much more potential than GS, but that's just me. Haven't tried the newest versions.

As David Wyand says above, what you get from an MMO engine is much of what you will need to code yourself if you go with TGE/TNL. If you consider all that work worth it, then maybe you should consider Bigworld or any of the others.

To me the asking price for Bigworld is too much, and we went with Torque.
And I'm glad we did.

#14 @David
Is the code in the TGE the same as the opentnl code? Or is that code more optimized?

Does anyone know if the netcode in the TSE is the same as TGE?

Thanks for ant answers

#15 The contract information I was talking about is usually in non-competition clauses. If there's nothing like that in your contracts, then you're golden. But most major companies love to put that into contracts simply because it makes them feel secure that their employees won't take their experience and run regardless of whether they use company funds/projects.

The TNL code is more generalized so that it can be used for any engine rather than specifically for the Torque engine. TGE's netcode was the base for TNL and TSE.

#16 I agree about the GS vs Torque. We have instantly dropped GS when we considered Multiplatform.

So if what you are telling is correct about Torque getting modified to be a Nework "companion", about how much of it has to be modified. I agree that it can be modified to full extend since source code is available. But approx how much (I am only looking for Topics for modification)?

We have not looked at the price level comparison yet. Right now, we are collecting all engines out there to compare what it can give us in the long run(that is IMPORTANT than the short run look up of general RPGs). So Torque is defenitly on our list.

Also, since TGE is coming up, we hope we can extent the modification to further level with TGE and so it is good with Torque. We are on the look out for many other engines as well.

For Just a quick overview, How is the net world managed in Torque. For example, we have different map (general one map per Zone). In any map they may be 100s/1000s of users. However, User only connects to one server from outside and once inside, he/she is transported to other maps which are run in different servers. This is the geral Idea we have. Can Torque does this? OR Is there a different method Torque uses?

Many thanks,
Rakesh

#17 Rakesh,

Nevrax is a free mmorpg engine.
www.nevrax.org/


The upcoming game RYZOME is made with this engine.
ryzom.com/

Christophe

#18 Torque can be turned into a MMO engine with some work. There is a MMO called Adellion thats being developed with Torque(www.adellion.com/). Although they're target player base is only 10,000.

what kind of new feature will you have that differ from most MMOs? I know I've got a lot of new ideas for a MMO that I want to develop in the furture(but who doesn't want to make a MMO?).

#19 I don't. I haven't found one that has maintained my interest longer than an hour. Most less.

#20 Be nice if GG made some sort of special package for MMO's.. I'd really like to make an MMORPG someday, but im sure i would rather not switch from torque after i take the good time to learn and love it. ;)