Normal Maps from high poly meshes
by Vernon Finch · in Torque Game Engine Advanced · 09/30/2004 (12:20 am) · 13 replies
I'm sure a lot of people have seen or heard of Unreals features they are touting with their upcoming Unreal 3 engine.
My question relates to the specific point of their Modelling process where they make high poly models and make a normal map from it, and then apply it to a lower poly mesh ingame
I'm of the opinion that anything can be done given enough time and knowledge. I definitely don't have the knowledge here. What would be a path to follow to look to implement this? Is this easy to generate the normal maps if you create a high poly model (and a corresponding low poly model)? I saw some mention of Maya and Max when reading their site the other day, is it a "simple" process in these applications, or are we talking about having to provide a custom tool to get this into the game.
My lab has a bunch of Maya licences and I've been trying to stay away from getting involved, but my summer plans look to have fallen through :( and I'm sorely tempted to start looking into torque earlier than intended.
Basically any information on the process I'd be interested in :)
My question relates to the specific point of their Modelling process where they make high poly models and make a normal map from it, and then apply it to a lower poly mesh ingame
Quote:Most of our characters are built from two meshes: a realtime mesh with thousands of triangles, and a detail mesh with millions of triangles. We provide a distributed-computing application which raytraces the detail mesh and, from its high-polygon geometry, generates a normal map that is applied to the realtime mesh when rendering. The result is in-game objects with all of the lighting detail of the high poly mesh, but that are still easily rendered in real time.
I'm of the opinion that anything can be done given enough time and knowledge. I definitely don't have the knowledge here. What would be a path to follow to look to implement this? Is this easy to generate the normal maps if you create a high poly model (and a corresponding low poly model)? I saw some mention of Maya and Max when reading their site the other day, is it a "simple" process in these applications, or are we talking about having to provide a custom tool to get this into the game.
My lab has a bunch of Maya licences and I've been trying to stay away from getting involved, but my summer plans look to have fallen through :( and I'm sorely tempted to start looking into torque earlier than intended.
Basically any information on the process I'd be interested in :)
#3
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EDIT: Seing as I have an ATI card I popped on over to their site as well, and they have a decent tools section also.
Sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. I'll have to play when I finish work ... which I better get back too :P
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SECOND EDIT: While I'm thinking about it, I don't have the TSE (or TGE) licence yet, so I thought I'd ask if there was more talk about this on the private forums? If so any tutorials?
09/30/2004 (2:43 pm)
Thanks a lot, very helpful :)**********
EDIT: Seing as I have an ATI card I popped on over to their site as well, and they have a decent tools section also.
Quote:NormalMapper generates normal (bump) maps from a high and low-resolution model, for PC and the APPLE platform
Sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. I'll have to play when I finish work ... which I better get back too :P
**********
SECOND EDIT: While I'm thinking about it, I don't have the TSE (or TGE) licence yet, so I thought I'd ask if there was more talk about this on the private forums? If so any tutorials?
#4
In the mean time, if you are an artist (and im thinking you probably are based on your question) use this time to improve your hi-poly modeling or lightmap texturing skills... thats what im doing.
10/02/2004 (6:28 am)
There are only a few tutorials i can think of but nothing too elaborate as of now, vernon. Since TSE is unfinished, I think many of the early adopter owners are waiting for it to be a full release before claiming to be any great master of the technology. As GarageGames says, it CAN and WILL change, so to do anything too monumental wouldnt really be prudent.In the mean time, if you are an artist (and im thinking you probably are based on your question) use this time to improve your hi-poly modeling or lightmap texturing skills... thats what im doing.
#5
Same for the ATI tools, btw.
I suggest you try both sets, and whichever you like best, use :)
Have fun
10/02/2004 (7:03 am)
Melody and the nvidia texture tools do NOT assume you're using an nvidia GPU :)Same for the ATI tools, btw.
I suggest you try both sets, and whichever you like best, use :)
Have fun
#6
10/02/2004 (8:13 am)
Maya 6 has a normal map generator built in. I haven't gotten the hang of it yet but it gets pretty good results. That combined with a bit of fine detail added from photoshop via the nvidia plugin has gone a long way. Also helps that you can preview the normal maps in maya :)
#7
Yea I noticed Melody only required pixel shaders 2.0 and directx9 Nicolas. It looks like it has a nicer GUI and better documentation than ATI's version.
I've only got access to Maya 5. I think I could access 6.0 if I asked nicely, but its not worth annoying some people and hogging their machines when I'm just playing at this stage :)
10/02/2004 (8:55 pm)
Thanx for the insight Adam, I was curious what was going on behind the scenes :)Yea I noticed Melody only required pixel shaders 2.0 and directx9 Nicolas. It looks like it has a nicer GUI and better documentation than ATI's version.
I've only got access to Maya 5. I think I could access 6.0 if I asked nicely, but its not worth annoying some people and hogging their machines when I'm just playing at this stage :)
#8
10/06/2004 (4:38 am)
The latest version of 3ds Max 7 (which will be out any day) also has normal map building tools built in. So what I came here to find out is if TSE supports normal mapping. I'll keep searching, and I'm assuming its a yes, but can someone verify it for me?
#10
4 posts down in this thread Pat Wilson a Garage Game employee confirms it also if you needed further proof :P
My experiments are on hold anyway, as my initial plans that fell through have really just taken a different twist, and I now need the cash I was going to spend on TSE to buy a plane ticket to USA to see my GF (initial plan was she was coming here) ... so back to the original plan of playing with it next year :)
10/06/2004 (4:54 am)
Haha, I just went searching for that thread as well.4 posts down in this thread Pat Wilson a Garage Game employee confirms it also if you needed further proof :P
My experiments are on hold anyway, as my initial plans that fell through have really just taken a different twist, and I now need the cash I was going to spend on TSE to buy a plane ticket to USA to see my GF (initial plan was she was coming here) ... so back to the original plan of playing with it next year :)
#11
10/06/2004 (8:35 am)
Awesome. One more notch on the stick for buying TSE. I'm really seriously leaning toward switching to Max 7 when it comes out. I use gS now. No way gS is even comparable, and the ability to create normal maps in Max 7 has just about sold me on it. Now to get the money to start buying licenses.
#12
I'm using it now and works like a charm.
10/08/2004 (5:34 pm)
I tried melody and hated it myself.. i recommend ORB: http://www.soclab.bth.se/practices/orb.html I'm using it now and works like a charm.
Torque 3D Owner Adam
Adam deGrandis
THe other (which i greatly prefer) is a photoshop plugin also made by Nvidia. It generates normal maps from any texture. There are quite a few options too. This was used to make the normal maps for TSE.
Hope that helps. I dont have the URL's right here, but if you go to Nvidias site and search the terms, you'll get a link.