Advice wanted on putting together a team
by Will Kruss · in General Discussion · 08/22/2004 (5:46 pm) · 38 replies
Hi All,
I'm considering launching into game development. I currently run an unassociated company and have a good cashflow available. However, not the 1-2 mil. required to complete a fully professional game.
Are artists/programmers etc. who want to work in the game industry willing to work for a low wage + royalties? Is this common, or is it, in reality, very difficult to get good people in this manner? The other option is to employ a couple of programmers, and outsource on a pay per model basis.
Also, to create a professional game (3D using a professional engine etc.) what kind of team numbers are required. Realistically I was thinking along the lines of 2 programmers and 3 artists, but in a pretty large-scale project game houses tend to have staff of 15-20 or so working on a single project which simply isn't feasible without the backing of a publisher.
Of course, how far along should a game be before presenting it to a publisher for financial support.
Anyone who has had experience in getting a game off the ground with a budget albeit limited compared to the generally required amount, I would love to hear from them.
Thanks in advance,
- Will Kruss
I'm considering launching into game development. I currently run an unassociated company and have a good cashflow available. However, not the 1-2 mil. required to complete a fully professional game.
Are artists/programmers etc. who want to work in the game industry willing to work for a low wage + royalties? Is this common, or is it, in reality, very difficult to get good people in this manner? The other option is to employ a couple of programmers, and outsource on a pay per model basis.
Also, to create a professional game (3D using a professional engine etc.) what kind of team numbers are required. Realistically I was thinking along the lines of 2 programmers and 3 artists, but in a pretty large-scale project game houses tend to have staff of 15-20 or so working on a single project which simply isn't feasible without the backing of a publisher.
Of course, how far along should a game be before presenting it to a publisher for financial support.
Anyone who has had experience in getting a game off the ground with a budget albeit limited compared to the generally required amount, I would love to hear from them.
Thanks in advance,
- Will Kruss
#2
I'm thinking along the lines of 5 people (2 programmers and 3 artists) on a wage of approx. $27k + 5% royalties for artists and 35k + 7.5% royalties for programmers. This is about as far as the wage budget would stretch. However, with only 5 people working on a relatively large scale game, we'd definitely be looking to get some backing after the 1st year so we can get funding if possible and hence the game finished in 2 years. Note the wages are in AU dollars. In Australia an entry level designers job is around 30-35k, programming 35-40k, however, I would probably be hoping to get someone with some experience, particularly for the programming side.
The other thing I could offer is to rent a large house for accomodation if people did travel here to work and include that in the package.
It's a shame the awesome engines such as CryEngine are not interested in any royalty based purchase of their software, as I'm sure with an engine such as that, not only is programming made easier with the tools they provide (e.g. inbuilt AI options etc.), so shortening development time, but the game is more likely to be successful. From what I've been told you're looking $350kUS + for the engine (this is just 'readsay'), shame they wouldn't take a downpayment of $30k to show you're serious type thing + royalties. Ahh well, I have now offically crapped on and gone way off subject.
Anyhow, love to hear people's thoughts on this. Haven't presented the idea to my business partner as yet, but want to decide in my own mind if it's worth outlaying the risk.
- Will
08/22/2004 (7:29 pm)
Thanks for the quick feedback Nycto. The other issue of course is that I'm based in Australia, so would have to look locally, unless there are skilled people looking to travel and work in Australia for a couple of years on an average wage.I'm thinking along the lines of 5 people (2 programmers and 3 artists) on a wage of approx. $27k + 5% royalties for artists and 35k + 7.5% royalties for programmers. This is about as far as the wage budget would stretch. However, with only 5 people working on a relatively large scale game, we'd definitely be looking to get some backing after the 1st year so we can get funding if possible and hence the game finished in 2 years. Note the wages are in AU dollars. In Australia an entry level designers job is around 30-35k, programming 35-40k, however, I would probably be hoping to get someone with some experience, particularly for the programming side.
The other thing I could offer is to rent a large house for accomodation if people did travel here to work and include that in the package.
It's a shame the awesome engines such as CryEngine are not interested in any royalty based purchase of their software, as I'm sure with an engine such as that, not only is programming made easier with the tools they provide (e.g. inbuilt AI options etc.), so shortening development time, but the game is more likely to be successful. From what I've been told you're looking $350kUS + for the engine (this is just 'readsay'), shame they wouldn't take a downpayment of $30k to show you're serious type thing + royalties. Ahh well, I have now offically crapped on and gone way off subject.
Anyhow, love to hear people's thoughts on this. Haven't presented the idea to my business partner as yet, but want to decide in my own mind if it's worth outlaying the risk.
- Will
#3
Next get a 2D Artist to work out concepts and to help you with a website. Then, a 3d artist. Obviously, the more work that you have done, the more people will want to join. Look at Grav Rally. I'd love to join that project, but sadly, I overlooked it before and lost my chance.
You may want a copyright and/or a lawer to do some of the legal stuff. Trademarks never hurt either.
I don't think that you would need a large house for the people to travel to and from. You may want to meet after the formation of your company and game, but most people can work over email alone. This will save you tons of money!
As far as game engines go, it would be nice to hear what type of game that you would like to produce. Most of them can be done for cheap using the TGE. It works great.
I think that all you really need is to pay 1 programmer, 1 2d artist, and 1 3d artist. Once you get some awesome results, the rest will want to jump on the wagon for just royalties and experience. The people that you will pay are most likely in some sort of other job, so $30,000 should be more than enough. $20,000 is plenty. I'd do it for $5,000 (So I could buy 3ds Max).
Getting into the gaming industry is a great idea, especially now... It's one of the biggest markets in the USA, Europe, and Japan. (Take that movie industry) With the availablilty of artists, programmers, and designers, and people like GG (Who gave us all the TGE for $100USD), the game industry has never been easier to jump into.
08/22/2004 (7:44 pm)
Because you have not yet filled out your development skills, and you want to make games, I'm just gonna asume that you're a designer (Or at least want to be). The first thing that I would work on is getting a game concept doc. done. Around 30 pages of details should be sufficient.Next get a 2D Artist to work out concepts and to help you with a website. Then, a 3d artist. Obviously, the more work that you have done, the more people will want to join. Look at Grav Rally. I'd love to join that project, but sadly, I overlooked it before and lost my chance.
You may want a copyright and/or a lawer to do some of the legal stuff. Trademarks never hurt either.
Quote:The other thing I could offer is to rent a large house for accomodation if people did travel here to work and include that in the package.
I don't think that you would need a large house for the people to travel to and from. You may want to meet after the formation of your company and game, but most people can work over email alone. This will save you tons of money!
As far as game engines go, it would be nice to hear what type of game that you would like to produce. Most of them can be done for cheap using the TGE. It works great.
I think that all you really need is to pay 1 programmer, 1 2d artist, and 1 3d artist. Once you get some awesome results, the rest will want to jump on the wagon for just royalties and experience. The people that you will pay are most likely in some sort of other job, so $30,000 should be more than enough. $20,000 is plenty. I'd do it for $5,000 (So I could buy 3ds Max).
Getting into the gaming industry is a great idea, especially now... It's one of the biggest markets in the USA, Europe, and Japan. (Take that movie industry) With the availablilty of artists, programmers, and designers, and people like GG (Who gave us all the TGE for $100USD), the game industry has never been easier to jump into.
#4
We had a few people that helped out (our sound guy worked for %), but 90% of the work was done by the 3 main team members. If we were to have employed people such as ourselves to make a game like thinktanks.. it would probably have cost about 180K to make it at game industry standard rates.
In terms of team makeup, I would employ one artist for the core assets of the game and outsource the rest and use content packs, stuff from turbo squid, etc.. to fill in the gaps.
Two programmers would probably be ideal, but that depends on the type of game you are doing.
In order to presnet to a publisher.. one level, fully done with finished art, with the core gameplay done.
Note that our company is available to take on art and programming contract work to help get projects done (our rates are high by indie standards, but reasonable for the work we do)
08/22/2004 (7:58 pm)
Our company, BraveTree, had 3 full time employess while we worked on ThinkTanks.. all working for 'free', living off of our savings. 1 programmer, 2 artists.We had a few people that helped out (our sound guy worked for %), but 90% of the work was done by the 3 main team members. If we were to have employed people such as ourselves to make a game like thinktanks.. it would probably have cost about 180K to make it at game industry standard rates.
In terms of team makeup, I would employ one artist for the core assets of the game and outsource the rest and use content packs, stuff from turbo squid, etc.. to fill in the gaps.
Two programmers would probably be ideal, but that depends on the type of game you are doing.
In order to presnet to a publisher.. one level, fully done with finished art, with the core gameplay done.
Note that our company is available to take on art and programming contract work to help get projects done (our rates are high by indie standards, but reasonable for the work we do)
#5
A little brief on myself: I'm currently the director of a web hosting company. Employing 6 staff and hosting over 13000 domains. I'm also the lead technical server administrator, company accounts manager (we have a complex three company setup for tax reasons), and am quite proficient in coding in VB.NET and VB languages. Unfortunately at this stage haven't spent any time learning C++.
With regards to the 'house', I was thinking for skilled people if they wanted to come over to AU to work, I could provide them accomodation as part of the salary pkg.
I suppose the issues I see arising from some of the points mentioned above is relying on people working from their homes etc. it's hard to know how much work is actually being achieved (for salaried staff), and also doesn't really equate to a 'team' environment which would be so important on a 2 year project where there are a few key members. In an ideal world the team would work in the one place. However, this isn't an ideal world, and perhaps having people work from home might be the next best thing.
TGE does look like a definite option as far as a decent 3D engine goes, there are a few options around.
I'm pretty sure I can work the sound, as my business partner was a video sound producer in a former life, as well as a musician.
To keep to deadlines I would prefer the major players to be salaried, if only to enable them to function as human beings without worrying about how to pay the bills at the same time. But that would have to be in an office in Australia in reality (even if it's just the lead programmer and designer), and the rest essentially hired through the net and places like GG.
Anyhow, this is certainly looking more like an feasible option, I didn't realise how many games were being created (and people working) on essentially goodwill.
Creating a document for the game design would be no problem, and if we decide to go ahead and investigate this further I'll probably post it here for d/l.
Thanks all.
Joe: You have got a javascript error on the first page of www.bravetree.com. If we decide to go ahead would you like me to personally send you a copy of the design document incase you are interested in some kind of partnership.
- Will
08/22/2004 (8:20 pm)
Thanks for the replies Joe and George.A little brief on myself: I'm currently the director of a web hosting company. Employing 6 staff and hosting over 13000 domains. I'm also the lead technical server administrator, company accounts manager (we have a complex three company setup for tax reasons), and am quite proficient in coding in VB.NET and VB languages. Unfortunately at this stage haven't spent any time learning C++.
With regards to the 'house', I was thinking for skilled people if they wanted to come over to AU to work, I could provide them accomodation as part of the salary pkg.
I suppose the issues I see arising from some of the points mentioned above is relying on people working from their homes etc. it's hard to know how much work is actually being achieved (for salaried staff), and also doesn't really equate to a 'team' environment which would be so important on a 2 year project where there are a few key members. In an ideal world the team would work in the one place. However, this isn't an ideal world, and perhaps having people work from home might be the next best thing.
TGE does look like a definite option as far as a decent 3D engine goes, there are a few options around.
I'm pretty sure I can work the sound, as my business partner was a video sound producer in a former life, as well as a musician.
To keep to deadlines I would prefer the major players to be salaried, if only to enable them to function as human beings without worrying about how to pay the bills at the same time. But that would have to be in an office in Australia in reality (even if it's just the lead programmer and designer), and the rest essentially hired through the net and places like GG.
Anyhow, this is certainly looking more like an feasible option, I didn't realise how many games were being created (and people working) on essentially goodwill.
Creating a document for the game design would be no problem, and if we decide to go ahead and investigate this further I'll probably post it here for d/l.
Thanks all.
Joe: You have got a javascript error on the first page of www.bravetree.com. If we decide to go ahead would you like me to personally send you a copy of the design document incase you are interested in some kind of partnership.
- Will
#6
Those 15-20 people teams are no better off than very close and effective 3 person team, IMHO. Might be even worse, as it could be a chore coordinating all of them and they'd be quite a money-burner (plus, once you've reached the critical mass, people tend to form factions, grind axes etc.). Remember: small rebel cells are the most effective :)
08/22/2004 (11:31 pm)
I think setup like yours would be best off with key devs up-close and farming not-so-essential parts out. About the salary, i doubt you'll find the right answers in forums, because it depends too much on various factors - how well you know those people, are they really sure they want to enter game business, do they believe enough in project to risk, and do they believe in you enough.Those 15-20 people teams are no better off than very close and effective 3 person team, IMHO. Might be even worse, as it could be a chore coordinating all of them and they'd be quite a money-burner (plus, once you've reached the critical mass, people tend to form factions, grind axes etc.). Remember: small rebel cells are the most effective :)
#7
I tend to agree with you. I'm going to start putting together a game concept document which will also help me define the game in more detail. I've spoken to my business partner now and we believe we'll attempt to get one 1 programmer and 1 3d designer locally and go from there considering advice we will get from them with regards to their needs and what they'll feel comfortable with.
I think a larger team of 15-20 can work if you have a very organised project leader and good design and program team leaders who can assign specific job to appropriate people. However, obviously as you mentioned politics can end up damaging production deadlines as well as generally add to an unhappy mood which you don't want in any environment.
Anyhow, I've got a lot to consider, and at this stage it looks like we'll go ahead with the preparation stage of the project as personally I have faith in it.
- Will
08/23/2004 (2:09 am)
Hi Nauris,I tend to agree with you. I'm going to start putting together a game concept document which will also help me define the game in more detail. I've spoken to my business partner now and we believe we'll attempt to get one 1 programmer and 1 3d designer locally and go from there considering advice we will get from them with regards to their needs and what they'll feel comfortable with.
I think a larger team of 15-20 can work if you have a very organised project leader and good design and program team leaders who can assign specific job to appropriate people. However, obviously as you mentioned politics can end up damaging production deadlines as well as generally add to an unhappy mood which you don't want in any environment.
Anyhow, I've got a lot to consider, and at this stage it looks like we'll go ahead with the preparation stage of the project as personally I have faith in it.
- Will
#8
08/23/2004 (2:32 am)
Where abouts in Australia are you out of interest?
#10
A comment on large teams.
If your detailed design documents are very detailed and coders are able to provide feedback on them, and you refine them enough, then very large teams aren't a problem.
If you do it right, a programmer(even one just joining a team) should be able to check out a detailed object design requirement, code the object based on the requirement, follow the Test Plan document for testing the object, and then checkin an implemented object with very little management overhead.
08/23/2004 (5:31 pm)
A comment on A comment on large teams.
If your detailed design documents are very detailed and coders are able to provide feedback on them, and you refine them enough, then very large teams aren't a problem.
If you do it right, a programmer(even one just joining a team) should be able to check out a detailed object design requirement, code the object based on the requirement, follow the Test Plan document for testing the object, and then checkin an implemented object with very little management overhead.
#11
Will,
we have too much going on with our own games right now to enter into any sort of partnership arrangment, but I would like to check out the design document all the same. If it is a stellar idea, there may be possibilities there, and again, we are available for contracting or consulting if you decide to go with the TGE/TSE, as we have a lot of experience with the engine.
Joe
08/23/2004 (6:25 pm)
Quote:If we decide to go ahead would you like me to personally send you a copy of the design document incase you are interested in some kind of partnership.
Will,
we have too much going on with our own games right now to enter into any sort of partnership arrangment, but I would like to check out the design document all the same. If it is a stellar idea, there may be possibilities there, and again, we are available for contracting or consulting if you decide to go with the TGE/TSE, as we have a lot of experience with the engine.
Joe
#12
08/23/2004 (6:49 pm)
Http://rentacoder.com is a good place to hire programmers to do some small piece of code.
#13
Together you shoudl be able to get a design doc written, asess what tools you need, get some concept art and an experimental tech demo that shows off the look and feel of the game and gameplay. With a small team and a modified existing engine that you are somewhat familiar with, it shoudl take about 2 month to put a nice demo together.
It's REALY hard to get a commercial publisher even with a experienced team and good titles under your belt, so once you have your demo, nows the time you have to decide if you believe in what your doing and want to spend the next 6-18 months creating your game with the hope of making a commercial success of your project. It's about this time that you will have to also start considering some extra bodies to help get production rolling at full steam.
Good luck with your game development business, hope you get to a good strt and end upa success :)
08/23/2004 (9:22 pm)
Definately start small, as you really don't want a team of artists sitting aroudn with nothing usefull to do. I've generally worked with core teams that consist of your Core engine programmer, a Game designer that does bot art and coding, A game designers role can be a little foggy, often they work in the cor team developing the game concepts, and gameplay. But often they also develop art tools like art path tools from 3D apps to the engine etc. And you will most likely want the guy thats going to be your Art Director.Together you shoudl be able to get a design doc written, asess what tools you need, get some concept art and an experimental tech demo that shows off the look and feel of the game and gameplay. With a small team and a modified existing engine that you are somewhat familiar with, it shoudl take about 2 month to put a nice demo together.
It's REALY hard to get a commercial publisher even with a experienced team and good titles under your belt, so once you have your demo, nows the time you have to decide if you believe in what your doing and want to spend the next 6-18 months creating your game with the hope of making a commercial success of your project. It's about this time that you will have to also start considering some extra bodies to help get production rolling at full steam.
Good luck with your game development business, hope you get to a good strt and end upa success :)
#14
Thank you very much for your advice.
Adrian: Sounds like a good idea, I can't see quite getting a decent demo done in 2 months, but will aim at having a demo of some sort after 6, and a playable demo after 12. With regards to commercial publishers, at this stage I was planning to approach one after 12 months on the project, with hopefully by then, what I believe to be a good playable demo. Would that be a better idea if my funding can go that far, than presenting a lesser product...or are publishers more likely even after seeing it the first time to say 'well, we don't want to back it yet, however, show us what you've got in 6 months time'. I guess I'm asking, do they tend to give a 'second chance' further down the track in development, or are they more likely to give you a one shot at presentation (providing you can pull the strings to present it of course)?
Thanks,
- Will
08/23/2004 (9:34 pm)
Hey All,Thank you very much for your advice.
Adrian: Sounds like a good idea, I can't see quite getting a decent demo done in 2 months, but will aim at having a demo of some sort after 6, and a playable demo after 12. With regards to commercial publishers, at this stage I was planning to approach one after 12 months on the project, with hopefully by then, what I believe to be a good playable demo. Would that be a better idea if my funding can go that far, than presenting a lesser product...or are publishers more likely even after seeing it the first time to say 'well, we don't want to back it yet, however, show us what you've got in 6 months time'. I guess I'm asking, do they tend to give a 'second chance' further down the track in development, or are they more likely to give you a one shot at presentation (providing you can pull the strings to present it of course)?
Thanks,
- Will
#15
@Will: Melbourne is the centre of game development as far as Australia goes. There aren't too many active Australians on GG, but you'll find them now and then. Devon Ly is one from Melbourne; Dylan Sale is another in Adelaide and I'm becoming a bit more active too.
If you're looking for Australians, you're best to go over to Sumea and post a few questions there. It's a lot more Australian-centric than GG is.
There's plenty of good advice on teams here, and my advice would be to stay local if you can, especially if you're offering salaries. Melbourne has a great concentration of talent, there's no reason why you can't find the experience necessary. If you can't find the resources to pay people salaries, if you offer a small amount of pay on GG, you're likely to get people interested, but the quality of people may vary. Have a look at my recent .plan, it may help you out a small fraction.
Stick to a 'small rebel cell' as Nauris put it. Get as much experience from the team as you can. Also, consider what role you want to play in the team, as that will significantly affect the team dynamic.
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Paul.
08/24/2004 (2:46 am)
@Synditech: I've not seen you round before; I'm in Adelaide too. Go to Adelindie and get known.@Will: Melbourne is the centre of game development as far as Australia goes. There aren't too many active Australians on GG, but you'll find them now and then. Devon Ly is one from Melbourne; Dylan Sale is another in Adelaide and I'm becoming a bit more active too.
If you're looking for Australians, you're best to go over to Sumea and post a few questions there. It's a lot more Australian-centric than GG is.
There's plenty of good advice on teams here, and my advice would be to stay local if you can, especially if you're offering salaries. Melbourne has a great concentration of talent, there's no reason why you can't find the experience necessary. If you can't find the resources to pay people salaries, if you offer a small amount of pay on GG, you're likely to get people interested, but the quality of people may vary. Have a look at my recent .plan, it may help you out a small fraction.
Stick to a 'small rebel cell' as Nauris put it. Get as much experience from the team as you can. Also, consider what role you want to play in the team, as that will significantly affect the team dynamic.
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Paul.
#16
Thank you very much for your post. I'll definitely check out Sumea.
We do have the ability to pay a base wage (somewhere around 30k AUD - enough to live on) + royalties, so hopefully we can get some talented people locally on the job full time, and work from there. I suppose this may differ from most of the project I've seen mentioned here as we will be hiring people full time. I read your article and definitely agree with everything you've said, and certainly that is not limited to artists (as I haven't worked directly with artists since I worked at Deakin Uni in the course development area). I'll be looking to have my team leaders working full time from our office so we can keep each other motivated on the project.
As mentioned I already run a company and we actually rent a large 5 bedroom house on the beach as an office which our existing employees really enjoy. Having a few new faces around wouldn't be a bad thing at all.
My role in the team would obviously be game design and project leader. In that capacity I would coordinate with my team exactly what specific jobs artists and programmers are working on, set achievable goals within the team, and try to keep everyone motivated to achieve those goals.
I have a team leader role at the moment and feel I do a very good job, I have a great relationship and friendship with the people I employ (none of which were known to me before their employment). I find I have no problem with in depth organisation and prioritisation that some people do seem to find difficult at times.
I don't however have the artists skills, or the level of programming skills to really help at the grass roots level. I do however have an understanding of both, and what both entail, so I'm hoping I can relate to the members of the team and what they're attempting to achieve at any one time.
You'll probably see me posting on Adelindie and/or Sumea. One of the people we actually employ in our client accounts department used to work for a game company in Melbourne that was designing a flight sim, unfortunately it ended up folding I believe shortly before we hired her.
Thanks for your suggestions Paul, hadn't managed to find those forums on my own!!
- Will
08/24/2004 (3:43 am)
Hey Paul,Thank you very much for your post. I'll definitely check out Sumea.
We do have the ability to pay a base wage (somewhere around 30k AUD - enough to live on) + royalties, so hopefully we can get some talented people locally on the job full time, and work from there. I suppose this may differ from most of the project I've seen mentioned here as we will be hiring people full time. I read your article and definitely agree with everything you've said, and certainly that is not limited to artists (as I haven't worked directly with artists since I worked at Deakin Uni in the course development area). I'll be looking to have my team leaders working full time from our office so we can keep each other motivated on the project.
As mentioned I already run a company and we actually rent a large 5 bedroom house on the beach as an office which our existing employees really enjoy. Having a few new faces around wouldn't be a bad thing at all.
My role in the team would obviously be game design and project leader. In that capacity I would coordinate with my team exactly what specific jobs artists and programmers are working on, set achievable goals within the team, and try to keep everyone motivated to achieve those goals.
I have a team leader role at the moment and feel I do a very good job, I have a great relationship and friendship with the people I employ (none of which were known to me before their employment). I find I have no problem with in depth organisation and prioritisation that some people do seem to find difficult at times.
I don't however have the artists skills, or the level of programming skills to really help at the grass roots level. I do however have an understanding of both, and what both entail, so I'm hoping I can relate to the members of the team and what they're attempting to achieve at any one time.
You'll probably see me posting on Adelindie and/or Sumea. One of the people we actually employ in our client accounts department used to work for a game company in Melbourne that was designing a flight sim, unfortunately it ended up folding I believe shortly before we hired her.
Thanks for your suggestions Paul, hadn't managed to find those forums on my own!!
- Will
#17
08/24/2004 (7:41 pm)
@Paul: Just found those forums couple of days ago :) (my username is SHaRD On those forums)
#18
@Will: 30K AUS is about standard for entry level commercial developers, so no doubt you will get a flurry of applications if you advertise on Sumea and Adelindie. It's especially interesting and cool to see it coming out of your own pocket. Indie development needs more philanthropists!
If you are seriously thinking about forming a team, consider carefully the skills in the team composition. Make sure you _really_ nail down the skills and attributes and that you don't have too much overlap (I'm sure you know all this, but game development can be a risky business, even if you're getting paid). Have a chat to successful indie teams and see how they did it.
If you want to get some insight into your own role and making a startup, have a talk to Ivan Beram. He's starting up Intrigue Entertainment (though it hasn't been updated in a while). He was considering moving to Melbourne, but he's probably still in Sydney. Either way, you can't deny his credentials... he was promoted to lead designer on FarCry and his ideas made the game what it was, and it's worth e-mailing him to ask his advice. He's a nice guy, and comes across a bit introverted, but he's got the passion which I think is the main thing lacking in Australia game development today.
Send me an e-mail and I can pass on the details.
Cheers,
Paul.
08/25/2004 (8:40 pm)
@Synditech: Yeah I just noticed you on there. Good to see that there are a few cross-forum people hanging out in the same places. My username is 'paulm' (oddly enough).@Will: 30K AUS is about standard for entry level commercial developers, so no doubt you will get a flurry of applications if you advertise on Sumea and Adelindie. It's especially interesting and cool to see it coming out of your own pocket. Indie development needs more philanthropists!
If you are seriously thinking about forming a team, consider carefully the skills in the team composition. Make sure you _really_ nail down the skills and attributes and that you don't have too much overlap (I'm sure you know all this, but game development can be a risky business, even if you're getting paid). Have a chat to successful indie teams and see how they did it.
If you want to get some insight into your own role and making a startup, have a talk to Ivan Beram. He's starting up Intrigue Entertainment (though it hasn't been updated in a while). He was considering moving to Melbourne, but he's probably still in Sydney. Either way, you can't deny his credentials... he was promoted to lead designer on FarCry and his ideas made the game what it was, and it's worth e-mailing him to ask his advice. He's a nice guy, and comes across a bit introverted, but he's got the passion which I think is the main thing lacking in Australia game development today.
Send me an e-mail and I can pass on the details.
Cheers,
Paul.
#19
I've sent you an email. Would love to be able to get in touch with Ivan.
- Will
08/25/2004 (9:28 pm)
Hi Paul,I've sent you an email. Would love to be able to get in touch with Ivan.
- Will
#20
If you haven't done it already, go to Gamasutra and get registered there, and see about getting a comp subscription to Game Developer magazine. The Postmortem section and the Soapbox columns are not only fun reading, but provide valuable insight as to the pitfalls of game development. Remember the old saying: Nobody is totally useless. They can always serve as a bad example.
As a final bit of advice, expect the worst. Be passionate about your game, dream lovely dreams of screaming fans becoming legion around the globe, but plan like you're about to be thrown out into the street without any hope of getting your next meal. That way, when Mr. Murphy and his twisted bag of tricks show up with the sole purpose of utterly destroying everything you've built to date, you'll be ready for anything, and you'll be able to continue on with a minimal bump in efficiency.
Good luck. :)
08/26/2004 (10:24 am)
Will, probably the smartest move you've made so far is keeping everybody together in one location. While it is possible to develop with everybody scattered all over the world (as Derek Smart did with Battlecruiser Millenium), it's not an ideal situation and can lead to problems.If you haven't done it already, go to Gamasutra and get registered there, and see about getting a comp subscription to Game Developer magazine. The Postmortem section and the Soapbox columns are not only fun reading, but provide valuable insight as to the pitfalls of game development. Remember the old saying: Nobody is totally useless. They can always serve as a bad example.
As a final bit of advice, expect the worst. Be passionate about your game, dream lovely dreams of screaming fans becoming legion around the globe, but plan like you're about to be thrown out into the street without any hope of getting your next meal. That way, when Mr. Murphy and his twisted bag of tricks show up with the sole purpose of utterly destroying everything you've built to date, you'll be ready for anything, and you'll be able to continue on with a minimal bump in efficiency.
Good luck. :)
James "Nycto" Frasca
In my limited experience, it has seemed more difficult to find programmers than artist. If you offer compensation, then I'm almost certain you won't have a problem filling your team with quality individuals.