Non Violent games in a time of too much violence
by Forrest B. Walker · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 10/10/2001 (2:09 pm) · 46 replies
The last two threads I started received predictable responses. Remember, I spent many years in this industry, and I know what appeals to the majority of you.
I really did not expect my lawyer game to get any support, or that I would hear much agreement on the reasoning that games seem to be just clones of each other.
But I did not mention the one thing that truly bothers me about the way a lot of really smart people choose to make a living, virtual violence.
I do NOT claim that violence in games or TV or movies begets violence in real life. I will leave that to people who can defend the thesis better than I. However, when I watched a United 757 slam into the WTC, I had about as much fear, pain, vile, hurt as I have when I see a big red blob splash blood all over my crt. I, thru the years I spent seeing that stuff ten hours a day 7 days a week, am immune to it. That really bugs me. I am not suffering from the Reagan syndrome (he thought movies were real life!). I am suffering from an overload of violence. FPS games are the absolute worst in desensitizing a person to abhorrent acts. I quit working in the industry when my son was old enough to look over my shoulder at work I brought home. I went to work on search engines, wall street software, e-commerce. The work environment was not as much fun, but then I could tell my boy not to play with war toys, and not feel like a hypocrite.
OK BLAST AWAY!
But when you do, mention a non violent game you love to play. One where no one dies.
I really did not expect my lawyer game to get any support, or that I would hear much agreement on the reasoning that games seem to be just clones of each other.
But I did not mention the one thing that truly bothers me about the way a lot of really smart people choose to make a living, virtual violence.
I do NOT claim that violence in games or TV or movies begets violence in real life. I will leave that to people who can defend the thesis better than I. However, when I watched a United 757 slam into the WTC, I had about as much fear, pain, vile, hurt as I have when I see a big red blob splash blood all over my crt. I, thru the years I spent seeing that stuff ten hours a day 7 days a week, am immune to it. That really bugs me. I am not suffering from the Reagan syndrome (he thought movies were real life!). I am suffering from an overload of violence. FPS games are the absolute worst in desensitizing a person to abhorrent acts. I quit working in the industry when my son was old enough to look over my shoulder at work I brought home. I went to work on search engines, wall street software, e-commerce. The work environment was not as much fun, but then I could tell my boy not to play with war toys, and not feel like a hypocrite.
OK BLAST AWAY!
But when you do, mention a non violent game you love to play. One where no one dies.
About the author
#42
I did some research on how violent video games and TV affects people. What I found was that people have many states of mind to deal with different situations. That is why you can laugh at someone flying 50 off a motor bike on something like RealTV (its a tv show if you havent seen it). Your mind is in a state that allowes you to cope with what you are seeing, the same goes with computer games you go into a different state of mind that allowes you to blow limbs off your opponents without a second thought.
I play Counter-Strike alot and when I went paintballing for the first time I found that I was having a hard time shooting people because I was using the same state of mind as I do when I play Counter-Strike. Violent video games and violence on tv dont normally affect our everyday lives. If a person, lets say a student at a highschool, is in a situation where the only way to deal with it is to go into a different state of mind. If that state of mind happens to be the same one they use to deal with the things in a violent computer game, they would deal with the situation in the same way possibly resulting in a shooting.
This is just what I have found and is in no way proven fact. The mind using different states to deal with situations is somthing I found in a psycology article.
06/05/2002 (10:45 am)
I am sorry if this was said further up in the thread but it is way to long to completly read.I did some research on how violent video games and TV affects people. What I found was that people have many states of mind to deal with different situations. That is why you can laugh at someone flying 50 off a motor bike on something like RealTV (its a tv show if you havent seen it). Your mind is in a state that allowes you to cope with what you are seeing, the same goes with computer games you go into a different state of mind that allowes you to blow limbs off your opponents without a second thought.
I play Counter-Strike alot and when I went paintballing for the first time I found that I was having a hard time shooting people because I was using the same state of mind as I do when I play Counter-Strike. Violent video games and violence on tv dont normally affect our everyday lives. If a person, lets say a student at a highschool, is in a situation where the only way to deal with it is to go into a different state of mind. If that state of mind happens to be the same one they use to deal with the things in a violent computer game, they would deal with the situation in the same way possibly resulting in a shooting.
This is just what I have found and is in no way proven fact. The mind using different states to deal with situations is somthing I found in a psycology article.
#43
What do educational programs do? Make you learn a bit.
What do erotic films do? Well uh, you know.
What do comedies do? Make you laugh!
So what makes humans impervious to any sort of influence relating to their desire to be violent? It certainly works with sex, humor, learning, and money!
This is just a different way I look at things. Something I came to think about with a research paper on rating systems with music, film, television and games in which our professor asked that we try to come up with a conclusion different from those we found in our research.
Instead of thinking why it does, think if it can't.
06/05/2002 (12:04 pm)
What do commercials do? Make you want to buy their product.What do educational programs do? Make you learn a bit.
What do erotic films do? Well uh, you know.
What do comedies do? Make you laugh!
So what makes humans impervious to any sort of influence relating to their desire to be violent? It certainly works with sex, humor, learning, and money!
This is just a different way I look at things. Something I came to think about with a research paper on rating systems with music, film, television and games in which our professor asked that we try to come up with a conclusion different from those we found in our research.
Instead of thinking why it does, think if it can't.
#44
-Kenn
06/08/2002 (10:13 pm)
When considering violence in video games, consider this: we game developers are entertainers, just like any movie actor, Broadway singer, or novelist. Therefore as entertainers we cannot be successful unless we give the populace what they want. Knowing this, ask yourself which came first. Was it violent games or violent society? I believe it was violent society. Now then, what made society violent? I believe awareness made our society violent. As we become more aware of the violent natures of others, our own natures become more violent. Violence breeds violence. The reason the argument about violence and video games is such a stalemate is because the relation between society and entertainment forms a particularly vicious catch-22. If we stop making violent games, then our industry will suffer because the populace demands violent games. However, by giving the populace the drug it is so addicted to we make the addiction worse. Like I said, violence breeds violence. It's a degenerate cycle speeding our society to oblivion...but it's a cycle that cannot be stopped.-Kenn
#45
Kenn Austin: I see what you mean, but I think the cycle is tied into the publishers fear of daikatana'ing-it-up, and hence pushing clones of various games. I play a lot of Q3, which is pretty much the other side of the camp, but I can see that CounterStrike can be a lot of fun.
These kind of games make you feel cool (especially when they demand a decent level of skill, and you've got it).
I don't know if it's wrong, but bogart in casablanca makes smoking a cigarette look cool. Chow Yun-Fat in hardboiled makes killing a load of people look cool, as does Keanu in the Matrix (though not quite as much :). Things that are Bad and Wrong can be cool too. Maybe that's the problem.
You can get the same buzz getting to a high level on tetris as you can by dueling someone on tourney4 (well, just about :), so maybe it really comes down to games sucking vs. not sucking. I think another thing that maybe is relevant is the fact that playing violent games doesn't stop anyone buying a playing non violent games and vice versa.
Make a really good non-violent game, cool, I'll buy it. Make a really good violent game, cool, I'll buy it. Make a half arsed attempt at both (mortal kombat, snes, green blood) and I will not buy it. It's not that I don't play games that have a political agenda, or a message, it's just that they tend to be bad. Deer Hunter is so powerful in its message because it's a really, really good film. No one makes games like that.
06/12/2002 (4:23 pm)
Anthony Rosenbaum: You do realise GTA 1 was a really very big hit doncha :) And GTA3 does bring something different to it, and it satisfies my primary above-all criteria for a game: it's fun. Kenn Austin: I see what you mean, but I think the cycle is tied into the publishers fear of daikatana'ing-it-up, and hence pushing clones of various games. I play a lot of Q3, which is pretty much the other side of the camp, but I can see that CounterStrike can be a lot of fun.
These kind of games make you feel cool (especially when they demand a decent level of skill, and you've got it).
I don't know if it's wrong, but bogart in casablanca makes smoking a cigarette look cool. Chow Yun-Fat in hardboiled makes killing a load of people look cool, as does Keanu in the Matrix (though not quite as much :). Things that are Bad and Wrong can be cool too. Maybe that's the problem.
You can get the same buzz getting to a high level on tetris as you can by dueling someone on tourney4 (well, just about :), so maybe it really comes down to games sucking vs. not sucking. I think another thing that maybe is relevant is the fact that playing violent games doesn't stop anyone buying a playing non violent games and vice versa.
Make a really good non-violent game, cool, I'll buy it. Make a really good violent game, cool, I'll buy it. Make a half arsed attempt at both (mortal kombat, snes, green blood) and I will not buy it. It's not that I don't play games that have a political agenda, or a message, it's just that they tend to be bad. Deer Hunter is so powerful in its message because it's a really, really good film. No one makes games like that.
#46
Interesting philisopical look at GTA3.
06/12/2002 (4:37 pm)
www.igda.org/Endeavors/Articles/rreynolds_intro.htmInteresting philisopical look at GTA3.
Associate Anthony Rosenbaum