Confused about MultiRes and more...
by Lars Boldt · in Torque Game Engine · 07/25/2004 (5:55 pm) · 12 replies
Questions:
1) Doesn't the Torque Demo show automatic multires on the orc at the point where you can drag the slider up and down? Why do we need to do anything manually then?
2) Is the Max 6 exporter supporting MultiRes or not at this point? Went through a 60 reply long thread and I couldn't really tell wether it's working or not. If it is, how do you use it, and even more interestingly, where do you get the max 6 exporter that works properly?
3) At what point, in polys, does multires become useful? I know it will be useful at any point where it can reduce polys but at shapes with 300>polys does it make any noticeable difference?
The reason I ask this is because with the bravetree's treepack my framerate suck as much at max view distance as it does when i'm in the middle of a forest, aslong as the camera face the forest, and as far as I know these are suppose to have multires.
4) The latest nVidia drivers 6x.xx doesn't significally improve the Torque trouble I have with the GeForce FX5900XT card. With the GeForce Ti4600 I have on another computer everything is super smooth. I get very bad mouse lag in the Torque ingame editors, framerate is generally 20 lower than on the Ti4600 card. I know i've raised this issue before, but...something is not right here.
You can blame nVidia all you want, but fact is that this issue only happens with Torque and 1-2 other old games. Some type of technology used in Torque and those other two games totally crash with the new GeForce cards. Now last time I complained about this we were told to wait for the new nvidia drivers, well they are here, and it still isn't good.
I can't honestly say Torque is a top AAA game engine when it performes badly on the newest cards from nVidia, I mean, it's not like i'm asking for support for an old RivaTnT card...
And please don't reply with a "it's your computer that sucks...". My computer runs all other games smoothly, I play atleast 40-50% of the new games released, big titles anyway, and noone of them have trouble with my computer.
I am not asking for 100fps at 2000xwhatever resolution, but at 800x600 and 1024x768 torque should not give me 10-20fps and bad mouse lag in editors when an older card on older hardware runs the same config at 30-50fps with no mouse lag at all.
Lars
1) Doesn't the Torque Demo show automatic multires on the orc at the point where you can drag the slider up and down? Why do we need to do anything manually then?
2) Is the Max 6 exporter supporting MultiRes or not at this point? Went through a 60 reply long thread and I couldn't really tell wether it's working or not. If it is, how do you use it, and even more interestingly, where do you get the max 6 exporter that works properly?
3) At what point, in polys, does multires become useful? I know it will be useful at any point where it can reduce polys but at shapes with 300>polys does it make any noticeable difference?
The reason I ask this is because with the bravetree's treepack my framerate suck as much at max view distance as it does when i'm in the middle of a forest, aslong as the camera face the forest, and as far as I know these are suppose to have multires.
4) The latest nVidia drivers 6x.xx doesn't significally improve the Torque trouble I have with the GeForce FX5900XT card. With the GeForce Ti4600 I have on another computer everything is super smooth. I get very bad mouse lag in the Torque ingame editors, framerate is generally 20 lower than on the Ti4600 card. I know i've raised this issue before, but...something is not right here.
You can blame nVidia all you want, but fact is that this issue only happens with Torque and 1-2 other old games. Some type of technology used in Torque and those other two games totally crash with the new GeForce cards. Now last time I complained about this we were told to wait for the new nvidia drivers, well they are here, and it still isn't good.
I can't honestly say Torque is a top AAA game engine when it performes badly on the newest cards from nVidia, I mean, it's not like i'm asking for support for an old RivaTnT card...
And please don't reply with a "it's your computer that sucks...". My computer runs all other games smoothly, I play atleast 40-50% of the new games released, big titles anyway, and noone of them have trouble with my computer.
I am not asking for 100fps at 2000xwhatever resolution, but at 800x600 and 1024x768 torque should not give me 10-20fps and bad mouse lag in editors when an older card on older hardware runs the same config at 30-50fps with no mouse lag at all.
Lars
About the author
#3
All my hardware is pretty much left at factory settings when installed. No, i'm not mr. tweaky. Like I said, this isn't an issue I have with all games, it's only torque and 1-2 more.
I tried the triangle option but nothing major happened. If I mess with AA I get the pink/purple/green colors on buildings again so when I use factory settings that atleast works properly aside from the mouse lag and fps issue.
Back to multires, can anyone point me to a good tutorial that explains how to set up good multires manually in Max 6?
Is it just a matter of using an optimize modifier and add more detail dummys to base and the rest of the shapes to start using the same number behind?
Like,
detail 50 - shape50 Close up, highest poly.
detail 100 - shape100 Middle, 30% poly rate.
detail 200 - shape200 Far away, 3% polys...
or something like that...?
Lars
07/25/2004 (7:02 pm)
Thanks for the answers guys. All my hardware is pretty much left at factory settings when installed. No, i'm not mr. tweaky. Like I said, this isn't an issue I have with all games, it's only torque and 1-2 more.
I tried the triangle option but nothing major happened. If I mess with AA I get the pink/purple/green colors on buildings again so when I use factory settings that atleast works properly aside from the mouse lag and fps issue.
Back to multires, can anyone point me to a good tutorial that explains how to set up good multires manually in Max 6?
Is it just a matter of using an optimize modifier and add more detail dummys to base and the rest of the shapes to start using the same number behind?
Like,
detail 50 - shape50 Close up, highest poly.
detail 100 - shape100 Middle, 30% poly rate.
detail 200 - shape200 Far away, 3% polys...
or something like that...?
Lars
#4
07/26/2004 (9:29 am)
Noone can confirm if this is the way to do it manually?
#5
07/26/2004 (11:14 am)
Have you read the DTS exporter documentation closely? It covers how to do this in some detail.
#6
There are a few under 3D studio max. Some are outdated, some doesn't work, can you point me to the one you was talking about please?
Thanks
Lars
07/26/2004 (4:20 pm)
Which documentation are you referring to?There are a few under 3D studio max. Some are outdated, some doesn't work, can you point me to the one you was talking about please?
Thanks
Lars
#7
www.garagegames.com/docs/torque/general/
and specifically to this section:
www.garagegames.com/docs/torque/general/ch08.php
07/26/2004 (5:51 pm)
He is referring to the docs contained in the general documentation here:www.garagegames.com/docs/torque/general/
and specifically to this section:
www.garagegames.com/docs/torque/general/ch08.php
#8
for meshed tht use the skin modifier, just make sure that each mesh is adjusted and contains the 'skin' modifier. Each mesh must be unlinked and each mesh should end in a number that corrensponds to a detail marker.
Make sure that if you try to apply MR to a skin mesh, that it is under the skin modifier (not above).. and then do a 'collapse to' under the skin before exporting.
adding multires to a 'skin' object used to crash max (back in version 3).. I have no idea if it still does so.
07/26/2004 (7:05 pm)
How to set up detail levels manually depends on the shape. For shapes that do not use the 'skin' modifier, just make a copy of the mesh for each detail youi want, create the markers, apply multires, adjust fot each mesh, collapse the stack. Make sure all but the highest detail level are unlinked and at the scene root. for meshed tht use the skin modifier, just make sure that each mesh is adjusted and contains the 'skin' modifier. Each mesh must be unlinked and each mesh should end in a number that corrensponds to a detail marker.
Make sure that if you try to apply MR to a skin mesh, that it is under the skin modifier (not above).. and then do a 'collapse to' under the skin before exporting.
adding multires to a 'skin' object used to crash max (back in version 3).. I have no idea if it still does so.
#9
Is this all there is to it? No need to use the MultiRes modifier and the Max 6 exporter that is around now supports exporting this?
In advance thanks,
Lars
07/26/2004 (11:31 pm)
Quote:
Procedure 8.6. Create the Detail Objects
Here we will be creating lower resolution versions of the Simple Shape that will replace it when it is distant from the camera.
Select SimpleShape2.
Rename the shape to SimpleShape 128.
Clone the shape by using Edit>Clone (make sure it is a copy and not a reference or an instance).
Rename this new shape SimpleShape 64 The clone should be selected. In the modifier panel, turn the 'segement' down to 8. This means that when the object is between 64 and 128 pixels high (above its detail number, but below the next highest), it will display a sphere with 8 segments.
Repeat this process a second time, this time naming it SimpleShape2, and turning the segments down to 4. This means that when the object is between 2 and 64 pixels high, it will display a sphere with only 4 segments.
Unlink SimpleShape64 and SimpleShape2 from Start01.
Select Base01, and press the "register details" button on the DTS exporter panel. It will automatically create your detail markers.
You can now export this as a DTS, overwriting the old SimpleShape.DTS
Examine the effect of you levels of detail in the Show Tool.
Is this all there is to it? No need to use the MultiRes modifier and the Max 6 exporter that is around now supports exporting this?
In advance thanks,
Lars
#10
07/26/2004 (11:38 pm)
Oh and will using the Optimize modifier work to create less poly versions?
#11
07/27/2004 (6:19 am)
Yes, there is no requirement to use the MR exporter. The LOD system can use hand made detail levels (the multires modifier just makes it easier to make them) for hand made detail levels, you can use MultiRes, Optimize, Build them by hand.. whatever.. as long as it is set up correctly, it will work. 
Torque Owner Stefan Lundmark
2. IMO no.
3. The tree pack uses multires. I usually apply multires if the shape is above 200 polies.
4. Have you checked so no AA and stuff like that is enabled?
I think you're judging without the facts, actually. I'm using the same two cards you mentioned and they work just fine, with the Geforce FX being just a bit faster.
Your computer does not suck, but there seems to be something wrong with your setup, or it's a bug that's random - because I've yet to see it with the hardware we have, which is pretty broad.