Notable RPG Elements
by Jay Barnson · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 07/09/2004 (12:48 pm) · 28 replies
Okay - for fans of single-player CRPGs... I'm wanting to hear your input on the 'best' (and, shoot, how about the 'worst', too) RPG design elements you've found in console & PC RPGs. Maybe these were just moments --- things that just seemed to WORK and make the experience magical for you. Or maybe it was something that really stank and brought down an otherwise decent game.
The intent here is to bring together a few concrete examples from which to derive a "do's and don'ts" list.
I'll kick off a couple ideas my next post.
The intent here is to bring together a few concrete examples from which to derive a "do's and don'ts" list.
I'll kick off a couple ideas my next post.
About the author
Jay has been a mainstream and indie game developer for a... uh, long time. His professional start came in 1994 developing titles for the then-unknown and upcoming Sony Playstation. He runs Rampant Games and blogs at Tales of the Rampant Coyote.
#22
I don't really like the gem upgrading of random weapons (Diablo 2, Dark Alliance 2). I get angst over wasting gems on weapons I will discard for better ones later in the game, and end up not doing any customizations until the game is almost over. Champions of Norrath did a better version of this, where you had what I would call an ancestral weapon that you always kept through-out the game. You would find crystals that could upgrade this weapon. The thing was, you never had to worry that you would discard it for a better one, because fully upgraded it would be at least one of the best ones in the game.
We're mostly talking about H'n'S and Japanese RPGs here, but there's also the whole epic turn-based RPG genre (Baldur's Gate and the like). I enjoy both H'n'S and the TB ones equally much, but I know most rpg-fans are very attached to one or the other.
07/11/2004 (10:58 am)
A different example of the character progression occured to me last night. I have a hard time finishing RPGs, because they often have a spot where the character progression levels out, and I lose interest. For example, I'm playing Dark Alliance 2 right now, and I've maxed out all the feats I want to use with my barbarian. Now what? I realize that I will get a few more feats to put points into in Act 3, but that's some ways into the future. I'm definately losing interest in picking up the controller at this point.I don't really like the gem upgrading of random weapons (Diablo 2, Dark Alliance 2). I get angst over wasting gems on weapons I will discard for better ones later in the game, and end up not doing any customizations until the game is almost over. Champions of Norrath did a better version of this, where you had what I would call an ancestral weapon that you always kept through-out the game. You would find crystals that could upgrade this weapon. The thing was, you never had to worry that you would discard it for a better one, because fully upgraded it would be at least one of the best ones in the game.
We're mostly talking about H'n'S and Japanese RPGs here, but there's also the whole epic turn-based RPG genre (Baldur's Gate and the like). I enjoy both H'n'S and the TB ones equally much, but I know most rpg-fans are very attached to one or the other.
#23
@Thomas - Good point about gem upgrades. While I liked the Horadric Cube's ability to "process" your lower grade gems into higher ones, in the early stages of Diablo II, there was definitely a reluctance to socket gems into a weapon that had killer base stats for fear of not finding a better weapon later. Of course, the problem with delaying gem upgrades (for those with a packrat philosophy) meant that you were either carrying around a lot of seemingly "useless" gems waiting to find the last one of a certain variety so you could process them, OR you sold off a lot of your gem inventory that you couldn't get back when you really needed them. I think it would be a reasonable game mechanic to allow you to either recover only the gems (thus destroying the weapon), keep the weapon but remove the gems (thus destroying them), or allowing a particularly skilled NPC or PC to separate the two without ill effect to either.
07/11/2004 (1:52 pm)
@Peter - You had my name right the first time. :)@Thomas - Good point about gem upgrades. While I liked the Horadric Cube's ability to "process" your lower grade gems into higher ones, in the early stages of Diablo II, there was definitely a reluctance to socket gems into a weapon that had killer base stats for fear of not finding a better weapon later. Of course, the problem with delaying gem upgrades (for those with a packrat philosophy) meant that you were either carrying around a lot of seemingly "useless" gems waiting to find the last one of a certain variety so you could process them, OR you sold off a lot of your gem inventory that you couldn't get back when you really needed them. I think it would be a reasonable game mechanic to allow you to either recover only the gems (thus destroying the weapon), keep the weapon but remove the gems (thus destroying them), or allowing a particularly skilled NPC or PC to separate the two without ill effect to either.
#24
Things I hate in single-player rpgs:
- when I have to fight the same type of monster too many times with the sae simple strategy
- when the fighting required to travel from one place to another takes so long I forget what's going on in the story
- when the game economy is scaled wrong so that you have to go out and do extra fighting to earn enough exp or $ to buy the next batch of equipment or survive the next boss/area
- when I can't be strategic about equipping my character/party because there's no in-game info n what the different pieces of equipment (especially accessories) do
- when you can persue a romance in the game but only with a female character
- when the game tries to force you into a childish black-and-white morality
- when the worldbuilding makes no sense
- when the characters are cardboard or cliche stereotypes especially if they're motivated by revenge
- tragic/horrific events that cannot be repaired through the player's efforts
- top-down or first person pov
Things I really like in single-player rpgs
- new game + (when you beat the game you can re-start with advantages, some story changes, and some new game areas unlocked
- multiple endings, especially where you can earn a happier ending on the secong play-through
- developing weapons instead of getting new ones all the time, especially if the pc is the weapon (think _Super Metroid_ and _EVO_)
- ability to customize the avatar (but pcs with their own distinct identities and stories are also cool
- dialogue puzzles
- creative physical puzzles and minigames
- humor, romance, happy stuff
- the game is not so hard that I die more than once an hour
- real-time fighting with button combos and some dexterity required.
- 3rd person pov where the pc has good detailed anime-style graphics and is about 1/3 the height of the screen.
- pretty monsters, bosses, and special effects such as attack and spell animations.
- ability to turn off game music but leave on sound effects, so I can listen to a cd while I play
- a few deeply developed and emotionally invested characters (including villains!) rather than a cast of thousands.
- fascinating logical mysterious worldbuilding uncovered a bit at a time throughout the course of the game
07/11/2004 (6:33 pm)
Other than adventure games, single-player crpgs are my favorite genre of game, and I hope I end up making one someday. My favorites in this genre are _Vagrant Story_ and _FF7_. _Suikoden 2_ has been highly recommended to me, but I'm still trying to find a copy for less than $100 so I haven't been able to judge it for myself yet.Things I hate in single-player rpgs:
- when I have to fight the same type of monster too many times with the sae simple strategy
- when the fighting required to travel from one place to another takes so long I forget what's going on in the story
- when the game economy is scaled wrong so that you have to go out and do extra fighting to earn enough exp or $ to buy the next batch of equipment or survive the next boss/area
- when I can't be strategic about equipping my character/party because there's no in-game info n what the different pieces of equipment (especially accessories) do
- when you can persue a romance in the game but only with a female character
- when the game tries to force you into a childish black-and-white morality
- when the worldbuilding makes no sense
- when the characters are cardboard or cliche stereotypes especially if they're motivated by revenge
- tragic/horrific events that cannot be repaired through the player's efforts
- top-down or first person pov
Things I really like in single-player rpgs
- new game + (when you beat the game you can re-start with advantages, some story changes, and some new game areas unlocked
- multiple endings, especially where you can earn a happier ending on the secong play-through
- developing weapons instead of getting new ones all the time, especially if the pc is the weapon (think _Super Metroid_ and _EVO_)
- ability to customize the avatar (but pcs with their own distinct identities and stories are also cool
- dialogue puzzles
- creative physical puzzles and minigames
- humor, romance, happy stuff
- the game is not so hard that I die more than once an hour
- real-time fighting with button combos and some dexterity required.
- 3rd person pov where the pc has good detailed anime-style graphics and is about 1/3 the height of the screen.
- pretty monsters, bosses, and special effects such as attack and spell animations.
- ability to turn off game music but leave on sound effects, so I can listen to a cd while I play
- a few deeply developed and emotionally invested characters (including villains!) rather than a cast of thousands.
- fascinating logical mysterious worldbuilding uncovered a bit at a time throughout the course of the game
#25
07/11/2004 (9:01 pm)
Quote:CastleVania: Symphony of the Night for the playstation! Has all of these, except for dialogue puzzles and minigames (at least I dont remember there was).
Things I really like in single-player rpgs
- new game + (when you beat the game you can re-start with advantages, some story changes, and some new game areas unlocked
- multiple endings, especially where you can earn a happier ending on the secong play-through
- developing weapons instead of getting new ones all the time, especially if the pc is the weapon (think _Super Metroid_ and _EVO_)
- ability to customize the avatar (but pcs with their own distinct identities and stories are also cool
- dialogue puzzles
- creative physical puzzles and minigames
- humor, romance, happy stuff
- the game is not so hard that I die more than once an hour
- real-time fighting with button combos and some dexterity required.
- 3rd person pov where the pc has good detailed anime-style graphics and is about 1/3 the height of the screen.
- pretty monsters, bosses, and special effects such as attack and spell animations.
- ability to turn off game music but leave on sound effects, so I can listen to a cd while I play
- a few deeply developed and emotionally invested characters (including villains!) rather than a cast of thousands.
- fascinating logical mysterious worldbuilding uncovered a bit at a time throughout the course of the game
#26
http://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html
So I guess this is a list of things to avoid. Unless you really don't want to...
07/13/2004 (12:44 pm)
I just found out about this:http://project-apollo.net/text/rpg.html
So I guess this is a list of things to avoid. Unless you really don't want to...
#27
07/14/2004 (11:31 am)
You know what's funny about that list (aside from being totally true)? It's like a blueprint for a "spoof" game, practically begging for somebody to step up and do for RPGs what Mel Brooks did for Westerns with Blazing Saddles. Imagine Suikoden as done by the Zucker Brothers. Oh my! The cliches turned around, the sacred cows slaughtered on the altar of satire, the hilarity that would ensue...
#28
07/14/2004 (6:14 pm)
An RPG parody! Excellent idea. 
Torque Owner Peter Dwyer