Will TSE Replace TGE?

#1 TSE will not replace TGE. We are continuing to work on TGE.

-Jeff Tunnell GG

#2 Hey,
Thank you for a clear answer. Happy to here that..=)

-qbvbsite

#3 (just re-read this before posting and it seems slightly agressive, but it's not meant to be. Just asking some straight questions, so please don't take it the wrong way)

Hi GG employees ,

Does this mean that the features that are part of TSE will eventually be part of TGE? Or will TGE flounder in some backwater of ongoing development to the point that the only way to use it as a real game engine is to buy both products?

I ask this question as it seems somewhat strange to insist that TGE will *NEVER* replace TGE, yet claim that TGE will continue to develop. The only apparent direction to develop TGE, is in the direction of TSE functionality. So there seems to be some conflict there. If you don't want to combine the products then you must sell two products, so one must be kept "inferior" to the other in some respect. If you develop TGE then modern gaming will soon *require* it to have TSE style facilities as standard. So why would anyone buy TSE?

Appreciate any comments on this. I own a TGE license and am considering a TSE license, but the development strategies seem a bit woolly. It would be nice to know how you see them resolving in the end, if TSE will not replace TGE.

Thanks,

Dave.

#4 It's pretty simply actually when you keep in mind that TGE and TSE have two fundamentally different target markets:

TSE is for current to future level graphics cards and machines, and is targetted for those games that require these levels of graphics and functionality.

TGE is for current and past level graphics cards and machines, and is targetted for those games that require backwards compatibility, low(er) executable requirements, and a wider range of target platform compatibility.

#5 Ah so, does that mean that TSE will be a stand-alone game engine in its own right with all of the TGE functionality included?

Thanks,

Dave.

#6 Yes Dave, something like that.

TSE is built ontop of the TGE codebase, so any changes and new features made in TGE will most likely work with TSE.. since they use the same internals, just different graphics handling.

#7 TSE always has been "stand-alone". The only dependency is owning the license, and that is because we are curently only offering it to indies that already own TGE, due to it's EA nature.

They are two separate engines, with common roots (the core Torque technology).

#8 Ok the question is clear now. But I have other questions.
Could you make the relation between TGE/TSE and TNL more detail?
I think inside TGE/TSE have theirs own network library.
You can integrate TNL to them easily to enhance network features, don't you?

#9 @Vu

TGE is the core technology upon which all the others are based, it is derived from v12 the engine which powered the AAA titles Tribes and Tribes2

TSE is for all intents and purposes an "eye candy" upgrade to TGE.

TNL is the networking layer of TGE stripped and devoid of the original game engine and optimized for single server, multi client communications. While it may be used as a game engine back end, it's biggest strength is that it is a tabula rosa, a blank slate. It is suitable for nearly any application where keeping a maximum of users connected to a single server with a minimum of latency is required.

OpenTNL is a version of TNL that released under the GPL, if you are creating a GPLd application this may be suitable for your purposes.

Let me make this clear, there is NO reason to try and merge TNL and TGE code bases, TNL is for all intents and purposes TGE without the pretty 3D environment. The networking capabilities are essentially the same.

#10 Thank you. It is very clear now.

#11 Thank you very much Stefan and Stephen. All clear now. The requirement for TGE license was what was throwing me. I assumed there must be a dependency and that therefore TSE was an add-on to TGE. Which was what made me wonder about where TGE could go.

I don't need the eye-candy at the moment, but the limitless non-repeating terrain is definitely something I want for my game. I didn't want to spend the cash just for that, but now I know TSE is a full game engine and not just a shader tool, it's worth the money. So looks like an upgrade to TSE is in order.

Thanks again everyone,

Dave.

#12 From TGE 1.4 product page..

Quote:...TGE 1.4 is the last free upgrade in the Torque Game Engine line. If you're looking for an upgrade beyone TGE, you should check out the Torque Shader Engine....

#13 Kevin... like it says

The last "Free" upgrade.

IIRC, one of the GG guys said it just means that future TGE updates may have to be paid for.

#14 TSE essentially is a TGE update that you had to pay for. ;)

#15 Mark,

TSE actually is a complete rewrite of an engine. It's not just an "update" to TGE. With the water, shader abilities, Atlas terrain and completely new rendering, TSE is not just TGE with bling. It is THE BLING.

#16 It's a big update, but it's still an update. Many companies refactor and rewrite lots of code between point versions.

#17 I tend to agree with Mark. If you upgrade from Oracle 1 to oracle 10 it's still Oracle despite all the added features and massive refactoring. I have a TSE license now so have no axe to grind, but to my mind it's just a TGE upgrade with new features, not a new product.

#18 By following that logic, Windows XP is really just an updated version of PC-DOS 1.0

#19 TGE and TSE are not simulor at all. If you would care to look at the very way TSE has been re written you would find this out. TSE in my opinion is going to really rock. the new shaders, Atlas terrain engine, water and its just an update? yeah right.

#20 Ehm, the fact that it rocks (we all know it does) doesn't mean it's not an update James. You seem to exagurate.

Update != Bad Quality