@#$@# Eidos!

#21 Yeah Stefan, you just read the reviews, doesn't take long at all.

#22

Quote:Yeah Stefan, you just read the reviews, doesn't take long at all

Exactly. Play the demo, read the reviews, check their website. Small clues tell all. If they have patches ready at release, it's a bad sign, at the very least it shows they are trying to finish DURING delivery or they are being forced by higher powers to release ahead of schedule. Their forums can be a huge indicator. Posts about "Wont load", "Driver problems", "Locked up my system", "cant patch", etc... can tell you plenty.


But hey! If that's to much trouble for you when you can just drop 50 bucks at your local store and see for yourself, then go for it. All I'm saying is, don't gripe to us when the game sucks. LOL.

#23 Of course, the people on this site are probably amongst the most educated about games... The people we need to worry about are the silent majority who's out there buying shitty games.

#24 The people that bitch and moan about getting laid off are the ones that in my experience are probably are not going to be able to find more work because they are the commondity workers and don't want to get any better to make themselves more marketable.

#25 Somebody get a pin

#26 Frankly, I'd be much more upset about the deaths of Impressions and Papyrus last month. Two whole development companies dissolved by their parent company and no one heard so much as a ripple. Mainly because the parent company had all the websites rerouted to their main site so no one could say much even if they wanted to.

At least the Eidos guys got some publicity to their departure so they know the fans'll miss 'em and appreciated their work. These guys worked for years and got buried quietly in the back yard in the middle of the night without a sound and no one to mourn.

waxing a bit poetic there but you get my drift.

#27 This thread is kinda funny...
Like we didnt know this about capitolism?
this is not a democracy guys.. get a grip.

I agree it is sad. but see this is what big business is all about.
and those of us that fall into thier grasp, are that..
within thier grasp.

I remember when I was a kid. both my parents worked construction.
when the job was over so was the contract.
usually meant a new city was coming with new school's.
time to move on.

agreed they would not hire my parent's to stand around wait for another job.

every now and then they got on with a good company.
one that was able to keep the work coming.


*shrug*

#28 Well therin lies the problem...game reviews. See, reviews, for the most part, are totally pointless. The rating a game gets is really not so much based on how good of a game it is. It depends on how badly the review publisher is in the pocket of the game publisher. It depends on the competence of the reviewer. It depends on what the reviewer ate for breakfast, what color socks he is wearing, and why his girlfriend stopped putting out.

For example. Final Fantasy X-2 got pretty darn good reviews. For all intents and purposes, it was not a Final Fantasy game. It was a complete piece of crap. The storyline was horrible, the characters were downright offensively stupid and weak, the gameplay *may* have been good but it's really hard to tell. You would play for 5 minutes, then have 10 minutes of cutscenes. It wasn't a game, it was a movie that has a chance to end before the end (if you die), with a small element of the choose-your-own adventure books. This was not a good game. Almost none of the people who played, and loved, Final Fantasy on the NES and SNES thought this game was worth the disk it was pressed on, but it got good reviews. Why? Well the graphics were great, and the reviewer probably picked it up, played it for a few hours, said, "Yeah good graphics, pop-culture, it'll sell...good game, 85%."

Amazingly enough, Civ 3, Thief 3, and Final Fantasy X-2 all averaged the same reviews, check out gametab.com sometime and look at these "reviews" you suggest.

Yes. People do keep buying games. It's really kind of sad. It's like people keep watching movies. I suggest you try to organize a mass protest. Let me know when it works, I'll join up.

The game industry changes constantly, even moreso than normal industries. Yes, this kind of stuff sucks, pure and simple. People get treated like trash by big companies because they can, and because the bottom line is what matters, not great games. Things will change again. As more and more people have the experiences like the guys at Ion storm just had, the industry will change. Hell, Westwood got shut down last year. They made the RTS genre (Dune was the first, yeah?). This kind of shit happens all the time, but things will change.

#29 Ooooh, I wont even comment on the "Big Business and Capitalism is bad" thing.

#30 @Bring & Gonzo

One word, irony.
A review doesn't say sh*t, that was my point. All games do not come with a demo and not all games have forums either.

There are NUMEROUS games that are VERY good that had patches.
I even know games that had patches before they were fully released.

Want me to name them? Fine!
Fragile Allegiance, Diablo II, most MMORPG's I've played, Messiah, Constructor, LBA, Space Rangers, Heroes of Might and Magic 2 - the list goes on.

There are also games that are buggy but with no patches.

I think you're just putting it too general, Gonzo.

#31 @Jarrod:

You know what? You are the biggest jerk I have ever had the displeasure of being around, if even in a virtual way. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I guess you had a little industry experience at one time, but that does not make you a god. I have been biting my tongue on your posts for a long time, but this time I simply cannot remein silent.

Saying that all people fired by big, desperate corporations were probably commodity employees anyway is an absolute insult to the great people that were my friends at Dynamix. I won't allow this blanket, mindless statement to go unchallenged.

I am not going to take this point by point, or even bother to respond to the flaming post that I know will come after this. Your attitude and ubiquity on these boards is no longer welcome. You have just burned a bridge that will not be rebuilt. I am not even going to give you the honor of deleting your access.

-Jeff Tunnell GG

Edit: spelling.

#32 *Applause!!!*

#33 Wow, nice post Jeff. Very touching.

#34 Hehehe.. nice to see Jeff so passionate :)

But I dont find Jarrod that annoying personally, maybe I'm just too thick skinned.

But Jarrod, your point about them not finding jobs isnt really relevant. Warren Spector will easily find a job. But the point is, what MADE that whole mess in the first place?

Corporate politics, unethical practices (i.e. hiring people without due disclosure).

The guys where right, basically, what i said before was that NO-ONE actually HIRES and discloses "you will be sacked after you ship", because then they would either get people passing, or asking for 2x salaries to cover the slack.

So they hire for a specific game, which is normal. But they dont say anything more.

Of course, you have to think that if youre going to work for Eidos, and Ion Storm, that something is up, because they closed the Dallas store a while ago, but what if they assure you that closing Dallas was to make sure Austin kept going?

Basically, large corporate development see's developers as a commodity, pure and simple, which is why doing that kind of development is a risky proposition.

But look at guys like Jeff, who actually CARE about *people* rather than some account balance? :)

Mustve been pretty funky to work at Dynamix in thier early days!

#35 This touches on the primary reason I got out of entertainment software industry, am back in college, and am interested in Indie game development.

For my first six to seven months in the game industry I was working 80+ hours a week and only had three days off, Thanksgiving, Christmas Day, and New Years Day (which I really had to beg for). Everyone else working on the product worked just as hard. When the product was released it was a great success and a top PC/Mac seller for years to come, selling millions of units.

However, within a week after the release I watched as managers sadly laid off over 30 loyal employees, people who had shunned their families and friends for this company for over six months straight, who even on occasion could be seen sleeping on cubicle floors during the last months of development. There was no warning, we just walked in and were laid off. A week later, with no warning, the managers who had laid us all off and processed the paperwork were laid of as well. These were people who had been on the project for over three years.

Ironically, I was called a month later and was re-hired, staying on for four more years before I had had enough. During that time I saw the cycle of hiring then laying off. It was sad to see people treated this way, and the whole time I could only conclude that it was due to poor management.

I repeatedly saw projects begin to fall behind schedule. People would be hired to help meet deadlines, many times being lured from their other jobs with bonuses and higher pay. The project would then go over budget and when the product shipped the team would be bloated. That's when the axe would come down.

#36 Now everybody here knows I'm not a Jarrod for president backer or anything, and for the most part, he rubs me the wrong way also. And while I can fully understand Jeff's disgust in Jarrod's statement, I gotta say that this time it's not all his fault. His ego just took his mouth on a little joyride while his brain and modesty were trying to get some sleep. Can't blame a guy for saying something that.......blatently stupid.


In all fairness Jeff, he has done a fair share of helping folks and I could find you couple of people more worthy of being banned if you like.

:-)

#37 Hooray for you, Jeff! You just said what I'm sure most people on this forum think.

Back to the thread topic...
Sad as these retrenchments are, they are no surprise. Permanent employees seem to be the corporate equivalent of Infantry troops, mere cannon fodder in the battle for profits, the first to die in any battle and the easiest to replace.

Cynical, I know, but below follows my Cynics Guide To Surviving Permanent Corporate Employment:

- Get critical knowledge ASAP and then share thy critical expertise with no-one, ever. Take no protege's, the buggers want thine job.
- Expect to get screwed by corporate politics/power games
- Always be on the lookout for another job
- Shed no tears about leaving thy company in the lurch
- Be loyal only to thine bank balance
- See the possibility of the end before it happens, and pre-empt. May as well maximise their discomfort if they're getting rid of thou anyway.
- Don't play the blame game, but get every instruction in writing/email and keep records to refute those who do.
- Don't protect thine boss. Whatever they say, if it's thou or him, guess who'll be out job hunting.
- Fight thou retrenchment/dismissal every time. The official retrenchment guidelines are usually hogwash and difficult to substantiate on a case by case basis. (It mostly boils down to who likes thou and who doesn't - allies and enemies). Have fun making them massage their stats to show why they chose thou and by fighting, get to publicise their unfair practices. The threat of bad publicity may even get thou a better deal.
- Remember corporate slights and badmouth/boycott when/where thou can. It may not hurt the company but will at least give thou some satisfaction.
- Do thine job but don't bend over backwards for anyone. Corporations have no long-term memory, and the next reshuffle will get thou a SOB with his own agenda anyway.
- Trust no-one at work with who thou really are and make only superficial work friends. Thou personal life is likely to bite thou in thine corporate butt.
- See every re-organisation as a sign of what it is: the bastards up there got it wrong and now some of us are gonna pay for their incompetence.
- Don't break even minor laws for thine company. Thou arse will be the one in sitting in jail, not theirs. (see Enron and AA for examples).
- Believe no promises of future reward/benefit for current endeavour. If it doesn't happen immediately, it won't.
- Don't hoard thine leave. A swish of a policy pen can policy these virtual savings to dust.
- Job hop every two years. Thou will probably get a better increase upon new employment than the trickle feed increases thine loyalty yields.
- Love thy CV and get as much training as thou canst get. Lord knows, thou will need it.

I'm sure you guys can add some more to this :)

#38 Oh geez, COME ON Gonzo, you're beating a dead horse! Start looking in the mirror.

@Matthew Coerteze

Lol, the word "thine" is populating that list on many occasions :D

#39 @Stefan: Yes, I got a bit carried away :)

#40 Not all of the big boys are bad. EA treats their employees like gold. They do work them hard but they are compensated for it. I'm from Ottawa and a couple friend of mine got hired by EA Vancouver straight out of school and they are flying them back for their convication (graduation cerimony) and there are a lot other benefits as well. I think this just goes to show, you only get to be the biggest if you can retain your most valuable asset, employees. You gotta give EA one thing, they know the production cycle of a game inside out and have really good processes to get games produced. You can't produce that many games a year without it.