Just how changeable is the engine
by Brian Lyon · in General Discussion · 05/26/2004 (5:20 pm) · 13 replies
Im considering buying tge i was just wondering how changable is the engine could i mod it to support players building buildings or chopping down trees , i read another post mentioning that lighting would be an issue what if i used the same function as spawning the building as a vehical that couldnt move once it was placed. also does the tge inde license come with the network code?
#2
05/26/2004 (5:28 pm)
The engine is infinetly changeable. The whole engine includes the network code. I cant answer your third question.
#3
05/26/2004 (5:36 pm)
How hard is it to find artist who will work on the game for free or for a percentage of the money the game takes in?
#4
05/26/2004 (8:23 pm)
Your best bet would be to swipe them froma game/s modding scene, theres some real talent brewing in those areas. 
#5
It's not about revenues, most of the indie games will not reach this destination and you cannot possibly plan this ahead, people will get disappointed that way.
Take it easy, don't make promises you cannot hold.
05/27/2004 (3:17 am)
How hard? I wouldn't work on a project which wasn't interesting.It's not about revenues, most of the indie games will not reach this destination and you cannot possibly plan this ahead, people will get disappointed that way.
Take it easy, don't make promises you cannot hold.
#6
The way to grab my attention would be through the game itself, If i feel its interesting and worth putting MY time into I would help out.
if its another clone/boring game then i wouldnt bother.
Just my personal oppinion not sure if other artists feel the same :)
05/27/2004 (3:23 am)
As an artist i have to say I would go easy on promising revenue at the end, That isnt really any insentive at all.The way to grab my attention would be through the game itself, If i feel its interesting and worth putting MY time into I would help out.
if its another clone/boring game then i wouldnt bother.
Just my personal oppinion not sure if other artists feel the same :)
#7
Since discovering the indie community last fall, the thing that surprised me was how many games fail to even get COMPLETED. The team loses interest, fights with itself, and never gets past pretty screenshots and a tech demo. Things go up on the Development Snapshot of the Day and are never heard from again. People find themselves teaming up with people who dissapear off the face of the earth a few weeks later.
Beyond that, the number of indie games that make any significant revenue even if they do get completed is relatively small. So as an indie developer, making gobs of cash cannot be your primary concern. It's unlikely that you'll be making half of minimum wage for the effort you put in. Some folks are making it work as their livelihood, but it's still mainly a hobby. So promising back-end profits is a poor motivator.
I know if I were looking to get in on a project, my big motivators would be:
1) The track record of the individuals involved. Have they ever shipped a product? Do they know how to finish a project?
2) My ability to take some level of ownership of the project. This doesn't mean taking possession of the whole kit & kaboodle and being the boss. But it means being able to provide creative input into the project, guide it's direction to some degree, and take ownership / leadership if it ends up abandoned by the rest of the team.
3) How much the project excites me. As suggested above, I can't get very excited about a game that is just going to imitate another best-selling game. You just aren't going to build something "Like Half-Life, only better!" with a team of four inexperienced developers in six to twelve months.
05/27/2004 (12:26 pm)
Not an artist here, but I'll echo what has been said with my own spin, based on what I've heard from others and my own feelings.Since discovering the indie community last fall, the thing that surprised me was how many games fail to even get COMPLETED. The team loses interest, fights with itself, and never gets past pretty screenshots and a tech demo. Things go up on the Development Snapshot of the Day and are never heard from again. People find themselves teaming up with people who dissapear off the face of the earth a few weeks later.
Beyond that, the number of indie games that make any significant revenue even if they do get completed is relatively small. So as an indie developer, making gobs of cash cannot be your primary concern. It's unlikely that you'll be making half of minimum wage for the effort you put in. Some folks are making it work as their livelihood, but it's still mainly a hobby. So promising back-end profits is a poor motivator.
I know if I were looking to get in on a project, my big motivators would be:
1) The track record of the individuals involved. Have they ever shipped a product? Do they know how to finish a project?
2) My ability to take some level of ownership of the project. This doesn't mean taking possession of the whole kit & kaboodle and being the boss. But it means being able to provide creative input into the project, guide it's direction to some degree, and take ownership / leadership if it ends up abandoned by the rest of the team.
3) How much the project excites me. As suggested above, I can't get very excited about a game that is just going to imitate another best-selling game. You just aren't going to build something "Like Half-Life, only better!" with a team of four inexperienced developers in six to twelve months.
#8
With an indie game that I wasn't in control of I'd also want a written contract that had the terms of compensation, plus a written agreement where I keep all my work to use as I please, should the game never come to anything. That way I havent completely wasted my time, particularly when the majority of projects barely get past the concept stage.
If it was my game I'd have contracts written up the minute that it looks like a significant amount of work is actually going to get done, this protects everyone and gives the project and each member of the team some kind of responsibility and legitimacy.
Of course I'd be assuming that the other team members appeared to be somewhat qualified and looked like they could be relied upon to complete their particular tasks.
05/27/2004 (1:06 pm)
I wouldn't work on a project unless I either liked the project, or was getting paid. After that the next most important thing is that the engine have a good art pipeline and let me use max to build environments and levels. With an indie game that I wasn't in control of I'd also want a written contract that had the terms of compensation, plus a written agreement where I keep all my work to use as I please, should the game never come to anything. That way I havent completely wasted my time, particularly when the majority of projects barely get past the concept stage.
If it was my game I'd have contracts written up the minute that it looks like a significant amount of work is actually going to get done, this protects everyone and gives the project and each member of the team some kind of responsibility and legitimacy.
Of course I'd be assuming that the other team members appeared to be somewhat qualified and looked like they could be relied upon to complete their particular tasks.
#9
Well last I heard, the GG team itself was just scraping by...
"Wasting time" as you call it is perhaps actually what the GG community is calling for...
New game ideas can come from this community... great new PC games without limits... if you're looking for "get rich quick" perhaps you should take heed and instead think about innovating.
For the record, the engine is wide open, with a "real-time" scripting language included, plus full access to the source once you buy it. The mapping tool is built-into the engine, interior design is done with publically-available tools, and models can be built with the leading industry apps.
05/27/2004 (3:19 pm)
Quote:That way I havent completely wasted my time
Well last I heard, the GG team itself was just scraping by...
"Wasting time" as you call it is perhaps actually what the GG community is calling for...
New game ideas can come from this community... great new PC games without limits... if you're looking for "get rich quick" perhaps you should take heed and instead think about innovating.
For the record, the engine is wide open, with a "real-time" scripting language included, plus full access to the source once you buy it. The mapping tool is built-into the engine, interior design is done with publically-available tools, and models can be built with the leading industry apps.
#10
If you've finished school, spendt 8 years in the industr and have recently started trying to get an indie game dev business off the ground. And have to do contract work to pay the bills, then money and or value in the work your prodicing is a very real issue.
Not if your under 25 living with your parents, have no wife, rent, bills etc. So sorry if that sounded at all insulting, that wasn't my intention. But the reality is that probably 90% of the indie projects that get started, and I'm not talking about GG specificaly, but anywhere. They never make it past the concept stage, or at best early tech demo.
I've seen many game ideas, but not many actual games. At the end of the day ideas are cheap, producing a game from these ideas is expensive whichever way you look at it.
Thats why a publisher normaly won't give you an NDA for your ideas, if someone hasn't thought of it allready, someone will sooner or later.
05/28/2004 (9:47 am)
Alex, I have a fair amount of experience as both a commercial lead artist and also a Indie artist with 1 released indie game, and 2 more that should be completed by the end of this year. So I know whats involved in making games, and and know exactly what I mean when I talk about wasting time.If you've finished school, spendt 8 years in the industr and have recently started trying to get an indie game dev business off the ground. And have to do contract work to pay the bills, then money and or value in the work your prodicing is a very real issue.
Not if your under 25 living with your parents, have no wife, rent, bills etc. So sorry if that sounded at all insulting, that wasn't my intention. But the reality is that probably 90% of the indie projects that get started, and I'm not talking about GG specificaly, but anywhere. They never make it past the concept stage, or at best early tech demo.
I've seen many game ideas, but not many actual games. At the end of the day ideas are cheap, producing a game from these ideas is expensive whichever way you look at it.
Thats why a publisher normaly won't give you an NDA for your ideas, if someone hasn't thought of it allready, someone will sooner or later.
#11
Getting an artist for 'free' is hard. There has to be something that is of some value to them in order to become involved. If it is the experience of shipping a game, then they will be looking to work with someone who has shipped a game in the past.. it might be the artist wants to work with people better then they are in order to improve their skills.. it might just because the idea is fun.
So, in order to attract and artist (or any team member for that matter) one has to offer something of vlaue to them. This need not be money.. it can be something else that the individual finds valuable. Failing anything of 'soft' value to the individual artist, one often has to resort to money in order to get high quality art assets.
Individuals looking to start teams should consider this carefully as they look to form their teams. What of value do you have to offer to someone else? An idea? A promise of future riches?
I don't think the GaragGames commiunity is asking for anyone to waste time on anything.. I think what the community wants is that everyone be spending time on something that is of value so that everyone wins.
One thing I do see is a lot of very young people who have never made nor shipped a game thinking that they will be able to make a better game than what exists on the store shelves without knowing the amount of work involved in undertaking such a task.
I personally don't hav the luxury of giving the benefit of the doubt to anyone, as most of those wanting to make games have unrealistic goals, unrealistic expectations, and an incomplete skillset.
I applaud people for making the effort to try to make a game, but it would be better if more people went into it with their eyes a little more open.
05/28/2004 (10:29 am)
Wasting ones time is a big deal to some of us. Time is the only non-renewable resource any individual has. Getting an artist for 'free' is hard. There has to be something that is of some value to them in order to become involved. If it is the experience of shipping a game, then they will be looking to work with someone who has shipped a game in the past.. it might be the artist wants to work with people better then they are in order to improve their skills.. it might just because the idea is fun.
So, in order to attract and artist (or any team member for that matter) one has to offer something of vlaue to them. This need not be money.. it can be something else that the individual finds valuable. Failing anything of 'soft' value to the individual artist, one often has to resort to money in order to get high quality art assets.
Individuals looking to start teams should consider this carefully as they look to form their teams. What of value do you have to offer to someone else? An idea? A promise of future riches?
I don't think the GaragGames commiunity is asking for anyone to waste time on anything.. I think what the community wants is that everyone be spending time on something that is of value so that everyone wins.
One thing I do see is a lot of very young people who have never made nor shipped a game thinking that they will be able to make a better game than what exists on the store shelves without knowing the amount of work involved in undertaking such a task.
I personally don't hav the luxury of giving the benefit of the doubt to anyone, as most of those wanting to make games have unrealistic goals, unrealistic expectations, and an incomplete skillset.
I applaud people for making the effort to try to make a game, but it would be better if more people went into it with their eyes a little more open.
#12
I have a persistent world game that's actually getting done, but people pass that by to work on FPS or puzzle games that will never be completed. It would be amusing if that fact didn't make it harder for me to find more team members.
05/28/2004 (10:33 am)
This is aimed at noone in particular, but I find it funny how people usually talk about wanting to get into the "sure thing" project, but then latch onto teams that aren't going anywhere with their project, or just drop off the map.I have a persistent world game that's actually getting done, but people pass that by to work on FPS or puzzle games that will never be completed. It would be amusing if that fact didn't make it harder for me to find more team members.
#13
-J
05/28/2004 (11:21 am)
This is nothing new... it's the same for body building, mountain climbing, marathons, etc. You don't start at the top... you work your ass off to get there. Besides, The struggle is what makes success enjoyable. It's masochism for sure.-J
Torque Owner Brian Lyon