What exactly is an RPG??
by Saurav Mohapatra · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 03/20/2004 (2:36 pm) · 52 replies
Hi all,
i am a child of the Doom Quake Half Life generation playing games that involve shooting anything that moves with a bigger badder gun every successive level... :)
recently i have been interested in other "cerebral" genres like adventure games.... i have searched and scanned the net for a definition of the RPG games . every site just seems to go on from after the definition... can any one explain to me what exactly is an RPG???
i am a child of the Doom Quake Half Life generation playing games that involve shooting anything that moves with a bigger badder gun every successive level... :)
recently i have been interested in other "cerebral" genres like adventure games.... i have searched and scanned the net for a definition of the RPG games . every site just seems to go on from after the definition... can any one explain to me what exactly is an RPG???
About the author
#2
so an rpg typically would have a setting... (a world)
a set of rules as to what you can or can not do in the world...
and a series of player characters... which can or can not be controlled by you...
and the chars shall have attributes...???
03/20/2004 (2:45 pm)
Thanks..john... just to check if i got it...so an rpg typically would have a setting... (a world)
a set of rules as to what you can or can not do in the world...
and a series of player characters... which can or can not be controlled by you...
and the chars shall have attributes...???
#3
Characters have attributes that describe that character, and how he functions. For example a Strength attrbiute would tell how strong a character is. That might be used if say he is obstructed by a door and tries to bash it in.
03/20/2004 (2:48 pm)
Pretty much correct. A player character, or PC is always controlled by a human in CRPGs not neccesarily you. Traditionally RPGs were played with a large group of friends. The term NPC is used more often in CRPGs than traditional table top RPGs, but it applied there as well. An NPC or non player character is a character used for the weorld setting that is controlled by the Game Master (or computer in a CRPG). The Game Masert, Dungeon Master, et all is a person who "runs" the game, controlling the game world, telling the story, and resolving issues.Characters have attributes that describe that character, and how he functions. For example a Strength attrbiute would tell how strong a character is. That might be used if say he is obstructed by a door and tries to bash it in.
#4
03/20/2004 (2:53 pm)
How would combat proceed in a RPG....from what you have described..it would be more like a game of tic tac toe...or chess...
#5
Combat is typically more detailed in CRPGs because there you have a computer to deal with all the drudgery. For example you might have a fighter up against an Orc. Turn 1 the fighter swings his sword, dice are rolled. The result of the dice roll, combined with various skills and attributes (for example how skilled is the fighter with the sword, how hard is the orc to hit, etc, etc) determines if the fighter hits or misses. The sword would have a damage rating that would then be applied if he hit.
03/20/2004 (2:57 pm)
Combat in an RPG varies a lot. It pretty much boils down to a sequence of discrete turns in which a ruleset dictates available actions and the outcome of those actions. Then again I guess that could desscribe any game.Combat is typically more detailed in CRPGs because there you have a computer to deal with all the drudgery. For example you might have a fighter up against an Orc. Turn 1 the fighter swings his sword, dice are rolled. The result of the dice roll, combined with various skills and attributes (for example how skilled is the fighter with the sword, how hard is the orc to hit, etc, etc) determines if the fighter hits or misses. The sword would have a damage rating that would then be applied if he hit.
#6
i just found some links on RPG systems on a google search.... but this discussion has been very informative...
03/20/2004 (3:00 pm)
Hmmm... thanks for the quick replies john.. :)i just found some links on RPG systems on a google search.... but this discussion has been very informative...
#7
03/20/2004 (3:07 pm)
D20 system would be a good read, or just pick up a copy of an AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide at a bookstore.
#8
But combat is only part of the game - usually you can talk to different people (NPC's), and this is typically a part of completing an 'adventure'. These days I'd say computer RPG's are split between the story line type where you have an ultimate task to complete (overthrow an evil tyrant, find someone/something, ...), and the MMORPG (Mega Multi-player Online RPG) where you just have a world you can go adventuring in, with no ultimate goal.
But really, I think the defining characteristic of an RPG game is the focus on character development. Usually you have a lot of control over your initial character (abilities, race, class), although the story line type may have a predefined starting character. Then as you go on adventures, you gain 'experience'. Typically, gain enough 'experience' and you go up a 'level', which gives you a chance to improve your character.
I'm sure if you poke around on the web, you'll be able to find some RPG games with free demos - that's probably the best way to get a feel for the game. And for sure, reading up on AD&D is a great way to learn about the inner workings of these games.
03/20/2004 (5:27 pm)
I used to be a big fan of RPG games - still play them now and then. Nowadays, you can have RPG games that play very similiar to FPS games as far as combat goes - it doesn't have to be turn based anymore.But combat is only part of the game - usually you can talk to different people (NPC's), and this is typically a part of completing an 'adventure'. These days I'd say computer RPG's are split between the story line type where you have an ultimate task to complete (overthrow an evil tyrant, find someone/something, ...), and the MMORPG (Mega Multi-player Online RPG) where you just have a world you can go adventuring in, with no ultimate goal.
But really, I think the defining characteristic of an RPG game is the focus on character development. Usually you have a lot of control over your initial character (abilities, race, class), although the story line type may have a predefined starting character. Then as you go on adventures, you gain 'experience'. Typically, gain enough 'experience' and you go up a 'level', which gives you a chance to improve your character.
I'm sure if you poke around on the web, you'll be able to find some RPG games with free demos - that's probably the best way to get a feel for the game. And for sure, reading up on AD&D is a great way to learn about the inner workings of these games.
#9
The majority of RPGs use a turn based combat resolution system, even the ones that "feel" real time.
03/20/2004 (5:37 pm)
Quote:I used to be a big fan of RPG games - still play them now and then. Nowadays, you can have RPG games that play very similiar to FPS games as far as combat goes - it doesn't have to be turn based anymore.
The majority of RPGs use a turn based combat resolution system, even the ones that "feel" real time.
Quote:But really, I think the defining characteristic of an RPG game is the focus on character development.I agree 100%.
#10
i have already downloaded some free RPG's both computer based and pen and paper....thanks for the suggestion though.... i am doing some research on the genre.... I am primarily a programmer and writer.... so when a friend suggested a novel i am working on would make a nice RPG... i decided to do some digging before i started the project....
john... the demos of Knights Of The Old Republic...show pretty much real time combat but some reviews do mention something about they being turn based... i rented out one of the final fantasy games and played it... playing diablo now..... just to see what a RPG feels like...
i pretty much like to do a lot of research before getting into anything.... anyways thanks for the inputs guys
03/20/2004 (6:16 pm)
Hi glen,i have already downloaded some free RPG's both computer based and pen and paper....thanks for the suggestion though.... i am doing some research on the genre.... I am primarily a programmer and writer.... so when a friend suggested a novel i am working on would make a nice RPG... i decided to do some digging before i started the project....
john... the demos of Knights Of The Old Republic...show pretty much real time combat but some reviews do mention something about they being turn based... i rented out one of the final fantasy games and played it... playing diablo now..... just to see what a RPG feels like...
i pretty much like to do a lot of research before getting into anything.... anyways thanks for the inputs guys
#11
03/20/2004 (6:29 pm)
I personaly don't consider Diablo ( at least not Diabloa 1) an RPG. Haven't played Diablo 2 so I can't comment on that one.
#12
In my mind RPGs are mostly story driven with a strong focus on character development. Combat relies on the skills you have developed and the equipment you have acquired for your role-playing character. In an FPS combat relies mostly on the player's abilities, rather than the in-game character's abilities. This means that a lot of the strategy in an RPG comes in the form of character development.
03/20/2004 (6:36 pm)
Yes, Star Wars Knights Of The Republic is turn-based. Imagine making a die roll for an attack against an enemy, if you hit, your character goes through an 'attack' animation and the enemy goes through a matching 'hit' animation. It looks really good in lightsaber battles.In my mind RPGs are mostly story driven with a strong focus on character development. Combat relies on the skills you have developed and the equipment you have acquired for your role-playing character. In an FPS combat relies mostly on the player's abilities, rather than the in-game character's abilities. This means that a lot of the strategy in an RPG comes in the form of character development.
#13
03/20/2004 (6:57 pm)
John what genre would diablo fall into then???
#14
Seriously, a lot of the purists won't consider any of the games available for the PC to be a role playing game, since you usually can't create or play a role to any signifigant extent.
When these guys say 'RPG' they mean Dungeons and Dragons, or Vampire, or Amber Diceless, or whatever.
PC based 'RPGs' (especially the earlier ones) often had more in common with tabletop wargames than with the pen and paper games.
So, be aware that when you ask this question you'll get two sets of answers: one from the pen and paper camp and one from the video gamers.
03/20/2004 (7:00 pm)
Whack-a-mole with stats?Seriously, a lot of the purists won't consider any of the games available for the PC to be a role playing game, since you usually can't create or play a role to any signifigant extent.
When these guys say 'RPG' they mean Dungeons and Dragons, or Vampire, or Amber Diceless, or whatever.
PC based 'RPGs' (especially the earlier ones) often had more in common with tabletop wargames than with the pen and paper games.
So, be aware that when you ask this question you'll get two sets of answers: one from the pen and paper camp and one from the video gamers.
#15
since i am doing research on the genre... any answer i ge tis welcome... :) ... i read somewhere that "Never Winter Nights" was written with "D & D" rules... or EverQuest was written over some-MUD what does that mean????
by the way that brings me to the second question...
how is a RPG different from a MUD? (Of Course..you have to explain to me what a MUD actually is too ) ;-)
thanks in advance...
mohaps
03/20/2004 (7:09 pm)
Hi mark,since i am doing research on the genre... any answer i ge tis welcome... :) ... i read somewhere that "Never Winter Nights" was written with "D & D" rules... or EverQuest was written over some-MUD what does that mean????
by the way that brings me to the second question...
how is a RPG different from a MUD? (Of Course..you have to explain to me what a MUD actually is too ) ;-)
thanks in advance...
mohaps
#16
Sadly, yes, there are almost no rpgs with real time combat, at least not true 3d and multiplayer. The only one I know of is Deus Ex, and DX is more of a shooter than a real RPG - it's an "RPGish" shooter.
There's no reason a CRPG can't have twitch-based real-time 3d combat. I do agree that CRPGs to date haven't.
Saurav, if you want a great example of a CRPG that is as close to a true RPG as there is, you should look at Neverwinter Nights. If that game had realtime combat and true 3d it would be perfect. Oh, and a real level editor.
I think what really makes a game an RPG is an emphasis on open-ended gameplay and, well...roleplaying. In other words, you interact with others in various ways, not just with violence - through dialogue for instance.
In some ways, an emphasis on stats for task resolution is just a crutch, really, in a CRPG. Take lockpicking for example. The best way to put such a skill in game would be to create an actual lock, give the player lockpicking tools, and make a sort of minigame out of lockpicking where the player has to do it.
On the other hand, part of the purpose and fun of an RPG is to play someone other than yourself, so in that regard stats can be a good thing.
Then there's the third way, where stats could be combined with minigames, e.g. if you buy lockpicking skill for your character, then you could find that lock easier to pick within the minigame.
Of course there's a line to be drawn between the two. Stats are the easiest way to do things, so for resolving a task with little gameplay value (basketweaving), stats are better.
I personally don't want some stat making me aim better (or a lack making my aim worse), that sounds really unfun. Again, there's the combination possibility, you could leave aim alone and make reload speed based on skill level, etc.
Anyways, I'll shut up now, somehow I doubt I'm making RPGs more understandable to Saurav. :)
03/20/2004 (7:16 pm)
Quote:How would combat proceed in a RPG....from what you have described..it would be more like a game of tic tac toe...or chess...
Sadly, yes, there are almost no rpgs with real time combat, at least not true 3d and multiplayer. The only one I know of is Deus Ex, and DX is more of a shooter than a real RPG - it's an "RPGish" shooter.
Quote:In my mind RPGs are mostly story driven with a strong focus on character development. Combat relies on the skills you have developed and the equipment you have acquired for your role-playing character. In an FPS combat relies mostly on the player's abilities, rather than the in-game character's abilities. This means that a lot of the strategy in an RPG comes in the form of character development.
There's no reason a CRPG can't have twitch-based real-time 3d combat. I do agree that CRPGs to date haven't.
Saurav, if you want a great example of a CRPG that is as close to a true RPG as there is, you should look at Neverwinter Nights. If that game had realtime combat and true 3d it would be perfect. Oh, and a real level editor.
I think what really makes a game an RPG is an emphasis on open-ended gameplay and, well...roleplaying. In other words, you interact with others in various ways, not just with violence - through dialogue for instance.
In some ways, an emphasis on stats for task resolution is just a crutch, really, in a CRPG. Take lockpicking for example. The best way to put such a skill in game would be to create an actual lock, give the player lockpicking tools, and make a sort of minigame out of lockpicking where the player has to do it.
On the other hand, part of the purpose and fun of an RPG is to play someone other than yourself, so in that regard stats can be a good thing.
Then there's the third way, where stats could be combined with minigames, e.g. if you buy lockpicking skill for your character, then you could find that lock easier to pick within the minigame.
Of course there's a line to be drawn between the two. Stats are the easiest way to do things, so for resolving a task with little gameplay value (basketweaving), stats are better.
I personally don't want some stat making me aim better (or a lack making my aim worse), that sounds really unfun. Again, there's the combination possibility, you could leave aim alone and make reload speed based on skill level, etc.
Anyways, I'll shut up now, somehow I doubt I'm making RPGs more understandable to Saurav. :)
#17
Never Winter Nights, Knights of the Old Republic, and Temple of Elemental evil are all implementations of the D20 ruleset (Aka D&D version 3), the latest version of Dungeons and Dragons (D&D). Earlier versions of the D&D rules were implemented in games like Pool of Radiance and Curse of the Azure Bonds, which are considered classics of the genre.
Everquest is indeed a graphical version of an old MUD.
A MUD is a sort of computer RPG. They're the precursor to MMORPGS like everquest. It was a text based interface, like the old infocom games. You'd type 'move west', 'kill goblin', and so on. You'd get back replies in text - no graphics. They're fairly lame gameplay-wise, but they were made palatable because they were social. Up to 200 or so players could play on the same server and interact in real time.
Open a telnet connection to discworld.atuin.net port 4242 for a taste of MUDing.
03/20/2004 (7:24 pm)
Quote:since i am doing research on the genre... any answer i ge tis welcome... :) ... i read somewhere that "Never Winter Nights" was written with "D & D" rules... or EverQuest was written over some-MUD what does that mean????
Never Winter Nights, Knights of the Old Republic, and Temple of Elemental evil are all implementations of the D20 ruleset (Aka D&D version 3), the latest version of Dungeons and Dragons (D&D). Earlier versions of the D&D rules were implemented in games like Pool of Radiance and Curse of the Azure Bonds, which are considered classics of the genre.
Everquest is indeed a graphical version of an old MUD.
Quote:
how is a RPG different from a MUD? (Of Course..you have to explain to me what a MUD actually is too ) ;-)
A MUD is a sort of computer RPG. They're the precursor to MMORPGS like everquest. It was a text based interface, like the old infocom games. You'd type 'move west', 'kill goblin', and so on. You'd get back replies in text - no graphics. They're fairly lame gameplay-wise, but they were made palatable because they were social. Up to 200 or so players could play on the same server and interact in real time.
Open a telnet connection to discworld.atuin.net port 4242 for a taste of MUDing.
#18
03/20/2004 (7:24 pm)
An RPG is any game in which the player assumes the role of a character. Typically rewards/curses are given that benefit/hurt the character and their performance within the game.
#19
Usually you would see this in the game and increase the various skills and attributes. We also allowed a printable form and exchange files that seem to be popular.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jock: Eric Petersen aka Rosary
Squad: The Bolos
Race: HUMAN [MALE]
Age: 24 years 8 months
Size: 199 cm
Weight: 104 kg
Rank: ROOKIE [1]
Salary: 3400 $ / month
Titan: Mark I [34.4 t]
Battles: 00 [Wins/Losses: 00/00]
Hit ratio: N/A
Kills: 0
XP: 0 / 3400
DP: Pilot: 003 / Combat: 004 / Other: 000
Leader: Recruit rookie mod 40%
Manager: Purchase markup 40%
Mechanic: Repair markup 55%
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Attributes:
INTELLIGENCE: 10
NEURAL SENSE: 10
REACTION: 11
INSTINCT: 12
DEXTERITY: 11
CONSTITUTION: 11 HP: 99
CHARISMA: 13
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Skills:
RECON/LIGHT: 055 % [055]
MEDIUM/HEAVY: 018 % [051] --
ASSAULT: 022 % [051] -
JUMP: 037 % [055]
SCOUTING: 005 % [056] ---
CLOSE COMBAT: 046 % [058]
GUIDED MSL.: 029 % [053] -
UNGUIDED MSL.: 017 % [055] --
CANNON: 038 % [055]
ENERGY WEAPON: 055 % [055]
INDIRECT FIRE: 012 % [056] --
EL. WARFARE: 014 % [053] --
SCANNER: 028 % [050] -
DEFENSIVE: 030 % [053]
DMG. CONTROL: 015 % [051] --
LEADERSHIP: 056 % [060]
BUSINESS: 014 % [055] --
SURVIVAL: 022 % [058] -
MEDICAL: 020 % [051] -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
03/20/2004 (7:35 pm)
A character sheet from my game Titans of Steel: Warring Suns. Usually you would see this in the game and increase the various skills and attributes. We also allowed a printable form and exchange files that seem to be popular.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jock: Eric Petersen aka Rosary
Squad: The Bolos
Race: HUMAN [MALE]
Age: 24 years 8 months
Size: 199 cm
Weight: 104 kg
Rank: ROOKIE [1]
Salary: 3400 $ / month
Titan: Mark I [34.4 t]
Battles: 00 [Wins/Losses: 00/00]
Hit ratio: N/A
Kills: 0
XP: 0 / 3400
DP: Pilot: 003 / Combat: 004 / Other: 000
Leader: Recruit rookie mod 40%
Manager: Purchase markup 40%
Mechanic: Repair markup 55%
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Attributes:
INTELLIGENCE: 10
NEURAL SENSE: 10
REACTION: 11
INSTINCT: 12
DEXTERITY: 11
CONSTITUTION: 11 HP: 99
CHARISMA: 13
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Skills:
RECON/LIGHT: 055 % [055]
MEDIUM/HEAVY: 018 % [051] --
ASSAULT: 022 % [051] -
JUMP: 037 % [055]
SCOUTING: 005 % [056] ---
CLOSE COMBAT: 046 % [058]
GUIDED MSL.: 029 % [053] -
UNGUIDED MSL.: 017 % [055] --
CANNON: 038 % [055]
ENERGY WEAPON: 055 % [055]
INDIRECT FIRE: 012 % [056] --
EL. WARFARE: 014 % [053] --
SCANNER: 028 % [050] -
DEFENSIVE: 030 % [053]
DMG. CONTROL: 015 % [051] --
LEADERSHIP: 056 % [060]
BUSINESS: 014 % [055] --
SURVIVAL: 022 % [058] -
MEDICAL: 020 % [051] -
-----------------------------------------------------------------
#20
03/20/2004 (7:43 pm)
Hmmmm.... mark tried discworld... cool stuff...kinda like it better than a display.... i learned to program on a 8 X 10 dumb terminal hooked up to a DEC alpha server... so made me very nostalgic... :) shall give it a whirl once i get the time... much better than shoot and run games.... 
Torque Owner John Vanderbeck
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