How long should it take to get 'comfortable' with torque?

#1 Well, that sort of stuff should only take about a week if you get the right tutorials etc. But to actually make a game with torque (and to understand its code) we're talking months to years.

#2 Patrick

I have used this engine for 2 years now.
My skills on c++ and script was nothing from the start ,
ok i hade programmed lots of small programs and scripts made atleast 4 major mods with the unreal engine,made lots of maps
,mutators,skins and moore.
To make models i hade no experience at all .

But for sometime now i really feel i have close to full control
over what im doing ,its some of the heavy c++ thats the problem
but the forums help alot.
I think dont rush take your time and you gonna end up with some real nice things.
There is much help in the forums,it was less 2 years ago :)

Dont think you make a game in weeks or some month only ,if you are alone or a small team.

-Billy

#3 Yeah, it has taken me almost 2 years to really get the hang of Torque, but I think I'm at a point where I have it tamed :D... LOL, until I try to do something difficult that is :|

#4 Interesting, thanks guys! I guess torque is going to by new hobby :P

#5 Interesting, thanks guys! I guess torque is going to by new hobby :P

#6 Took (still taking) me a long time, but with good reason: it does a lot, and it does a lot well and flexibly. The main DOCS were extremely helpful in understanding the engine structure (which is important). For C++ coding, Melv May's fxRenderObject is worth its weight in digital gold when it comes to understanding how to create new objects. I have a big multipage printout of the class hierarchy from ConsoleObject hanging on my wall that is also pretty useful. Good luck.

#7 It took me about a year to get familiar with Torque. And I'm still learning a depressing amount every time I sit down with it. :P

Pascal - glad to hear you enjoy the chart, I had a heck of a time figuring out how to get Doxygen to output it. ;)

#8 Chart? where?

#9 Http://www.garagegames.com/docs/torque.sdk/engine/inherits.php

Great stuff Ben.

#10 Wow 0_0

#11 Hi Patrick

I have had the engine for about a year now and Iam very comfortable looking at the code and can even read some of it.

John H.

#12 Going back to Billy's comment on not going too fast - I've been working on an online version of Rock, Paper, Scissors for nigh-on two, maybe three years now. I'm glad I didn't start with something more complex. ;)

(This is in PHP, of course, not Torque.)

@Pascal - thanks. I just turned on the generation flag ;)

#13 Php is easy compared to torque. After 4 days of fiddling with it, I feel like I would have made faster progress if I just used a library like clanlib, or the irrlicht engine. I think it's the whole "learning how it works" thing that's holding me back from understanding. It's a very complex piece of software :P

and i'm a Perl fanboy XP

#14 I've been working my freaking tail off for the past 5 days trying to get something* accomplshed in torque... and it just doesn't seem to happening. I can't say I'm not trying, because damn I ever. Unfortunately, writing some SDL/OpenGL code is easier than doing anything in torque, and i'm getting extremely frustrated.

After so many hours of reading documents, tutorials, and 'screwin around', i still can't do anything, i can't change the orcs weapon in the demo, i can't connect maps, can't add in my own bots, or a bot that shoots for that matter. Furthermore, i don't even know how to make ai for a bot.... i know the principles, but not how it's done in torque.

the tic tac toe tutorial 'kinda' helped, but ended up being counterproductive in the end as the tutorial was incomplete and missing code. Yeah this is a rant with no real point, but i'm incredibley frustrated with my purchase right now. I new torque would be complicated, but not this complicated. Geez.

*= anything. move the character, or the camera, or add a hud element... anything...

--- edit ---

call me crazy, but originally when i decided to buy a 3d engine, I wanted to focus on programming games, instead of focusing on learning algorithms and non such. Boy was I fooled :+) I'll give it time of course... but i'm not a very patient person, and instead of focusing on game generation, i'm focusing on learning an API to an API.... >_<

#15 Hey Patrick,

I had the same type of feeling as I just didn't know where to start. I followed the TicTacToes tutorial and it gave me a start into the code. I also downloaded the zip file that came with it. So that made things easier.

It will start to make sence, I am slowly getting somewhere but there are manythings that are still over my head but I just keep picking at it. 5 days is a short period of time to learn something that took a few years to develop by a team of people. :)

Its really easy to develop a little demo in gl and sdl, until you get to things like model loaders. Model formats are a pain and believe me I know. I started a project called OpenModel that loads different model formats.
Then the math library you are going to need is going to take you a few days give or take a month.

I spent 3 months working on a game engine and I am still working on it and there are so many little things that slow you down and are increadible frustration.

Torque is a full size game engine, there is a reason why you see so many people start there own game engine and game and never complete it. Its not a small task were you can finish it in a week. Torque has a lot of things to learn but in the long run Torque is well tested and has all the tools needed.

Perhaps you could write a small game on your own in the same amount of time as it would take to use torque. But its not well tested and is not going to be as scalable past anything other then Tetris.

If you have real issues with torque then take a break from torque and try writing your own 3ds model loader and render it. Textured and all. :)

That will give you a really nice appreciation for pain in the ass. :)

Ben

#16 Patrick, instead of trying to learn the engine from its source, and going the C++ way, stick to the Mission editor, Gui editor and scripting, and have fun working on your game : learn as you go, and don't worry about knowing the whole engine from its deepest, grumbling innards to the sugar coating :)

There is quite a few members who've been around for quite a long time, and I think I can honestly say that most of us still don't know everything about Torque there is to know.
Yes, it can be overwhelming at times, because it's more than a complete engine in quite a few ways, etc.
You don't have to have a deep understanding of the mechanics of Torque to make games with it, you only have to master its usage, if you see what I mean.
That's the whole point of a complete game engine after all ;)

Keep at it, the personal rewards are well worth it : when you look back at all this in a few months, and see the inroads you've made, you'll be darn proud.

And again, since it's only been 5 days, you should concentrate on using the engine, not coding in it : use Torque script and all the other tools at your disposal to experiment with the engine.

Most important : Have loads of fun !!!
Keep on Torquin' !!

{edit : some editorial changes, whatnot ;))

#17 @Patrick

I'm remember that feeling well. Here would be my two main recommendations:
1. Leave the C++ code alone for now as to do anything you need to have the "big picture" in your head and the big picture is very big.

2. Play around in the game with the console as much as you can and see what you can do. Doing this allows you to mess around without making any permanent changes.

Regarding #2, my big epiphany came when I figured out I could access objects by name and learned the dump() and tree() commands. If you are already doing this, ignore the rest of the this post.

Load up the demo and the fps example.
Some things to try at one line at a time on the console: (BTW: bring it up with ~)

tree(); // brings up a window with all objects
LocalClientConnection.dump();  // dumps all the members/methods for the local client connection
LocalClientConnection.player.dump(); // ditto for the initial player character

// Now for some fun:

// press F8 to drop the camera at the player, then fly around somewhere above the terrain
// and put the following command all on one line to drop in a player
new AIPlayer(bob) { datablock="LightMaleHumanArmor"; position=localclientconnection.camera.getPosition(); };

// fly a little distance away and do the following:
bob.setMoveDestination(localclientconnection.camera.getTransform());

// repeat the above a couple time to give bob a workout

// make bob temporarily invisible:
bob.setCloaked(1);

// bring him back:
bob.setCloaked(0);

// fly around to get a goood look at bob and give then give him a crossbow:
bob.mountImage(CrossBowImage,0);

// load him up with some ammo
bob.incInventory(CrossbowAmmo,5);

// now fly around to another location near bob and create dirk:
new AIPlayer(dirk) { datablock="LightMaleHumanArmor"; position=localclientconnection.camera.getPosition(); };

// aim bob at dirk
bob.setAimObject(dirk);

// fire away!
bob.setImageTrigger(0,1);

// if you want bob to aim higher (he's probably shooting at dirk's feet) try this:
bob.setAimLocation(VectorAdd(dirk.getPosition(),"0 0 1"));

// you may need to give him more ammo: 
// (his trigger image is still 1 so he should fire right away)
bob.incInventory(CrossbowAmmo,5);

// bob's done enough harm, take him out
bob.kill();

-Pascal

#18 Pascal,

Some interesting ideas in there. I am going to play now.. :)

Thanks, Ben

#19 Wow thanks guys. that brought my spirits up a LOT. Now if i could just get out of work I would try that ^_^

And i should apologize for getting frustrated and flying off the handle like that. I need to learn patience. It's just hard being a newbie and not really knowing what to do.

#20 Dude, I totally understand were your coming from. There are tons of posts regarding were to start and being a bit frustrated. Torque is huge :) There is no getting around the fact that its going to take a lot to get confortable. It will come ( well I hope anyway, I haven't gotten there yet :) ).

Later, Ben