Types of Packs

#1 Torque-only content packs?

It would be nice to have some content packs for regular old 2d games.

#2 Actually, just plain ol' 3D models usable for Torque or non-Torque would be nice. And more Game Beavers' content... :)

#3 Steve has a good point, max source (or whatever program is used) should be included even in Torque oriented packs, making them useful for any engine.

In my opinion, some of the most versatile packs would be those that are simply representations of real objects.

This could include building packs, modern weapons, realistic cars and other vehicles, realistic historical weapons (rather than blue glowing frost brand swords +1, etc).

People are more likely to buy something like this than a content pack that has a distinctive style, as most developers would be paranoid about distinctive-looking objects being used in multiple games.

I also like the idea of a sprite-based content pack (which you could use with Torque, if you wanted to make a sprite-based game using GUI code, or a combined 3d/sprite game like Ragnarok Online). But especially in the case of sprites, it is hard to make anything that looks really good without it having a very distinct style.

#4

Quote:I also like the idea of a sprite-based content pack (which you could use with Torque, if you wanted to make a sprite-based game using GUI code, or a combined 3d/sprite game like Ragnarok Online)."

I *really* need to shoot some video of our 3d sprites in action. If anyone is interested in 3d sprites, I *highly* recommend checking out Poser. The program + a buttload of extremely high quality assets (with a commercial license) set Prairie Games back around $1000

You can script Poser with Python and so automate sprite creation. It works beautifully.



-J

#5 Hmm, confused. How do you script poser? I mean, do you animate the bones with python? or just load an animation or what?

Phil.

#6 Characters/Props are shot at 22 degree increments (16 views per pose). They can have multiple poses per state. Poser's python interface allows you to pretty much drive everything in the program. So, you can load a new scene, apply a pose, render/rotate/render/rotate ... apply a new pose, render these frames, rinse repeat. When all the frames are generated, a .tsd file is created (used by the 360 stuff I wrote), which is the sprite definition for the realtime engine.

We keep the scenes/poses/namings/scale information in script and so the all of the game assets can be regenerated at any time, automatically. This doesn't mean they just spring from the earth, there still needs to be art. It does mean our assets are nicely wrangled....

16 views looks really, really smooth as you rotate around an object... It's much better than I thought it would be.

-J

EDIT: Importantly, there is a standard license applied to the assets we use... which allows commercial exploitation. The program + a thriving art community + this license = a solution that works for us. 3d models/animation/texturing isn't something we have resources for right now... no way, no how. How many character models with animation and texturing have you actually seen around here?

#7 I think Alex nailed it.

I would like my modelers to work on unique, distinctive elements for my game - stuff they can sink their creative teeth into. But many games contain a tremendous amount of "miscellanious" models that aren't really specific to any game, but could be used in many games. Sort of like being a Set Designer for a TV show or play... you may custom design certain parts of it, but the bulk of it you wou want to be able to pick up at the local thrift store or Wal-Mart.

Household items - Furniture. Generic-looking wallpaper, doors, windows. Vases, glasses, mugs, plates, framed pictures, fireplaces, even generic floorplans.

Animals (though this may be tricky due to different means of animating them).

Vehicles - "generic" cars, trucks, bicycles, motorcycles. Real-world military vehicles with low polygon counts would be so useful its almost obscene. What about horse-drawn vehicles and sailing ships? Some fairly generic spacecraft (flying saucers, space stations, etc.) would be nice, too.

3D Icons might be possible --- how many games have the equivalent of a "health pack" or "energy pickup" in the levels?

Sports gear - balls, basketball hoops, golf clubs, a generic football stadium or basketball court, flags, banners, bleachers, goalposts, helmets, and trophies.

Weaponry - as already mentioned. Real-world weaponry of all kinds. Science-fiction or fantasy weaponry might be cool too, but tend to be more of "signature" variety.
Don't neglect ancient siege weapons, cannons, and artillery.

Buildings - a pack of generic-looking buildings (or even exterior textures) would be pretty handy as well. Corner Quickie-Marts, village churches, apartment buildings, skyscrapers, mobile homes (good for a "Sim Tornado" game), office buildings, supermarkets, toll booths, military barracks, gas stations, and fast-food restaurants.

Landscaping - trees, bushes, streetlights, mailboxes, park benches, generic statues / water fountains, nicely textured boulders & rock formations, lampposts, fences, gates, flowers.

Skyboxes - a suite of generic skyboxes, with nicely linked textures and different times of day, might be handy too.

I think the key for a pack for *ME* would not be in how blown away I am by the models & textures, but quite to the contrary... I'd like to see a whole bunch of "background objects" that I can see myself using over and over again. Quantity of related items, and low polygon counts, would trump dazzling modeling and the use of the most high-end features available in my book.

Ideally, there would be versions of different levels of detail & polygon counts. I could then use all versions in an LOD-scheme, or I could select the version that works best for my particular game.

The models would HAVE to be textured - texturing usually takes more time than geometry, anyway. Either high-resolution textures should be used (which I can scale down myself), or multiple versions of textures provided.

#8 Just a note, our barrel and crate pack (the cheapest and most generic) is our worst seller, and our most specific pack (the WarSparrow) is the best seller. I hear what people are saying here, but the sales figures don't match what people say they want.

#9 The WarSparrow is something different, that you can play with... a flying demo with scripts, etc. However much people *need* crates, they aren't very fun. It better to dink around with fun stuff, after work, between classes, on your way to watch the tube.

#10 Josh,

I agree, just pointing out that the 'content' is not being purchased for in game use. I am thinking that the tutorial aspect of the packs is the cuase of the popularity, and that people working with the TGE are sick of looking at Blue Guy and the Orc.

The generic in game content is not a super hot seller. Just wanted to point out that people are saying they want certain things, but the things they say they want are not the things that are being purchased.

#11 My sardonic tone aside, I would say that if you are planning on selling content packs, as with anything: Know your market.

#12 The Blue/Torque Guy is no longer apart of stock Torque Game Engine CVS and not in the Head either. It's either the Orc or some very ugly green alien(which is used in the Tutorial base, they should have stuck with Torque Guy). Ohh well.... The Torque Guy is dead, long live Torque Guy.. :p

#13 Nathan,
You can still get mr blue guy if you checkout an earlier version :)

#14 Joe:

Your barrel, crate, and drum pack is really what I'm talking about... that's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about... but based on the description, the quantity doesn't really seem to be there. Particularly if the barrel and the drum are the same model with a different texture.

As a full-budget professional studio the value would be clear - the hourly wage of your artists would be easily double or more the cost per object here. HOWEVER:

1) You may not be using every object in the pack for a project. While over several projects you may end up using all the content --- if all I want is a fir tree, I'm paying $25 for a single tree model.

2) You may still need to do customization on these objects, losing some of your savings.

3) You are primarily marketing to hobbyist / low-budget game development groups, who need a bigger bang-for-the-buck. I expect that the WarSparrow sells better because it allows programmers to throw something into their game that looks sharp and they frankly COULDN'T do it on their own (not without a lot of time spent learning to model), whereas even a beginner can whip out a textured box shape.

For me, the issue is quantity to make it a value for me. Looking at both the barrel and tree pack, I see something where I'd expect 8x the content for the same price (and perhaps a little bit more of a grab-bag of related objects). Am I too cheap? Maybe. I don't know that you'd sell 8x more packs if you upped the quantity that high.

#15 5 models in the pack, each with four different textures, detail levels all done, exported, and ready to be modified. The barrel and drum are different models, and the wood barrel is a model I am actually quite proud of (best game barrel one can buy at any price) All this for $10.

If this is not enough quantity, and people want more, it would be good to know. Adding 8x the content for that price is too much to make it even close to being feasible to produce them.

We did a few content packs as test cases, to see what would sell and at what price, and the sales are showing us that the generic stuff is not what people want to purchase.

We are trying to find the right products for this market (hobbyist game devs as a majority) and it appears that the generic content is not what they want.

#16 Price might be another thing to look at.

Frankly, I'd rather pay $15 or $20 for a pack very full of stuff, with the hopes that I'd get several models that I'll like. I may be unusual though.

Glad it's 5 models rather than 3 - I only had time to do a brief review of your sale sheet, and I didn't see a full list of contents. The screenshots and description made it sound like there were only 3 models (albeit with different textures, which is nice).

#17 Have you considered setting up a "pick and choose" website?

Make a ton of models.
Place images of them from a couple of angles on a website.
Setup a download per charge deal?

Let's people pick and choose the models they most need, instead of getting a pack that they might use half of and not use the other half. Not sure how viable this is for you though.

#18 Good grief, I can't believe we're arguing about the price of BraveTree's content packs! These are a great deal for anybody. I would easily pay $25 for a single tree if I had a need for it. The time savings alone is worth more than the asking price, not to mention that the work is professional quality.

@Kevin - I like the sound of your "pick and choose" idea.
@RedCore - Might something like that also open the door for custom orders? I have no idea what the market is like for that, I'm just throwing out an idea. (might be a bad one :)

#19 We tried using TurboSquid and splitting up the models. Since Turbosquid fixes the price on assets, it did not work out too well. WE even complained at how high they priced our assets.

Creating a website with our own e-commerce system (or using an existing one) was not something we were all that interested in exploring until we were sure there was a market for content packs.

As far as pricing goes..

We wanted to pick a price that would = sales without shooting support costs through the roof. With this content, and people dinking around with the engine whilst adding it, some of the support requests have been a little 'borderline'.

Dropping the price too low would possibly up the support costs without substantially increasing revenue.

It would be good to hear some more specifics of exactly what people want. If we heard 500 people say, if that 'barrel and crate packs had 4 more shapes and 3 more textures, I'd purchase' we would certainly make the additions.

We are constantly searching for ways to provide valuable tools and assets to developers at prices that make sense for us to produce them.

We are working on a few more Content Packs,and based on sales, we are focusing on single, more complex shapes that have high tutorial value. We also are going to extend our existing packs to support more formats (blender, milkshape, Maya, Gamespace) in addition to 3dsmax. As not all the exporters support all the features the shapes use, we will be rolling these out as the technology allows.

The information posted in this thread has been helpful to me, and it will help us to better focus our efforts.

Joe

#20 Hello Joe,

I'm actually one of the guys who "really" needs the Crate and Barrel pack but I went and spend my hobby fund on buying your Car and Warsparrow pack.

I think a lot of us understand that its really the bang for the buck. Although a lot of you guys will say that $10USD is not much but considering that this is a hobby and I live in a 3rd world country ... its a little difficult to justify the purchase to the wife. :D

So in the end, I bypassed the cheaper Crates and Barrels and bought the more expensive ones since in the end ... its easier to "show" my wife what I bought.

I believe that this situation is (more or less) true for a lot of hobbiests. Hehehe. I'm actually still beefing up my hobby fund so I can get my hands on your Environment Pack. I've recently puchased the Reaction Engine and Monster Studios seems to be MIA and I may be forced to come back to Torque. :(

Alex