A6 vs Torque

#1 1. torque script is fairly efficient. Lots of processing in tight loops and time critical stuff like rendering needs to be in C++. Having *all* your "game logic" in script is not a problem at all.

2. You need C++ when the game as-is does not give you what you need. This really can't be answered without information about the game you intend to make.

3. Yes many sorts of multiplayer games can be created by only modifying script, but it seems unlikely you could create exactly the game you WANT to make without modifying at least *some* of the C++ code.

4. There is no tutorial that covers building a *game* that I know of....anyone else?

5. Torque documentation is mostly references but there are some good overviews and plenty of tuotorials for doing this-or-that thing. You already found out in your research the learning curve is steep. Don't underestimate that. On the plus side some great support can be found in these forums and in the #garagegames irc chat room on irc.maxgaming.net.

#2 Multiplayer is more or less intrinsic to Torque's architecture. If you write a game that "flows" from Torque's architecture, it will be multiplayer. The key here is to then understand Torque sufficiently to be able to do that. ;)

#3 Hmm...so basically....if I follow the guidelines...or "standards" for the Torque system, the game will automatically be multiplayer?

#4 That's basically the way Torque works - if you've tried the Realm Wars game (a realllllyyyy cool game being developed by Torque users, and it's free), you can see that it actually gives you an option of whether or not you want it multiplayer. Essentially, while you're starting a mission, it's actually a single multiplayer game....

As for tutorials, I don't really think there are. It would be nice to have one though, but the thing is, it'll be really hard. Torque can not only be used for FPS games, but basically anything else. It's hard to write a tutorial suitable for everyone.

#5 Thats probably a bad thing....I think tutorials are definately needed. Otherwise, a lot users will left in the dust. I encountered many folks stating the lack of tutorials and decent documentations for Torque and that they ended up leaving it sit on their hard drive.
Oh well. None the less, I just the purchase, I hope I dont end up that way.

#6 Whats a "tutorial"? I have found many "how to"s for torque that one could say are tutorials.

Some of those links are:
http://www.hallofworlds.com/pages/Torque/TorqueNotes/
http://www.garagegames.com/articles/networking1/
http://tork.zenkel.com/tge_snipits/
etc - as well as the Garage Games itself.

One of the problems I have run into is that the engine is growing and as a result if something was written 6 months ago it might not work without some tweaking. Thats were Torque requires more of a programmer mind than say A6 where the examples tend to continue to work. On the "plus" side I have found IRC to be a great place to ask a question as well as these forms.

#7 Hello,
I am a noobie, but I've done a little work with A5 and A6. I decided to purchase the book available at Books-a-million. I just ordered it and should get it in a couple more days. I'll give feedback as soon as I receive the book.

This is the book:
3D Game Programming All in One with CDROM by Kenneth C. Finney

and it was $36.39 after shipping.

I saw some posts concerning the book & decided to buy it. Here's a link:

www.booksamillion.com/ncom/books?id=3025275394021&pid=159200136X

#8 I can say its a great book and one worth purchasing. I use it to "dabble" with the Torque engine and says its fairly extensive. It doesn't deal much with the C++ side of things but it does delve deeply into creating a game, and using low cost tools. For example, the modeller they use is Milkshape which we can all agree is far cheaper the 3DS Max or Maya, most game books I have use 3DS Max as an example. Which most of us indies, or like me "Hobbyist" can not afford.

#9 The book is definitely well worth the price. I'd even go as far to say worth more than the price payed for the book. You made the right choice.

-Jase

#10 Yep,
I got the book now. I just started reading and I have to say, after skimming the book and then reading the first chapter, this book is definitely worth the price. If you are just now beginning with gaming or with Torque, I'd recommend the book.

Peace.

#11 Does A6/GameStudio/Whatever have a contest or something on buzzing the GarageGames forums?

Do I have a chance to win if I make an A6 Thread too?

Torque is a very good engine... I can't compare it with A6, because it doesn't compare...

-Josh Ritter
Technical Director
Prairie Games

#12 Well, if you look on the conitec forum there is a thread under General Topics titled "Torque vs 3DGS" It's got a lot of replies, so basicly, that's the same thing as what's here.

#13 Josh:

I'm sorry. I guess you hate for people to have comparrison conversations...but oh well. I personally like to hear feedback from people who have had the experience.

Anyway, I think maybe it would be better to simply ignore threads concerning topics of which may offend you and move on to something else. Life is much more enjoyable that way. ;)

peace.

PS>> Loving my experience with Torque so far!

#14 At the time there were quite a few A6 threads. That is all.

#15 It's all good...
Anyway, I'm kind of new at this but I am loving the Torque experience. I think the biggest thing is the patience. I'd like to ask:

On average, how long would you guys say it took you, after starting with Torque, to develope your first game? Just curious.

Thanks all

#16 Took me around 4 months of playing around in Torque to finish a little game, most of the game's work happened in the last month after I actually knew what I was doing in Torque. Snapshot of MultiMayhem

#17 3 weeks. Screenies here. Some details in the previous plan.

To fully qualify that however, I still don't really know Torque. I sorta skipped the "learn Torque" bit and made the game first. Now that I have a little time on my hands, I'm going back to revisit it (torque that is, not the game) a bit.

#18 The thing about Torque that is similar in any game or graphics engine is that there is usually a large learning curve. All engines have some similarities and parts that intrinsically make sense and are easy to understand. Other areas are not. The game I'm currently involved with is going along great now. The past 3 months we've been basically going along at a snails pace, working on 1 or 2 interiors only trying to see why things weren't coming in quite right, fixing collisions and trying to learn everything we could at the onset in order that future development may go faster. Now we're flying, creating models and bringing them in, adjusting small things now that the major issues have been resolved and moving forward at a much better pace. Look for "Fish Food" (Not the official title as of yet, but might be) some time in the next several months and prepare for bloddy, scaley mayhem.

#19 I first tried A6 and hit a wall. Now I am working with Torque. A6 has some "out of the box" success feeling associated with it. However, how far one can actually go with it seems limited to me. It doesn't have legs. Torque, on the other hand, feels unlimited; albeit this comes along with the legendary steep learning curve.

The steep learning curve concerns me; not so much from the stand point of myself being able to do something productive with Torque, but to the extent it is limiting Torque's success in its own market place. I have read posts about people giving up on Torque which is a shame. It also causes me to wonder how many of the quoted 15,000 users are actually active and productive users.

As time goes on, the game developer market market continues to evolve new segments (e.g., hobbiest), and expectations with existing segments change; becoming more demanding. My sense of is that if we paid a little more attention to the learning curve problem, we could build more successes for existing users, bring even more assetts to this already active community, and increase Torques penetration into existing and new markets.

For starters, there are things that could be done short of full scale tutorial or manual production. Possibilities include providing improved organization and navigation of the existing material from the Torque desktop, packaging a subset of essential beginner and reference material and making it available for download, bundling the Finney book with the Torque purchase (or making it more prominent/avialble up front). I'm sure others have many good ideas as well.

I've just been pursuing Torque a couple of weeks and so feel like I might be going out on a limb here. I certainly do not mean to offend. But from reading many posts on the forum, it sounds like the steep learning curve has become an accepted part of Torque. IMO this is neither good or necessary for what is otherwise such a great product.

#20 Kristen,

Not an offensive post at all. We totally agree, and we're all very committed to making the learning curve and out of box experience easier for Torque. To that end, we're making progress on several fronts. Here are some examples:

Torque2D is coming, and that'll be a great environment for learning Torque's basic methodologies before they jump in full-bore with TGE / TSE.

We're pushing to improve documentation and offer books as well. This year, we'll be rolling out "GG Press", with docs from here on the site, the excellent Essential Guide to Torque, by Ed Maurina, and a new book by Ken Finney. We also have plans to offer a bundle with Ken's existing book.

Also, we're making some major improvements to the site, and the organization of the docs and resources. Going to be a great year. :)

Chris Calef just worked with us to put out the Torque Build Environment, which will (as we develop it more), make it easier even for people who aren't famililar with compilers to start using Torque.

We're launching a number of new add-ons and technologies which make it easier for people to do what they want with Torque-- The RTS Starter Kit, for example, with more on the way.

Artists face the same getting started / learning curve problems too, and with stuff like the Torque ShowTool Pro, Map2Dif improvements, and many other enchancements to the art pipeline, artists will have much easier time soon too. :)