The phantom
by Dave · in General Discussion · 12/22/2003 (4:57 pm) · 29 replies
www.penny-arcade.com/phantom.php3 its about the phantom game thing. alot of people say ita a hoax but that say its not. Why did I post this here? Well it says this:
"Rob really talked up the developer angle at this point. He said that Infinium was willing to accept all sorts of independent games, the SDK would be provided for free, and that these indie companies wouldn't need to go through a publisher. That does greatly reduce the cost for a small developer and it's a great way to get your game into people's homes. Profits from these games would be split 40/60 towards Infinium, but the price point for these indie games was not mentioned."
Who know if this is real to learn more read it. This could help alot of people here with good 3D game to make some money.
"Rob really talked up the developer angle at this point. He said that Infinium was willing to accept all sorts of independent games, the SDK would be provided for free, and that these indie companies wouldn't need to go through a publisher. That does greatly reduce the cost for a small developer and it's a great way to get your game into people's homes. Profits from these games would be split 40/60 towards Infinium, but the price point for these indie games was not mentioned."
Who know if this is real to learn more read it. This could help alot of people here with good 3D game to make some money.
About the author
#2
It would still be possible *IF* they had some showy, top-notch titles to help sell the system. But that's another problem... if you don't "OWN" the titles, will people really sign up for this? Even with my old Dreamcast, support dropped for it a couple years back, I still have a library of games I can play. I'll keep playing them until the CDs crack or the Dreamcast goes to console heaven. Not so with these guys... the subscription service requires broadband, requires that you are willing to keep forking out $10 a month for the service, and requires that you trust they'll still be around as long as you want to play games on the system. I don't think gamers will go for that too easily.
It also sounds like these guys are pushing in way out of their league. Which I'd respect, as that's kinda the indie thing to do. But it doesn't sound like they really care about the industry or the hobby at all - they aren't doing their homework. They don't have a niche for themselves. Maybe having access to lots of games for $10 a month (I wasn't clear if that's ALL you had to pay, or if there was an additional surcharge for content) could be it --- but when you can rent games from Blockbuster or borrow them from friends, I don't see it too clearly. I think these guys are gonna have a tough time paying for their own T1 bill.
On the other hand, Andre LaMoth's XGameStation DOES occupy a very specific niche. It won't sell in the millions, but it'll probably do much better than the Phantom. I don't see making much of money selling games for the thing, though.
12/22/2003 (10:44 pm)
Even if it doesn't end up being so much vaporware, smoke, and mirrors... it sounds like the platform is going to die faster and harder than the 3DO. Face it... they are going up against the PS2, X-Box, Gamecube (now at $99), GBA, and if they don't manage to deliver very early in the year, potentially the PS3 and X-Box2. Not to mention competition from PCs - though PCs cost at least 3x as much, so those are less of an issue.It would still be possible *IF* they had some showy, top-notch titles to help sell the system. But that's another problem... if you don't "OWN" the titles, will people really sign up for this? Even with my old Dreamcast, support dropped for it a couple years back, I still have a library of games I can play. I'll keep playing them until the CDs crack or the Dreamcast goes to console heaven. Not so with these guys... the subscription service requires broadband, requires that you are willing to keep forking out $10 a month for the service, and requires that you trust they'll still be around as long as you want to play games on the system. I don't think gamers will go for that too easily.
It also sounds like these guys are pushing in way out of their league. Which I'd respect, as that's kinda the indie thing to do. But it doesn't sound like they really care about the industry or the hobby at all - they aren't doing their homework. They don't have a niche for themselves. Maybe having access to lots of games for $10 a month (I wasn't clear if that's ALL you had to pay, or if there was an additional surcharge for content) could be it --- but when you can rent games from Blockbuster or borrow them from friends, I don't see it too clearly. I think these guys are gonna have a tough time paying for their own T1 bill.
On the other hand, Andre LaMoth's XGameStation DOES occupy a very specific niche. It won't sell in the millions, but it'll probably do much better than the Phantom. I don't see making much of money selling games for the thing, though.
#3
For the phantom to make any difference in the hardware markets, without a marketing budget that would make god winch (Microsoft anyone) it's going to have to be a lengendary device. Doesn't have that feeling to it does it :( I don't think i've ever seen an interview when they even sounded like they knew what they were doing!
Shame that Linux Console never got off the ground.
12/23/2003 (6:13 am)
I do like the XGameStation. I always put Andre in the same category as Derek Smart. However I think he's proved me wrong now.For the phantom to make any difference in the hardware markets, without a marketing budget that would make god winch (Microsoft anyone) it's going to have to be a lengendary device. Doesn't have that feeling to it does it :( I don't think i've ever seen an interview when they even sounded like they knew what they were doing!
Shame that Linux Console never got off the ground.
#4
I agree with your assessment for the most part - with the caveat that it COULD work if these guys were targeting an unaddressed market segment (like the XGS's "hobbyist" market). But it seems like they are aiming squarely at the hardcore, traditional console market, which is already overcrowded. I don't see the Phantom offering ANY kind of competitive advantage to the consumer.
It sounds like they may be offering something of an advantage to game DEVELOPERS... which is a good start. But unless their scheme manages to draw some top-quality, exclusive content that they have the marketing budget to push it, it ain't gonna fly. What they really need is an exclusive deal with Square or a Sega or a similar developer - some hotly anticipated content that can only be found on that box.
12/23/2003 (8:04 am)
Andre LaMothe and Derek Smart? No way. Andre actually finishes things. :) Actually, I really enjoyed his old "Tricks of the Game Programming Gurus" about a decade ago... it helped me get my first demo together and get me a job in the games industry.I agree with your assessment for the most part - with the caveat that it COULD work if these guys were targeting an unaddressed market segment (like the XGS's "hobbyist" market). But it seems like they are aiming squarely at the hardcore, traditional console market, which is already overcrowded. I don't see the Phantom offering ANY kind of competitive advantage to the consumer.
It sounds like they may be offering something of an advantage to game DEVELOPERS... which is a good start. But unless their scheme manages to draw some top-quality, exclusive content that they have the marketing budget to push it, it ain't gonna fly. What they really need is an exclusive deal with Square or a Sega or a similar developer - some hotly anticipated content that can only be found on that box.
#5
-Jeff Tunnell GG
12/23/2003 (8:21 am)
The Phantom guys have been talking to us for over a year. We are under NDA, so I can't say much. Suffice it to say that if anything good comes, you will hear about it.-Jeff Tunnell GG
#6
12/23/2003 (9:09 am)
Hmmm... well, if the Phantom guys were the ones that initiated the dialog, that may demonstrate that they have been doing their homework after all.
#7
01/02/2004 (5:33 pm)
The PHANTOM is a real system. It is coming out. I read about it in EGM.
#8
01/03/2004 (7:51 am)
Ooh... he READ about it... it MUST be real! ;) 
#9
01/03/2004 (8:41 am)
The Phantom Nose?
#11
01/05/2004 (6:56 pm)
Darn right the Phantom Nose. 
#12
Hm... they have 20,000 and need 20,000,000... at least...
Interesting...
11/24/2004 (5:46 pm)
'The Phantom,' has run out of money. They have about $20,000 cash on hand, they're over $10 million in debt, and they estimate that it would take an addition $10 million on top of that to get the console to market.Hm... they have 20,000 and need 20,000,000... at least...
Interesting...
#14
20 million isnt that much considering where Infineon is and what the potential benefits are financially for them if the can pull it off. Hopefully they can pull through and secure the funding.
@Xtencilate,
Don't laugh too hard because if it is indeed doomed you can kiss goodbye a good revenue stream that was very willing and open to using quality made "indie" games such as what your peers are making here at GG.
I don't think that I need to hilite anymore how short sighted your comments are and that your lame attempt at a joke isn't very funny to those of us who are actually busting our asses off to achieve something.
11/24/2004 (6:32 pm)
@Josh20 million isnt that much considering where Infineon is and what the potential benefits are financially for them if the can pull it off. Hopefully they can pull through and secure the funding.
@Xtencilate,
Don't laugh too hard because if it is indeed doomed you can kiss goodbye a good revenue stream that was very willing and open to using quality made "indie" games such as what your peers are making here at GG.
I don't think that I need to hilite anymore how short sighted your comments are and that your lame attempt at a joke isn't very funny to those of us who are actually busting our asses off to achieve something.
#15
ThinkTanks was demoed on the Phantom at e3 last year. Guess how muhc time it took us to get the build ready for the show?
Zero hours.
Hmm.. lets see, delivery platform that cost developers nothing. Potential installed user base of gamers looking for games. Sounds like a good thing to me.
and then you have xArcade.. dowloadable games right to the xBox.
For a seemingly stupid idea, it seems to haev some big players thinking there is enough potential to throw some serious money at it.
Will Phantom succeed? No idea.. will xArcade take off? No idea.. both may fail miserably. But eventually, someone will get it right.
These distribution channels will open up the world to smaller teams with smaller games that cannot afford to compete for shelf space at wal-mart. I look forward to a time when the playing field is a little more level.. where the consumer is deciding what succeeds and what fails (and not the buyers for wal-mart and the people buying huge multi-page advertising spreads in the magazines)
With Steam now being used to deliver half life 2, people are starting to take notice. Downloadable games are here to stay and it is only going to get better.
People can poo-poo whatever they want... many said the same sort of thing back when Amazon started selling books online.
11/24/2004 (7:30 pm)
Just want to add my comments..ThinkTanks was demoed on the Phantom at e3 last year. Guess how muhc time it took us to get the build ready for the show?
Zero hours.
Hmm.. lets see, delivery platform that cost developers nothing. Potential installed user base of gamers looking for games. Sounds like a good thing to me.
and then you have xArcade.. dowloadable games right to the xBox.
For a seemingly stupid idea, it seems to haev some big players thinking there is enough potential to throw some serious money at it.
Will Phantom succeed? No idea.. will xArcade take off? No idea.. both may fail miserably. But eventually, someone will get it right.
These distribution channels will open up the world to smaller teams with smaller games that cannot afford to compete for shelf space at wal-mart. I look forward to a time when the playing field is a little more level.. where the consumer is deciding what succeeds and what fails (and not the buyers for wal-mart and the people buying huge multi-page advertising spreads in the magazines)
With Steam now being used to deliver half life 2, people are starting to take notice. Downloadable games are here to stay and it is only going to get better.
People can poo-poo whatever they want... many said the same sort of thing back when Amazon started selling books online.
#16
Is there risk involved in getting an enterprise like this off the ground - absolutely. Will the Phantom succeed or survive to be aquired? That history is yet to be written. Tivo announced this week it will be putting ads on their service.
The important observations right now are more about Steam authenticating retail customers and getting contact information.
11/24/2004 (7:38 pm)
I can't comment on specifics, but if you read about the capital commitments that have been made to Infinium, the team they've assembled, the partners they're lining up you'll see the whole story isn't contained in this SEC report. They did talk about a 2nd Qtr. 2005 launch - that should have them out in plenty of time for being in the channel for Christmas.Is there risk involved in getting an enterprise like this off the ground - absolutely. Will the Phantom succeed or survive to be aquired? That history is yet to be written. Tivo announced this week it will be putting ads on their service.
The important observations right now are more about Steam authenticating retail customers and getting contact information.
#17
Being $10,000,000 in debt, having $20,000 cash on hand, and needing $20,000,000 to get your product launched is an interesting position... I really have no idea, though it doesn't sound good.
I bought HL2 thru Steam... you can play while it's still downloading... low-tech, but still very cool...
11/24/2004 (7:40 pm)
I don't think anyone is poo-pooing online distribution... Being $10,000,000 in debt, having $20,000 cash on hand, and needing $20,000,000 to get your product launched is an interesting position... I really have no idea, though it doesn't sound good.
I bought HL2 thru Steam... you can play while it's still downloading... low-tech, but still very cool...
#18
As late as Oct. 20 & 27th they got a "Bridge Loan Agreement with Hazinu Ltd." & "JM Investors, LLC, Fenmore Holdings, LLC, Viscount Investments Limited and Congregation Mishkan Sholom" for a total of $600,000 and it was based on a 10% promisory note and a 1,000,000 shares. They'll have an uphill battle to secure more capital, but the climate for such fundraising is getting better.
I'm not defending venture funded enterprise, I'm part of GG partly because this isn't the way we have chosen to capitalize, so don't think I believe that adding cash will build a success.
We talk about a lot of things around the Garage - All I will say is we actually speculate more about MoM (in a positive way) than the Phantom.
11/24/2004 (8:50 pm)
@Josh - I don't think you're poo-pooing (thats not your style) I think its too soon to speculate on Infinium based on an SEC report.As late as Oct. 20 & 27th they got a "Bridge Loan Agreement with Hazinu Ltd." & "JM Investors, LLC, Fenmore Holdings, LLC, Viscount Investments Limited and Congregation Mishkan Sholom" for a total of $600,000 and it was based on a 10% promisory note and a 1,000,000 shares. They'll have an uphill battle to secure more capital, but the climate for such fundraising is getting better.
I'm not defending venture funded enterprise, I'm part of GG partly because this isn't the way we have chosen to capitalize, so don't think I believe that adding cash will build a success.
We talk about a lot of things around the Garage - All I will say is we actually speculate more about MoM (in a positive way) than the Phantom.
#19
I still subscribe to the "Build it and they will come..." way of thinking... I think GarageGames is proof of this... It's amazing what's possible when your heart is in the right place...
11/24/2004 (9:12 pm)
Hah... MoM is a the most wonderfully horrible experience I have ever had... I speculate about it quite a bit myself ;)I still subscribe to the "Build it and they will come..." way of thinking... I think GarageGames is proof of this... It's amazing what's possible when your heart is in the right place...
#20
11/24/2004 (9:47 pm)
If you go to the phantoms web site and look under developers signed on, you will see some names you may know.... 
Torque 3D Owner Gareth Davies
If someone sold a PC/Console/DVD-(R)/Mp3/Tivo combined box, and then sorted out a strong content delivery system, there is definitly a market. Easily justifying a $300 price point.
Will the "phantom" actually achieve any of this. I very much doubt it. I've been following it quite closly, and it feels like hot air all the way. :(