Indie or Death

#1 I wasn't in the games industry as long as Jeff Tunnell & many others here, but I was there long enough (6 years) to come face-to-face with "market realities" that govern the industry.

My dream is to have a small, tight studio that consistently puts out solid titles fairly cheaply... cheaply enough that making enough profit to sustain halfway decent salaries isn't like entering the lottery. The whole "hit-driven" strategy of the mainstream games industry never did make sense to me... you either win big, or lose big. Most lose big. Or you win for a while before losing.

Maybe someone with a firmer grasp of economics could explain it to me. But to me, it just doesn't make much sense. It seems that there's got to be a better way, if you aren't trying to "get rich quick."

#2 Joshua Ritter

Quote:If it's your dream to work on AAA titles, plan on bouncing around and being sucked dry.

It used to be, but not anymore.

Jay Barnson

Quote:My dream is to have a small, tight studio that consistently puts out solid titles fairly cheaply... cheaply enough that making enough profit to sustain halfway decent salaries isn't like entering the lottery.

Sounds good to me!


~sj

#3 I believe "hit or miss" approach is weaved deep into entertainment industry itself. No other industry follows so crazy rules, I think.
The fact is, it helps indies actually, no matter how sad it may sound. Such approach leave *very* much niches and gaps unfilled, and its up to indy to exploit them.

But the main reason (I think) is the fact, that suits know so little about industry they work in. They know finances, marketing etc. but they know very little about actual market, apart from statistics sheets.

It the same paradox as with journalism. Having degree in journalism is not enough to start writing editorials on business. You actually have to have degree in finances as well. Thats why we're swamped with "journalists" who may know how to structure story, but can not fill the content glass.

Yet another reason - western business thinking unfortunately does not focus on long term prospects. Its all about quick and easy money. What is the furthest real business plan for company? three years? five years?

#4 Its painful to see a title that is so worthy like Fallout3 shelved like that. 1 and 2 were great. They almost had an Indie grittiness to them- they certainly didn't fit the mainstream as far as RPGs are concerned. Didn't they win awards and RPG of the year?

Most of what Krauze says is true. But have you looked at Indies and how they try to do the marketing themselves? Its basically the exact inverse. We may look at marketing as the "easy" part, but I can say for certain that isn't true. Most devs don't even have basic business skills, much less in-depth knowledge. So its no wonder that a game is only selling 10 copies a day in a world where there are hundreds of millions of high-end PCs.

#5 Randall, you are right, indies usually screw up the business side bad, just using different approach then "big suits" :}

However, "ten copies a day" syndrome (hey, ten isnt that bad for couple of guys part-time:) comes from the lack of channels actually. There is a limit of visitors indy dev website can attract. Indy market is highly fragmented, which plays into hands of "biggies".

Other thing is indy games themselves. Lets not kid ourselves, many of them lack some key element, be it art, or correct coding or support. there are many forgotten games out there, which could have made it, but lacked one of these. But thats another discussion :)

#6 The "big studio" game industry is modeled directly after the "big studio" movie industry, same mentality because there are lots of the same owners at the "money" level of decision making.

#7

Quote:There is a limit of visitors indy dev website can attract. Indy market is highly fragmented,

This is the direct result of lack of marketing skill. The extent of most indie advertising boils down to purchasing a couple banner ads and registering with Yahoo! search engine. Thats not nearly enough.

Snails was and still is a huge hit in the mobile market 2 years and running (the game I co-created can be seen at snailsgame.com and devastation3.com/randall ). We are still among the top selling games and hit the "glass ceiling" several times. Basically, we maximised our sales to the point that we couldn't go any further until the rest of the industry expanded.

We sure as hell didn't accomplish this ourselves, and didn't depend on the game to drive itself to the top. Our game wasn't even an original idea. The PEOPLE kept begging for "Worms World Party" to appear on the mobile platform. So we created a loosely-based clone called Snails to fill that niche.

1.5 years later, "Worms World Party" appeared on our targeted platform (PocketPC). We are still outselling them by a wide margin, and even the reviews blatantly state that Snails is superior in many categories. We are still considered a flagship title.

#8 Randall - without compromising any of your "secret marketing weapons," what are you folks doing that makes the difference between you and Joe Average Indie?

#9 @Randall: Your post makes the spirit soar... rock on rebel warrior!

#10

Quote:Randall - without compromising any of your "secret marketing weapons," what are you folks doing that makes the difference between you and Joe Average Indie?

This site hasn't been officially announced, and its still under construction, but this company was the one that promoted Snails: planetschnoogie.com . Feel free to contact them for more information.

They also promote a couple bands including "Poets and Pornstars". Maybe you have heard of at least ONE person in the band "Becky!":
Rebecca Lord -vocals (TV Actor, the Real World)
Paulie Kosta -guitar (Hockey Goalie)
Keanu Reeves - bass (Movie Actor)
Rob Mailhouse- drums (Movie/TV Actor, CSI, Seinfeld)

I'd like to point out that we don't have any secret marketing weapons. I'll fully disclose whatever you want to know, unless I am under NDA and allowed. And its not just that we are doing things differently than Joe Average Indie, we are doing things differently than the entire industry and the Big Dogs.

There isn't a single big-name publisher that is outselling us, and there are some pretty big ones out there. Maybe you have heard of these folks: Microsoft, Sony, UbiSoft, ZioSoft. Yes, we are ahead of them all.

Also, our philosophy is simple. The industry can't grow until everyone is on the same page, aiming for a common goal. For us, as Indies, this means that we will HELP our fellow Indies and competitors achieve success. Sounds crazy? Yes, it is. But I guarantee if you rise to the top and break that glass ceiling, I will be right on your ass all the way. This is similar to "Drafting" in NASCAR.

DRAFTING: Drafting Strategy plays a huge part in NASCAR racing, and drafting is a major component in every driver's strategic planning for each race. Drafting consists of driving in another car's wake to gain and aerodynamic advantage. While drafting, you conserve fuel and power because you can afford to ease off the accelerator a little. When you're ready to pass the lead car, hit the gas and pull out of the draftyou'll slingshot right past!

Once again, if you sell more, I sell more.

One thing that we did early on that most other Indies overlooked was a dedicated Marketing Person. Most Indies are so concerned about losing a couple percentage points, that they just refuse to pay one more person. Lemme throw some numbers at you.

You have 3 developers and evenly divide the profits. You have 100 sales in the month of august at $20 a pop. And you worked your ass off to achieve those sales. Maybe you even spent some money on banner ads.

(100 * 20) / 3 = 666.66
So each developer earned $666.66

Lets throw in an additional Marketing person and assume they bring in 50% more sales.

(150 * 20) / 4 = 750
So each developer earns $750

Which number looks better to you? Keep in mind that a 50% increase is actually pretty small- I have seen increases that are MUCH more than that. Depending on the marketing person and your personal goals, those percentages will fluctuate. PLUS you didn't have to lift a finger, leaving you more time to do what you do best (develop games).

...(to be continued)

#11 Another thing we did to throw the Industry for a loop, we adjusted our prices. Most games were selling for $29. We decided that was far too high, we wouldn't pay that amount even for our OWN game. So we dropped the price to $12. We instantly had hundreds of sales the first day. Now common-business sense tells us the higher the price, the less sales you'll see. But you need to find that sweet spot. Set your price too low, and you actually start LOSING money. Lemme throw more numbers at you.

A price of $20 nets you 100 sales a month. Thats $2000.

If you drop your price to $10, you must sell twice as many copies to hit $2000. In our experience, that is definately attainable. The more copies you have out there, the more buzz there is. People start talking and word of mouth is possibly the best marketing there is.

In accuality, the higher your price, the more severe the drop in sales. Its not linear at all. It ends up looking something like this:

$10 500 sales
$15 200 sales
$20 100 sales
$25 50 sales

Also, we have GIVEN AWAY more copies than most other games have SOLD. We don't give free copies to just reviewers or important people. We give them away as prizes (we recently gave away a couple copies as a PocketGamer.org promotion for Christmas). We give them away at conferences (200 copies were given away at the PocketPC Summit last year). Giving away copies costs you nothing, yet developers act like they are hoarding gold when it comes to this. You want your game sold, GET IT OUT THERE. Consider the marketing we got by giving away 2 copies on the most prominant and popular PocketPC Gaming site in the world. You can't buy that kind of publicity.

We are also very active with our fans. We aren't "elusive", we aren't "mysterious" and we aren't too "snooty" to talk to them. We give them the time of day if they ask. We argue with them on the message boards. We aren't afraid to let the world know we are normal people.

Even with some of these "tricks", it still pays to have a dedicated marketing person to pull them off effectively. We have many deals pending with companies like ATI Technologies Inc. ( ati.com ) and Hewlette Packard ( hp.com ). In fact, we have so much on our plates we are scrambling to accomodate them.

I am terribly sorry this post is so long, and the unfortunate thing is that it will be buried and never seen in a matter of days.

#12

Quote:I am terribly sorry this post is so long, and the unfortunate thing is that it will be buried and never seen in a matter of days.

Not if I can help it. And don't apologize. This sort of information and advice is worth GOLD. Literally.

#13 I smell a resource brewing ;) That was fantastic, thanks a lot Randall

#14 I too found that quite interesting. I just recently turned indie after 6 years of developing commercial games. Having finished our first title, we are looking for ways to get our game seen.

#15 Definetly an excellent read, thanks Randall.

#16 Good and tasty stuff Randall. Yes, marketing is badly overlooked by most indies. Could be caused by fact that most indies are actually just one person in attic and not exactly a team or company.
Good to hear also that "stand-alone marketing person" can make a difference. I wouldnt mind additional person in team if he/she can make profits.
This is actually a problem too. I personally havent met promising marketing specialist online. If there is an ad (whether on GG or somewhere else), most of the time, its a joke, from the same category of people who think in lines " i dont know anything about game design/marketing/writing but it must be pretty easy and I learn fast".

Maybe I'm simply living in other cyrcles and all the marketing people have their own secret online bases or something.

Actually, I personally would be more comfortable with the idea of outfarming marketing aspect to small yet able company with a good record. Like the one you posted link for (thanks, btw:)

#17 A one person team is even a better candidate for a teaming up with a designated marketing person. If there are 4 team members, they can divide the duties. A one man show is... well a one man show, and all duties fall on them.

I was going to save this stuff in case this thread ever "fell off", but since we have the ball rolling...

Some Indies are concerned that maybe their work isn't good enough. A slow launch with minimal sales is certainly a discouraging blow. I've seen many teams break up because of this, and its heartbreaking. What makes it even worse, is they lose the confidence to contact someone for help. If they do, the Marketing Person is usually somebody's friend or girlfriend with no experience.

Well, consider that these Marketing Professionals actually went to school to learn their craft. They know the psychology. They get those difficult questions answered. They know how to get INTO a company. They know how to negotiate and most importantly CLOSE THE DEAL. For the most part, it IS true that a marketing person can jump from industry to industry successfully, just as many of you can go from coding a Graphics App to coding a 3D Game Engine.

However, planetschnoogie.com has been doing online marketing for nearly 10 years, and dedicated to games for the last 2. They purposely stay small so that they can focus on key clients and maintain that "indie" feeling. Now they support all indies across many different industries, because many of them face the same struggles. And they give far more money back to the indie than any other, because they KNOW the struggles first hand.

An important note: it takes a couple months for the Marketing to kick in. Its not something that happens over night, regardless how hard everyone tries. So you need to start your campaign months before the game even launches (for evidence of this, how long in advance did we see posters for games like Warcraft3) Its called "hype". Oh yes, we all know this word well and it can be a double-edged sword if overdone (The HULK?). Even if you already have a game out there, you can team up with a marketing person to discuss your goals and needs, your sales performance so far, what has worked and what hasn't, etc.

If you want to see results immediately, its probably too late. You should have thought about that months ago. What will you be saying 2 months from now?

Partnering with a marketing person will also help you organise, to promote your game to OEMs or publishers if you choose to go that route. We have turned down all Publisher offers, because we like being "indies", and we like owning our Intellectual Property.

I'm one of those people that don't really care about someone blathering, they can claim to be this or that all they want. But the numbers can't lie. SHOW ME NUMBERS!

If you want to see evidence of Snails current performance, look at handango.com. Handango is the single largest retailer for mobile games. They are the 10th fastest growing company in the State of Texas. So these positions are pretty accurate on a worldwide scale, and they shift daily. Unlike some sites, these positions have nothing to do with OVERALL sales, these are related to DAILY sales. So a brand new game can come in, kick ass and take the #1 spot.

Right now, Snails is #5. But you'll also notice that PDAmill has 5 games in the top 10. This is an example of "drafting". Most of PDAmills titles play leapfrog as they jockey for position, and they help sell each other. Snails was our first successful title (I don't work for PDAMill, I just created the artwork and retain the copyright). However, Drafting isn't restricted to just one companies titles, you can use a competitors title to Draft, especially if they are in the same genre.

The release of "Worms World Party" actually INCREASED our sales.

#18 I Would agree with Randall... But I would even go as far as saying more then just 2 or 3 months... I think the key to "Indie" success is truely the pre-market... the hype because when your thrown into a world were a lot of the time these games are compared to larger company games... you really have to play your title out. I mean warcraft 3 took something like 5+ years to make and I think every one of those years they ran some sorta PR thing to grab the people.

I also think the issue with most "indies" is basic economics... Which is something that we all dread when we think about it.. Further up Randall posted about the price effecting the sales. IF you look at that from an economical stand point well no DUH the cheaper the price the more sales you will have... its economical to the consumer. The issue I would argue there is unless you have a well strut company... such as "Team17" were you have had title s and you have the ability to do that... that is almost not reasonable or economical for indies. I think we would see a lot more from indies if they just applied basic economic principles.

I just think that maybe if people were more practical in there sales and what they are selling... I don't think you would always have to have the marketing person on all the time. I mean if you just applied simple rational ideas that are very basic. I mean reading over what randall has said... its almost like you sit back and go DUH :P

#19 Andrew, "lower the price, to rise the volume" principle is not really true. It is not really true in most industries, actually.
It has been debated here, but the main idea is - there is some point where customer gets the feeling that product offered for such a low price must be inferior.
It seems that "Snails" have found the optimal point in the price range, however, dont forget that it is pocketPC market with slightly different rules.
PC games have different optimal price points, also, the genre of your game means much.

I personally think that for indy game $15-20price range is average optimal. Basically, it sends the message: "its a good game for a bargain price!"
also, do not forget that most customers percieve Internet as the place where goods can be bought cheaper.
But once you fall out of optimal range, your 7 dollar price sends a message: "we made something up, it kinda works, nothing to write home about, we are desperate."

Now, if you had base price of 15 dollars and made a discount of five dollars for a week, customers would see it differently again.

#20 Well yeah, alot of it IS common sense, especially if you studied business (I did). But in practice, its much more difficult. Many Indies in my industry STILL disagree with me. I have had disputes with one developer that insisted that he spent 2 years developing his game so he deserved to sell his game for $45. I am not kidding.

Before we launched Snails, we fully disclosed our marketing plan, and everyone laughed at us. Telling us we were ridiculous, and it was a model that couldn't possibly succeed. (I wish I could locate those forum threads). Possibly we were foolish, and idealistic, but we looked around the industry and didn't like what we saw. We wanted changes.

Apparently it worked. So although this may seem like common sense to some of us, others find it hard to swallow, even to this day with hard evidence to prove it.

There are still others in the industry that are trying to play catch-up with us, but they are bogged down for whatever reason (launching a game usually results in a massive amount of troubleshooting, updates, fixes, etc.) The marketing machines of those huge publishers still haven't figured out how to sell more games, and they have huge, dedicated marketing departments that have been selling games for YEARS. C'mon, you'd expect SEGA to be able to sell a couple games. But they are stuck in their old ways, and not as quick to respond as we are.

You don't NEED to retain a marketing person fulltime, only in the beginning. They get the deals, boost sales, analyze and target the markets and then everyone can sit back and reap the benefits. Only when things start slacking off a little, the marketing kicks back in. Its kind of like a freight train. It takes a while to get rolling, but once it does, it takes far less energy to maintain that speed and damn near impossible to stop. Planet Schnoogie takes a small percentage of our sales. I am not sure what their policy is now, or in the future. We are grandfathered in, so it will never change for us.

Snails took 4 months to develop. 2 years later, we are still doing well. Its been updated several times, but I haven't made any changes to the graphics in well over a year (last time we added 3 new levels). Royalties kick ass!

Price drops are common in our industry. Right now, "Worms World Party" has a $10 discount for 10 days, bringing it down to $14. They'll see an increase in sales and may hit the top-10. But this is how the industry works for us, especially when their sales are so low (they aren't even in the top 35, which probably means they are getting maybe a sale a day).