I need advice
by Chris "Had Chris First" · in General Discussion · 11/04/2003 (5:25 pm) · 10 replies
Im losing intrest in games, and game development, not because I want to, but there just doesnt seem to be any new ideas, no revolutionary game that with reafirm my faith in the industry. I just need someone to tell me that there will be something great on the horizon, I *WANT* to love gameing with all my heart, but there just isnt enough. Someone please help.
On the side of game-development, I've wanted to develop games for many years, and Im not one of those people who asks the very bland question of , "how do I make games?" But I could never seem to self teach myself anything, from 3dsmax to C++, I really want to participate in the making of a game, but I need alot of help.
I have probably $100's of dollars in books that I thought would help, but it didnt work.
If you can help, or have any advice, I'd really appreciate it.
On the side of game-development, I've wanted to develop games for many years, and Im not one of those people who asks the very bland question of , "how do I make games?" But I could never seem to self teach myself anything, from 3dsmax to C++, I really want to participate in the making of a game, but I need alot of help.
I have probably $100's of dollars in books that I thought would help, but it didnt work.
If you can help, or have any advice, I'd really appreciate it.
About the author
#2
11/04/2003 (6:21 pm)
Well said. :) 
#3
All games are much the same, just with a different view point etc.
Personaly, I spend most of my time with games like Wolfenstein 3D, something about it made it more scary then Doom and later games etc.
Because it wasn't trying to be realistic like the newer versions etc, which make alot of mistakes because they don't know much about firearms etc. Which disapoints it to me.
But because no "new" games are been made, should make you not want to be involved, because to make it have that "new" feel is some what up to you.
You could look in to design etc?
11/04/2003 (7:42 pm)
That was well said.All games are much the same, just with a different view point etc.
Personaly, I spend most of my time with games like Wolfenstein 3D, something about it made it more scary then Doom and later games etc.
Because it wasn't trying to be realistic like the newer versions etc, which make alot of mistakes because they don't know much about firearms etc. Which disapoints it to me.
But because no "new" games are been made, should make you not want to be involved, because to make it have that "new" feel is some what up to you.
You could look in to design etc?
#4
@Chris-I too have been struggling with learning the "art" of game development. I also have a stack of books on programming and modeling. For a loooooooooong time I sat home wanting to make a game, but really didn't take the time to actually do anything. Then I realized that this is a medium full of other aspiring game developers. And everyone had to start somewhere (even all the intelligent gentlemen here), so instead of sitting home all day dreaming of designing......I got my butt off the couch and got to work! I began to work, day and night I made myself learn. As a wise man (or women) once said, the best way to learn something is by doing it. Practice, practice, practice! Its the best way to learn anything. I know at first its hard, you just have to be persistent. There are many people here who will give you a helping hand if needed. So dont be afraid of asking "what does this do?" or "why do you have to do this?". Believe me, I asked all those questions when I began. And luckly for me, I found others who were nice enough to help me out. Well, I gtg........hope what I said inspired you to get up and work, work, work. Well, have a nice day..........and i'll check back here to see if you have anymore questions. Later.....
John O'Mahony
11/04/2003 (8:26 pm)
Nicely put N R Bharathae:D@Chris-I too have been struggling with learning the "art" of game development. I also have a stack of books on programming and modeling. For a loooooooooong time I sat home wanting to make a game, but really didn't take the time to actually do anything. Then I realized that this is a medium full of other aspiring game developers. And everyone had to start somewhere (even all the intelligent gentlemen here), so instead of sitting home all day dreaming of designing......I got my butt off the couch and got to work! I began to work, day and night I made myself learn. As a wise man (or women) once said, the best way to learn something is by doing it. Practice, practice, practice! Its the best way to learn anything. I know at first its hard, you just have to be persistent. There are many people here who will give you a helping hand if needed. So dont be afraid of asking "what does this do?" or "why do you have to do this?". Believe me, I asked all those questions when I began. And luckly for me, I found others who were nice enough to help me out. Well, I gtg........hope what I said inspired you to get up and work, work, work. Well, have a nice day..........and i'll check back here to see if you have anymore questions. Later.....
John O'Mahony
#5
Think of it as atoms. We dont usually find new elements, but look at what was built out of the ones we have now! ie, everything. And there is still infinite combinations that we havent even dreamed of. Its the same with games. The first few years were really the 'finding the elements' age. It was when people were finding the building nlocks of intereactive entertainment. We have found them now, go build with them! :D
As for learning to make games, Id suggest learning C++ (if your a coder or milkshape or another modelling program if not). I know its not easy, and I didnt get it until I started using it. Its a funny thing, you cant use it until you have used it :S. Read other peoples code, it really just clicked for me and I learnt a LOT just reading through the Quake 3 source (the mod source that is). Its probably similar for the Halflife one.
Make a mod, even a really simple one, like a new weaon or gametype, this is where games like quake3 and tribes are cool. If you have Torque, then start modding.
read as much about your area os possible, but dont just read, think of ways of using what you learn in a game. Then try it out. Get a bag of tricks that you can use (metaphorically ;) ).
I hope you dont quit, because making games is the most rewarding thing I have done (admittedly, I havent done much else :D).
Dylan Sale
11/04/2003 (10:38 pm)
Deus Ex 2 is looking pretty origional. Although I guess you could argue that other games have done different parts of it before, it is the first one that has brought all those parts together in the way that they have. I think that is what origionality is in games. You have the base units of gameplay that generally dont change, but its the way you put them together that is unique to each individual game. Think of it as atoms. We dont usually find new elements, but look at what was built out of the ones we have now! ie, everything. And there is still infinite combinations that we havent even dreamed of. Its the same with games. The first few years were really the 'finding the elements' age. It was when people were finding the building nlocks of intereactive entertainment. We have found them now, go build with them! :D
As for learning to make games, Id suggest learning C++ (if your a coder or milkshape or another modelling program if not). I know its not easy, and I didnt get it until I started using it. Its a funny thing, you cant use it until you have used it :S. Read other peoples code, it really just clicked for me and I learnt a LOT just reading through the Quake 3 source (the mod source that is). Its probably similar for the Halflife one.
Make a mod, even a really simple one, like a new weaon or gametype, this is where games like quake3 and tribes are cool. If you have Torque, then start modding.
read as much about your area os possible, but dont just read, think of ways of using what you learn in a game. Then try it out. Get a bag of tricks that you can use (metaphorically ;) ).
I hope you dont quit, because making games is the most rewarding thing I have done (admittedly, I havent done much else :D).
Dylan Sale
#6
11/04/2003 (11:01 pm)
Search out other dev tools to assist you. You don't have to use 3DS Max and C++ to make a game. You should start somewhere else as both of those tools are quite a bit to take on just to make a game and both can be used to do much more than make games which adds a lot to their complexity. 
#7
I'm a 'hands-on' kinda guy, and so I learn a LOT more from doing than by just studying. The best way for me to learn is to start small - something small, "easy," and completable. I can't stress enough the importance of being able to COMPLETE the thing - to whatever point you feel you have reached 'completion.' There are a LOT of things you'll learn doing bug-fixing, clean-up and polish that will be valuable to you for years to come.
Start with something like tic-tac-toe, or "guess the animal," or the Towers of Hanoi puzzle. You can use ASCII graphics to start, or use simple graphics. That will teach you the basics of things as a programmer. Make it turn-based so you don't need to worry about real-time coding. Then work your way up to something a little more complex, or with a little more graphics, like checkers or a simplified "scorched-earth" style artillery game. By the time you are done, you'll have the basics of programming, certain data structures, AI, player input, and graphics (and maybe sound) down.
After that, keep learning more and writing more to learn at your own pace. But the important thing is to sit down and *DO* it. You are probably going to be spending more time looking things up in a reference book or online while you are learning - that will change a little over time, but you will always be learning new tricks, techniques, or figuring out your way through the newest version of an API.
I've been trying the same technique with modeling, myself. There's a lot to be learned by reading up on "how to's" online - but NOTHING can replace practice.
11/05/2003 (8:08 am)
My advice:I'm a 'hands-on' kinda guy, and so I learn a LOT more from doing than by just studying. The best way for me to learn is to start small - something small, "easy," and completable. I can't stress enough the importance of being able to COMPLETE the thing - to whatever point you feel you have reached 'completion.' There are a LOT of things you'll learn doing bug-fixing, clean-up and polish that will be valuable to you for years to come.
Start with something like tic-tac-toe, or "guess the animal," or the Towers of Hanoi puzzle. You can use ASCII graphics to start, or use simple graphics. That will teach you the basics of things as a programmer. Make it turn-based so you don't need to worry about real-time coding. Then work your way up to something a little more complex, or with a little more graphics, like checkers or a simplified "scorched-earth" style artillery game. By the time you are done, you'll have the basics of programming, certain data structures, AI, player input, and graphics (and maybe sound) down.
After that, keep learning more and writing more to learn at your own pace. But the important thing is to sit down and *DO* it. You are probably going to be spending more time looking things up in a reference book or online while you are learning - that will change a little over time, but you will always be learning new tricks, techniques, or figuring out your way through the newest version of an API.
I've been trying the same technique with modeling, myself. There's a lot to be learned by reading up on "how to's" online - but NOTHING can replace practice.
#8
11/05/2003 (8:11 am)
It's really quite simple for me... If I don't kick ass, I have to get a suck ass job. Once I realized this, the rest came easy.
#9
11/05/2003 (9:37 pm)
Thanks for your help guys, but I need to find hope somewhere, and I think that taking your advice, and just doing it will give me that hope, that glimmer in my eye that I want back.
#10
Ha that's great. So true too. :) Hopefully I'll never see you cashiering at the local grocery store, Joshua.
11/06/2003 (4:57 pm)
Quote:If I don't kick ass, I have to get a suck ass job.
Ha that's great. So true too. :) Hopefully I'll never see you cashiering at the local grocery store, Joshua.
Torque Owner N R Bharathae
My other suggestion is if you're not willing to dig in and get your hands dirty by learning to do at least some aspect of game making you might be barking up the wrong tree. You won't be much use to a dev team if all you know how to do is tell somebody they're wrong about something they're doing.
From my own point of view game making is the most labor intensive creative endeavor I've ever attempted. I've written short-stories, made a comic and written an RPG game ruleset. And I still can't tell you why I'm hanging around Torque projects except to say its probably the coolest thing I could be doing right now.
What draws me to game making is the ability to interact with the game environment and affect the game outcome rather than be the passive observer. That in itself, to me, is greater than just telling a story. With video games I can tell a story AND allow the player to interact with the characters/world I've created. But if you're looking for a more original way of doing this I refer you to the start of this post:)