Considering doing some handheld development
by Ben Swanson · in General Discussion · 10/18/2003 (11:43 am) · 11 replies
I'm experienced in developing on Windows and Linux pltforms, recently I've become somewhat interested in doing some development for handhelds (looking primarily at PDAs and cell phones here, not particularly intereted in trying to compete on a games-only platform a la gameboy). So what I would like is perhaps just some general advice people that experienced handheld developers might be willing to throw at some guy looking to make the transition. Recommended platforms/devices, languages, APIs, tools, websites, publishers? Any general/random tips? Thanks.
#2
I would suggest developing for Palm (forget OS4, develop for the more powerful Tungsten), PocketPC, MS Smartphone, Symbian... and maybe mobile Linux. I happen to know quite a bit about what is going on as far as new technology, but I am under NDA and can't discuss it openly.
Right now, we are achieving first-generation Playstation quality graphics on mobile devices, with full 3D at a playable framerate. But the industry is all over the place, and the independent developers basically own the industry right now. The big publishers can't get their foothold, simply because they sales are not significant enough for them to turn a profit, so Zio!, UbiSoft and Sega a basically floundering right now. But they have much deeper pockets.
Our award-winning game is outselling the mobile versions of Age of Empires, Sim City, Rayman, Tomb Raider, Everquest, Microsoft Entertainment Pack, etc.
Recently, we have ported the game to Smartphone (I think we won an award for that as well) and Mobile Linux. We will be launching on PC in the coming weeks and possibly Palm Tungsten. ALL of these ports are multiplayer, and players can play against each other online, REGARDLESS OF PLATFORM. We were among the first games on the PocketPC to feature muitplayer via TCP/IP.
Currently, PocketPC and Palm will result in the biggest sales. I can't give you exact numbers, but on the PocketPC platform alone you can sell 10-30 games a day at Handango.com (ours are actually higher). If you sell at numerous sites, your numbers will climb only slightly- but more importantly you have more exposure.
Now that I have blabbered enough, I will tell you that I am one of the creators and the animator/artist of Snails ( snailsgame.com ). Right now, we are the #2 selling PocketPC game in the world. 4 of the top-ten games are PDAMill products (PDAMill is an indie, and provided the game engine for Snails).
I am a fulltime indie developer, and this has been my sole job for over 2 years. Its been great.
10/18/2003 (12:50 pm)
Hmmm, I actually work in this industy. I may get flamed for some of this, but Brew and J2ME sucks ass in a big way. I think if you are used to working in Linux and Windows, those mobile platforms will drive you nuts with their limitations. I also don't forsee them as a significant player in the future.I would suggest developing for Palm (forget OS4, develop for the more powerful Tungsten), PocketPC, MS Smartphone, Symbian... and maybe mobile Linux. I happen to know quite a bit about what is going on as far as new technology, but I am under NDA and can't discuss it openly.
Right now, we are achieving first-generation Playstation quality graphics on mobile devices, with full 3D at a playable framerate. But the industry is all over the place, and the independent developers basically own the industry right now. The big publishers can't get their foothold, simply because they sales are not significant enough for them to turn a profit, so Zio!, UbiSoft and Sega a basically floundering right now. But they have much deeper pockets.
Our award-winning game is outselling the mobile versions of Age of Empires, Sim City, Rayman, Tomb Raider, Everquest, Microsoft Entertainment Pack, etc.
Recently, we have ported the game to Smartphone (I think we won an award for that as well) and Mobile Linux. We will be launching on PC in the coming weeks and possibly Palm Tungsten. ALL of these ports are multiplayer, and players can play against each other online, REGARDLESS OF PLATFORM. We were among the first games on the PocketPC to feature muitplayer via TCP/IP.
Currently, PocketPC and Palm will result in the biggest sales. I can't give you exact numbers, but on the PocketPC platform alone you can sell 10-30 games a day at Handango.com (ours are actually higher). If you sell at numerous sites, your numbers will climb only slightly- but more importantly you have more exposure.
Now that I have blabbered enough, I will tell you that I am one of the creators and the animator/artist of Snails ( snailsgame.com ). Right now, we are the #2 selling PocketPC game in the world. 4 of the top-ten games are PDAMill products (PDAMill is an indie, and provided the game engine for Snails).
I am a fulltime indie developer, and this has been my sole job for over 2 years. Its been great.
#3
10/18/2003 (1:03 pm)
Thanks a lot guys, I feel like I've got a bit of direction now.
#4
10/18/2003 (2:39 pm)
Hehe like I say I've only done graphics for a few for a company that makes them. Randall obviously has the full low-down. :)
#5
10/19/2003 (5:58 pm)
Randall, thanks! That sort of info is hugely helpful. And the personal keynotes are a great inspiration to those folks trying to get where you are now. ;)
#6
Handango is where we saw our biggest sales. We got some on clickgamer as well but got none on any other PDA website. So results do vary :)
I do have a question for you Randall. Do you own all of the devices you develop for or have you been able to do it straight from emulators. That has been our biggest problem so far as each device is around 500 bucks.
Also do you see multiplayer being a big factor in it? If you can tell me, what have you seen as the best way to get the product in front of people? We sent in reviews and posted news on a lot of pocket PC sites but never really saw a lot.
-Tim aka Spock
10/20/2003 (5:45 pm)
Don't expect Randall's type of numbers though, he has a real hit on his hands. I wish I could sell half that many a day on Handango.. Our games are not selling near that. Our games are Jack the Uni-Psychle and Decoder. Both can be seen here - http://www.discordstudios.com Handango is where we saw our biggest sales. We got some on clickgamer as well but got none on any other PDA website. So results do vary :)
I do have a question for you Randall. Do you own all of the devices you develop for or have you been able to do it straight from emulators. That has been our biggest problem so far as each device is around 500 bucks.
Also do you see multiplayer being a big factor in it? If you can tell me, what have you seen as the best way to get the product in front of people? We sent in reviews and posted news on a lot of pocket PC sites but never really saw a lot.
-Tim aka Spock
#7
Handango is the leading estore for PDA software, so your sales should be significantly larger there. In fact, they easily dwarf all other sites by 800%. While we are speaking on the topic of Handango, I have heard that some devs are paying upwards of 40% for the "Gold Plan". We are paying nowhere near that, and I find that kind of pricing to be absurd, considering how very little (and poorly done) marketing they actually do.
We own all of our devices- and we try to have devices that represent a profile of the Industry as a whole, rather than trying to buy the "best" devices. In certain cases, we were able to borrow devices from the OEM. Or they will fly the developers out to the Lab. This is especially true for Cell Phone OEMs that use a lab environment to test across a secured and monitored network. Hopefully in the future, they will simply give them to us, as we are able to use these devices in the real world and determine show-stopping problems before they are mass produced. (For those that don't know, the PDA market has been plagued with shoddy manufacturing, faulty hardware, bad design and inadequate testing in the real world)
We don't even develop games for Mips and SH3 devices anymore- they lost the hardware battle, and their sales are insignificant. This allows us to focus on ARM and Xscale (same ARM architecture for both).
If the number of players online are any indication, multiplayer online is not a big factor in sales, although it may add to the "coolness factor". However our intent of adding multiplayer was not to gain more sales. It was a scheme to get the OEMs and Industry to acknowledge that multiplayer is ineviteable, and its coming... so they better be ready. This has gotten us alot of attention by many huge players in the industry, especially cell phone heavyweights Orange (MS Smartphone in Europe), Nokia and Qualcomm.
There are very few people that play multiplayer online- we hope the addition of Snails Multiplayer for PC will bring a whole lot of people to the arena. Like I stated before, all versions of the game are compatible with each other, so even though you could be playing the PC version, your opponent could very well be on a Phone or PocketPC. Supposedly, Snails Multiplayer for PC is going to be "free of charge", which should generate at least a few extra players online.
Snails also includes a Multiplayer mode which allows two people to share a single device. Being a turn-based game, we proved this genre can survive perfectly well in a high-tech world of realtime gaming. In fact, this may be the mode that is most-used, especially by students.
Which brings me to the next point. We have given away thousands of free copies of Snails. Not just to reviewers or "important people", but to the average Joe and fellow developers. Some devs will think we are crazy, because they don't even sell as many copies as we have given away. But it certainly hasn't hurt us- we are obviously still a top-selling game for nearly 2 years now. Basically we treat these freebies as "marketing", and any time a website is holding a contest we try to be there with free games. The PocketPC Summit was another place that we mass-distributed free games on CDROM through PocketMatrix.
If I remember correctly, the PocketPC Summit is going on in conjunction with CTIA in Las Vegas this week. This is the 3rd year Snails will appear for FREE on the PocketMatrix CDROM, which is distributed by PocketPC Magazine this year.
(continued....)
10/20/2003 (8:06 pm)
HEY, I didn't know you created Jack the Uni-Psychle (very cool sidescroller).Handango is the leading estore for PDA software, so your sales should be significantly larger there. In fact, they easily dwarf all other sites by 800%. While we are speaking on the topic of Handango, I have heard that some devs are paying upwards of 40% for the "Gold Plan". We are paying nowhere near that, and I find that kind of pricing to be absurd, considering how very little (and poorly done) marketing they actually do.
We own all of our devices- and we try to have devices that represent a profile of the Industry as a whole, rather than trying to buy the "best" devices. In certain cases, we were able to borrow devices from the OEM. Or they will fly the developers out to the Lab. This is especially true for Cell Phone OEMs that use a lab environment to test across a secured and monitored network. Hopefully in the future, they will simply give them to us, as we are able to use these devices in the real world and determine show-stopping problems before they are mass produced. (For those that don't know, the PDA market has been plagued with shoddy manufacturing, faulty hardware, bad design and inadequate testing in the real world)
We don't even develop games for Mips and SH3 devices anymore- they lost the hardware battle, and their sales are insignificant. This allows us to focus on ARM and Xscale (same ARM architecture for both).
If the number of players online are any indication, multiplayer online is not a big factor in sales, although it may add to the "coolness factor". However our intent of adding multiplayer was not to gain more sales. It was a scheme to get the OEMs and Industry to acknowledge that multiplayer is ineviteable, and its coming... so they better be ready. This has gotten us alot of attention by many huge players in the industry, especially cell phone heavyweights Orange (MS Smartphone in Europe), Nokia and Qualcomm.
There are very few people that play multiplayer online- we hope the addition of Snails Multiplayer for PC will bring a whole lot of people to the arena. Like I stated before, all versions of the game are compatible with each other, so even though you could be playing the PC version, your opponent could very well be on a Phone or PocketPC. Supposedly, Snails Multiplayer for PC is going to be "free of charge", which should generate at least a few extra players online.
Snails also includes a Multiplayer mode which allows two people to share a single device. Being a turn-based game, we proved this genre can survive perfectly well in a high-tech world of realtime gaming. In fact, this may be the mode that is most-used, especially by students.
Which brings me to the next point. We have given away thousands of free copies of Snails. Not just to reviewers or "important people", but to the average Joe and fellow developers. Some devs will think we are crazy, because they don't even sell as many copies as we have given away. But it certainly hasn't hurt us- we are obviously still a top-selling game for nearly 2 years now. Basically we treat these freebies as "marketing", and any time a website is holding a contest we try to be there with free games. The PocketPC Summit was another place that we mass-distributed free games on CDROM through PocketMatrix.
If I remember correctly, the PocketPC Summit is going on in conjunction with CTIA in Las Vegas this week. This is the 3rd year Snails will appear for FREE on the PocketMatrix CDROM, which is distributed by PocketPC Magazine this year.
(continued....)
#8
Snails had a professional launch that included a veteran Marketing Person (my wife) so we were able to focus on updates and customer service, while the marketing person targeted the reveiwers, OEMs, etc. There are things we certainly could have done differently, and we learned from those mistakes. Now, Snails has become so big (it has hit a ceiling in the maximum sales a couple times) that we really don't have to do much to keep it afloat, simply because the original marketing was so well conceived that is keeps its own momentum.
I can't possibly include everything that has worked or hasn't worked for us. But one thing that I am a big believer of, is that players should be given an adequate demo of the game. We don't use a ton of nag screens (just one splash screen when they exit). The Demo is small, filesize-wise, which is important on a PDA with limited memory. There is no time limit or expiration date. The demo contains 2 levels, 2 different teams to play, and 10 of 25 weapons. There are numerous options available, so you can literally never play the same game twice, which amounts to alot of replay value within the demo itself. The way we see it, as long as the Demo remains on their device, whether its a month or a year, it is still doing marketing. Once that game is deleted from the device, our chances of grabbing that sale quickly dwindle.
I realize this is long-winded, and probably very boring. Sorry for that.
10/20/2003 (8:16 pm)
What you really need to do is get people to talk about the game, and NEVER stop talking about it. The release of Worms last month actually boosted our sales because the inevitable comparisons occured all over the Forums on numerous sites (Snails filled the original niche of a Worms/Scorched Earth-style game for PDA). We are still outselling Worms, but we don't know how long or IF it will last. Doesn't really matter to me, because we got our sales, and proved to the industry and big-business that indies can be successful. Fear Us :) .Snails had a professional launch that included a veteran Marketing Person (my wife) so we were able to focus on updates and customer service, while the marketing person targeted the reveiwers, OEMs, etc. There are things we certainly could have done differently, and we learned from those mistakes. Now, Snails has become so big (it has hit a ceiling in the maximum sales a couple times) that we really don't have to do much to keep it afloat, simply because the original marketing was so well conceived that is keeps its own momentum.
I can't possibly include everything that has worked or hasn't worked for us. But one thing that I am a big believer of, is that players should be given an adequate demo of the game. We don't use a ton of nag screens (just one splash screen when they exit). The Demo is small, filesize-wise, which is important on a PDA with limited memory. There is no time limit or expiration date. The demo contains 2 levels, 2 different teams to play, and 10 of 25 weapons. There are numerous options available, so you can literally never play the same game twice, which amounts to alot of replay value within the demo itself. The way we see it, as long as the Demo remains on their device, whether its a month or a year, it is still doing marketing. Once that game is deleted from the device, our chances of grabbing that sale quickly dwindle.
I realize this is long-winded, and probably very boring. Sorry for that.
#9
Well, I never _expect_ anything. I plan to earn everything I get. ;) Don't get me started on that topic, I'll derail this thread into a rant about people expecting success with no effort...! :)
Randall, it was not long winded, and please! "Bore" us ANY time you'd like.
10/20/2003 (9:14 pm)
"Don't expect Randall's type of numbers though"Well, I never _expect_ anything. I plan to earn everything I get. ;) Don't get me started on that topic, I'll derail this thread into a rant about people expecting success with no effort...! :)
Randall, it was not long winded, and please! "Bore" us ANY time you'd like.
#10
Kevin, don't let me discourage you, it is possible to do well with handheld devices (specially if you target multiple platforms) its just not easy. It's also good to see your wise enough to not expect it, as a lot of people are not.
-Tim aka Spock
10/21/2003 (8:29 am)
Thanks for answering my questions Randall. We may just not have had the marketting resources or maybe it was because we could only target pocket PC and Zaurus due to the lack of devices. I just checked today and saw that Gapidraw now works across symbian OS and soon to be palm, but I also noticed they are charging a fee for it now. Due to our poor sales I believe we are finished working on PDAs and we are now giving a try at PC development by starting out with porting both of our games (with enhancements since we will have the power) in hopes it will bring in enough money to survive on. It's good to see your having success in it and I hope it continues for you. Kevin, don't let me discourage you, it is possible to do well with handheld devices (specially if you target multiple platforms) its just not easy. It's also good to see your wise enough to not expect it, as a lot of people are not.
-Tim aka Spock
#11
This is the second year in a row that Snails won this award, for "Best Shooter 2003" for both PocketPC and Smartphone. We beat out such titles as PocketQuake (port of the original Quake by id Software) and PocketHexen. Which is kind of odd, because Snails is definately not an FPS.
Here is the complete list of nominees, finalists, and winners. These are the guys that you have to beat NEXT year in all genres and categories. So research your genre, and determine if you can do better (some categories could definately use some new entries)
http://www.pocketpcmag.com/awards/category.asp?catid=38#Shooting
10/23/2003 (3:08 pm)
We won two major awards from PocketPC Magazine, awarded last night at the PocketPC summit. For those that don't know, winning these awards is the equivelent of winning one of PCGamers awards in the PC industry (although the mobile industry is much smaller and not as hyped).This is the second year in a row that Snails won this award, for "Best Shooter 2003" for both PocketPC and Smartphone. We beat out such titles as PocketQuake (port of the original Quake by id Software) and PocketHexen. Which is kind of odd, because Snails is definately not an FPS.
Here is the complete list of nominees, finalists, and winners. These are the guys that you have to beat NEXT year in all genres and categories. So research your genre, and determine if you can do better (some categories could definately use some new entries)
http://www.pocketpcmag.com/awards/category.asp?catid=38#Shooting
Torque Owner Jak Fearon