Heavy Woes
by FilbertMM · in ThinkTanks · 10/17/2003 (4:26 pm) · 13 replies
How about bravtree does something to help out the heavy? When I was a demo, that is all I wanted--to play heavy. In reality, I only played a grand total of two minutes in it! Could it go A little faster? Maybe push all tank speeds up a notch in the new verion? Give the heavy less armor, and more fire power, and more speed. That is the ticket!
Also, when is the new version coming out? Any estimates Joe?
Also, when is the new version coming out? Any estimates Joe?
About the author
#2
more shots per clip less damage or
special heavy only default weapon
FP
10/17/2003 (8:49 pm)
The only prob with the heavy isnt the speed the only prob is the ammo 3 shots just wont cut it when you have lights with machine guns a few ideasmore shots per clip less damage or
special heavy only default weapon
FP
#3
10/18/2003 (1:42 am)
Just my 2 cents worth: One more shot per clip is all I want for the fat tank for Christmas.
#4
10/18/2003 (5:00 am)
Here's an idea: What if you could customise your tank stats? Have some sort of balences, e.g. pushing speed up will cause armor to go down and vice-versa.
#5
Game only had a solo "kill bots until you die" mode. But if you purchased their multi-player packs, you can have up to eight tanks in the vBattle field (only over a LAN that supported AppleTalk Phase II and IPX). 12 multi-player games that included team play games such as: "Arena (like Battlemode", "CTF", "Rallies", "IT", "Keep Away" and "BitBall (like Scrum)".
My favorite tank setting in Spectre Supreme was a heavily armored, maneuverable and fast "Spectre" with almost no ammo (30 shots).
Off subject I know. Sorry.
- Sam a.k.a. chanman
10/18/2003 (6:06 am)
Drew's idea will make TT more like Velocity's Spectre Supreme. It was one of the first, second-generation-3D tank battle game for the Mac; circa 1993.Game only had a solo "kill bots until you die" mode. But if you purchased their multi-player packs, you can have up to eight tanks in the vBattle field (only over a LAN that supported AppleTalk Phase II and IPX). 12 multi-player games that included team play games such as: "Arena (like Battlemode", "CTF", "Rallies", "IT", "Keep Away" and "BitBall (like Scrum)".
My favorite tank setting in Spectre Supreme was a heavily armored, maneuverable and fast "Spectre" with almost no ammo (30 shots).
Off subject I know. Sorry.
- Sam a.k.a. chanman
#6
The heavy takes a lot of practice. When I first started TT, I stuck with the medium for quite a while. After reading these forums and digesting others' advice on the heavy, I thought it would be good to try out. I was against the lights to begin with, just because that's what everyone else was playing (vive le difference!). Plus, I just prefer something that can dish out the pain (shot power, accuracy)... I'm a Y-wing ace from way back.
The secret to the heavy is to shoot more and drive less. If you're not accurate with the mouse, then you're lost. Don't waste too much time with powerups, don't waste too much time dodging, don't run away when you're smoking (like the lights do)... every moment you're not firing translates to wasted points. If you're almost dead, you have to inflict as much damage on your enemy as you can before you die. Have the courage to die fighting in the midst of battle, not running away like a coward.
The secret to the light is to shoot less and drive more. Ben can expound upon that, as well as the light tank "rock-a-bye-baby" manuever. My only advice for the light is to use it in scrum, and 95% of the time in CTF.
LC50
10/18/2003 (8:04 am)
Thanks Ben, and I second the Chanman's motion. Just one more shot per clip (with the same reload time, same shot strength) would be nice.The heavy takes a lot of practice. When I first started TT, I stuck with the medium for quite a while. After reading these forums and digesting others' advice on the heavy, I thought it would be good to try out. I was against the lights to begin with, just because that's what everyone else was playing (vive le difference!). Plus, I just prefer something that can dish out the pain (shot power, accuracy)... I'm a Y-wing ace from way back.
The secret to the heavy is to shoot more and drive less. If you're not accurate with the mouse, then you're lost. Don't waste too much time with powerups, don't waste too much time dodging, don't run away when you're smoking (like the lights do)... every moment you're not firing translates to wasted points. If you're almost dead, you have to inflict as much damage on your enemy as you can before you die. Have the courage to die fighting in the midst of battle, not running away like a coward.
The secret to the light is to shoot less and drive more. Ben can expound upon that, as well as the light tank "rock-a-bye-baby" manuever. My only advice for the light is to use it in scrum, and 95% of the time in CTF.
LC50
#7
The key to the heavy is, as LC50 pointed out, shot accuracy. Make every shot from the heavy count. If you spray fire with a heavy, you are dead meat. If you take it calm and slow, you will kick butt.
As for customizing tanks stats... well, it ain't gonna happen. This is a game about driving and shooting skills. If we start allow players to tweak the tanks individually, then everyone will start talking about how so and so's configuration is what makes him so good.
We are watching and taking notes, and popping into the servers to see how things are going, but we are not just going to make the heavy so powerful that it overpowers every game.
Before the next version comes out, I will probably open up another 'heavy testing' server to test the tank balance. If you see it, join in, play the heavy, and give feedback. I did this before 1.1 and incorporated all the direct feedback I got on the balance. If you see Pokemalo tooling around in a server called 'Heavy Testing', pop in for a few.
Joe
10/18/2003 (9:55 am)
Sorry Guys, the heavy is strong enough. If you learn how to use it, it is the most devasting tank on the battlefield. Head to head, there is no contest. If you are getting picked on by everyone, well, yeah, it can be painful, but it is still dishes out more pain per shot than the other tanks. The key to the heavy is, as LC50 pointed out, shot accuracy. Make every shot from the heavy count. If you spray fire with a heavy, you are dead meat. If you take it calm and slow, you will kick butt.
As for customizing tanks stats... well, it ain't gonna happen. This is a game about driving and shooting skills. If we start allow players to tweak the tanks individually, then everyone will start talking about how so and so's configuration is what makes him so good.
We are watching and taking notes, and popping into the servers to see how things are going, but we are not just going to make the heavy so powerful that it overpowers every game.
Before the next version comes out, I will probably open up another 'heavy testing' server to test the tank balance. If you see it, join in, play the heavy, and give feedback. I did this before 1.1 and incorporated all the direct feedback I got on the balance. If you see Pokemalo tooling around in a server called 'Heavy Testing', pop in for a few.
Joe
#9
10/18/2003 (10:01 am)
Pokemalo. And please don't pick on me too much if you see me, I am very rusty.
#12
I disagree. Unless my estimates are way off base (you can verify them on the _In Case You Were Curious_ thread) then the heavy is seriously dominated by lights.
The reason that so few players choose heavies is so much the difficulty of learning to employ them effectively as it is that they are out matched in nearly every game situation.
In Battlemode heavies are easily isolated and vulnerable to attack by rat packs of lights. In Team BM they fare a little better but only if they are well supported.
In scrum and team scrum they are primarily a novelty.
Certainly, if you match a single heavy against a single light it comes out looking formidible but in game play that is rarely the case. the light's small X-section and high speed make it a difficlut target while the heavy's slow speed and large X-section make it a virtual bullet magnet.
The heavy's slow redeployemt value (speed * spawnDelay) versus the the light's high redeployment value also counts against its effectiveness.
The mv^2 imbalance particularly handicaps heavies. A speeding light colliding with a heavy will displace the heavy an unreasonable distance at little or no cost to the light.
I still stand by my conclusions for balance from the previous thread:
1) Platform specific weapon ranges.
2) Increase the base mass by a few powers of ten.
3) Staggered respawn delays.
slugthog the ever so mildly contentious
10/18/2003 (11:50 pm)
@JoeI disagree. Unless my estimates are way off base (you can verify them on the _In Case You Were Curious_ thread) then the heavy is seriously dominated by lights.
The reason that so few players choose heavies is so much the difficulty of learning to employ them effectively as it is that they are out matched in nearly every game situation.
In Battlemode heavies are easily isolated and vulnerable to attack by rat packs of lights. In Team BM they fare a little better but only if they are well supported.
In scrum and team scrum they are primarily a novelty.
Certainly, if you match a single heavy against a single light it comes out looking formidible but in game play that is rarely the case. the light's small X-section and high speed make it a difficlut target while the heavy's slow speed and large X-section make it a virtual bullet magnet.
The heavy's slow redeployemt value (speed * spawnDelay) versus the the light's high redeployment value also counts against its effectiveness.
The mv^2 imbalance particularly handicaps heavies. A speeding light colliding with a heavy will displace the heavy an unreasonable distance at little or no cost to the light.
I still stand by my conclusions for balance from the previous thread:
1) Platform specific weapon ranges.
2) Increase the base mass by a few powers of ten.
3) Staggered respawn delays.
slugthog the ever so mildly contentious
Sizicus
Ben(SA)