Several questions before I make the plunge
by Jason Ellis · in Torque Game Engine · 10/11/2003 (1:00 am) · 9 replies
Howdy all..
I have a couple questions before I am willing to buy the engine. Not because it's not an incredible deal, but rather because I need to know what I am getting into..
I have several game ideas that I would like to tinker with as a hobbiest, but up to now, I have done all my programming in Delphi.. Not C++..
Without arguing the merits of either language, is this engine something that a virtual C++ noob can learn and use in short order? Or will I be completely lost? Lost := baaaad..
How often is the engine updated "Officially"? And how often are people adding stuff to it that isn't official?
If someone makes an addon to the engine does it appear in the CVS or is it never added to the official engine? Are those addons supported by the GG staff or the original creators?
I realize that you get the entire source code to the engine itself, but do you get sample source codes? Is there the typical "FPS demo" source and all the bells and whistles..(or other game sources) or are you kind of stuck learning on your own? Demo's are guuuud.. It would certainly help the non-C++ users get into the swing of things.. Lots of little simple "how to" tutorials are never to be over looked..
Some of my game ideas are not FPS but rather RTS in nature. Would this engine be condusive to making some RTS style games? (Think Warcraft 3 or AOE..)
Are there some sample scripts online that I can look at now? I don't want the source code to look at yet because that would defeat the purpose of purcahsing it.. hehe but the ability to gander at some scripts would help me greatly.. Also with this scripting language you have in Torque, is there a fully documented procedure/function/method/property..etc.. document somewhere? Do these doc's come with the purchase?
So far.. this is one of the coolest engines I have found.. I *think* its just what I am looking for..And the price is certainly.. well.. mind boggling.. (too bad it isn't for a language I know.. haha)
The main question I need answered is the first one.. Will it be something that I can easily get into considering I'm not a C++ programmer, but have quite a bit of other object oriented programming experience.. (and am not against learning C++.. I just dont know it now)
Thanks gang..
I have a couple questions before I am willing to buy the engine. Not because it's not an incredible deal, but rather because I need to know what I am getting into..
I have several game ideas that I would like to tinker with as a hobbiest, but up to now, I have done all my programming in Delphi.. Not C++..
Without arguing the merits of either language, is this engine something that a virtual C++ noob can learn and use in short order? Or will I be completely lost? Lost := baaaad..
How often is the engine updated "Officially"? And how often are people adding stuff to it that isn't official?
If someone makes an addon to the engine does it appear in the CVS or is it never added to the official engine? Are those addons supported by the GG staff or the original creators?
I realize that you get the entire source code to the engine itself, but do you get sample source codes? Is there the typical "FPS demo" source and all the bells and whistles..(or other game sources) or are you kind of stuck learning on your own? Demo's are guuuud.. It would certainly help the non-C++ users get into the swing of things.. Lots of little simple "how to" tutorials are never to be over looked..
Some of my game ideas are not FPS but rather RTS in nature. Would this engine be condusive to making some RTS style games? (Think Warcraft 3 or AOE..)
Are there some sample scripts online that I can look at now? I don't want the source code to look at yet because that would defeat the purpose of purcahsing it.. hehe but the ability to gander at some scripts would help me greatly.. Also with this scripting language you have in Torque, is there a fully documented procedure/function/method/property..etc.. document somewhere? Do these doc's come with the purchase?
So far.. this is one of the coolest engines I have found.. I *think* its just what I am looking for..And the price is certainly.. well.. mind boggling.. (too bad it isn't for a language I know.. haha)
The main question I need answered is the first one.. Will it be something that I can easily get into considering I'm not a C++ programmer, but have quite a bit of other object oriented programming experience.. (and am not against learning C++.. I just dont know it now)
Thanks gang..
About the author
#2
I really like the knowledge that I am learning from torque. I believe a lot of it will depend on the person. You have a lot more programming experience. But like you I got a idea of what I want to do with the engine. And Hungry enough to spend time and energy to try and grasp it.
Now I have never looked a piece of C++ code. But the more I read my books and use my stick to poke at the Torque code. Little things are beginning to fall in place.
I think you will be happy with torque if you decide to buy. I know I am. :)
John H
10/11/2003 (6:04 am)
Hi JasonI really like the knowledge that I am learning from torque. I believe a lot of it will depend on the person. You have a lot more programming experience. But like you I got a idea of what I want to do with the engine. And Hungry enough to spend time and energy to try and grasp it.
Now I have never looked a piece of C++ code. But the more I read my books and use my stick to poke at the Torque code. Little things are beginning to fall in place.
I think you will be happy with torque if you decide to buy. I know I am. :)
John H
#3
Check out the demo -> www.garagegames.com/pg/demo.php?id=1
10/11/2003 (6:25 am)
Torque made my life(code wise hehe) sooo much easier :)Check out the demo -> www.garagegames.com/pg/demo.php?id=1
#4
Hope that helped ;)
10/11/2003 (7:19 am)
Quote:Without arguing the merits of either language, is this engine something that a virtual C++ noob can learn and use in short order?The short answer.. yes, I think so. You can start with the scripts (which is really just typeless C), which is pretty easy to learn. Then from there you can forge a path through the engine code :D
Quote:The engine is updated fairly often, but those are just Head updates in the CVS, and can be buggy. In terms of Official updates, its been over a year since the last one, but the next one is comming out very soon :D People are adding stuff more often than official updates come out. There appear as code snippits that you can use if you want.
How often is the engine updated "Officially"? And how often are people adding stuff to it that isn't official?
Quote:Only enhancements to then engine (ie, non game specific stuff) is added to CVS. That and patches for bugs. These are not supported by GG in an official sense, but usually any bugs/updates goto/come from the authors of the code snippit.
If someone makes an addon to the engine does it appear in the CVS or is it never added to the official engine? Are those addons supported by the GG staff or the original creators?
Quote:It does come with the downloadable demo. There is also a fps demo that shows simple things like weapons, inventory, players, ui stuff, server scripts etc. Basically its a 'playable' game, but there isnt much content. One gun, One player, 3 levels. The GG guys said something about how they want to add default 'packages' or something that are skeletons for different game genres (RTS, FPS, etc). There are TONS of third party sites that have tutorials on how to script etc. There is also the offiacial documentation that just got updated (not long ago).
I realize that you get the entire source code to the engine itself, but do you get sample source codes? Is there the typical "FPS demo" source and all the bells and whistles..(or other game sources) or are you kind of stuck learning on your own? Demo's are guuuud.. It would certainly help the non-C++ users get into the swing of things.. Lots of little simple "how to" tutorials are never to be over looked..
Quote:There are a few people going down this road, but apart from some code snippits there isnt much info on this. You would have to make a few new classes in C++ to implement the required functionality.
Some of my game ideas are not FPS but rather RTS in nature. Would this engine be condusive to making some RTS style games? (Think Warcraft 3 or AOE..)
Quote:see Realm Wars :D Or the Torue Demo (posted earlier)
Are there some sample scripts online that I can look at now? I don't want the source code to look at yet because that would defeat the purpose of purcahsing it.. hehe but the ability to gander at some scripts would help me greatly.. Also with this scripting language you have in Torque, is there a fully documented procedure/function/method/property..etc.. document somewhere? Do these doc's come with the purchase?
Quote:Yeah, it is :D I love it. It has its quirks, but they add spice to it :D
So far.. this is one of the coolest engines I have found.. I *think* its just what I am looking for..And the price is certainly.. well.. mind boggling.. (too bad it isn't for a language I know.. haha)
Hope that helped ;)
#5
I have more questions though of course.. heh
How easy/hard would it be to do first person transitional stuff like, a guy mounts in a vehicle.. so you go from first person, to a third person of the character climbing into the vehicle, back to a first person of the inside of the vehicle?
What about large space? Most engines don't handle vast amounts of space very well.. So if there are ships in space with no land mass at all, etc.. could that be easily done?
How about dynamic loading? As a player runs from one place to another over a large landmass or in space, are/can objects be loaded and unloaded dynamically or do all objects have to be loaded when the "level" begins? This is another thing that would make large space style games good. The ability to move away from objects and unload them.. etc..
What about large indoor ships in that space? would it be possible to create large moving bodies in space that players can move around in? SPace stations.. large space ships.. etc..
Thanks for your answers guys.. I'm very much looking forward to continue developing one of my games in a new engine..
10/11/2003 (3:10 pm)
Lots of good answers guys.. Thanks.. I'm that much closer to buyin it.. I have more questions though of course.. heh
How easy/hard would it be to do first person transitional stuff like, a guy mounts in a vehicle.. so you go from first person, to a third person of the character climbing into the vehicle, back to a first person of the inside of the vehicle?
What about large space? Most engines don't handle vast amounts of space very well.. So if there are ships in space with no land mass at all, etc.. could that be easily done?
How about dynamic loading? As a player runs from one place to another over a large landmass or in space, are/can objects be loaded and unloaded dynamically or do all objects have to be loaded when the "level" begins? This is another thing that would make large space style games good. The ability to move away from objects and unload them.. etc..
What about large indoor ships in that space? would it be possible to create large moving bodies in space that players can move around in? SPace stations.. large space ships.. etc..
Thanks for your answers guys.. I'm very much looking forward to continue developing one of my games in a new engine..
#6
Actually in the FPS/Race demo you can switch from first to third person view using the Tab key. When you make your models you will define the camera mount nodes. Cam01, Eye01, etc.,
There is a resource by Wendell Brown that lets you remove the terrain and Sky portions of Torque. Leaving you with a nice empty void of nothingness. Actually it's a Space Enviroment :) with actually Stars.
Like I mention earlier Jason Iam not a programmer, but this is a bit of the knowledge I pick up doing what your doing now. Looking, and asking questions. You should see the great stuff in the SDK forums....heh Oops I forgot you havent decided yet :)
John H.
10/11/2003 (4:06 pm)
Heh Well lets see: Dylan showed the way :)Quote:How easy/hard would it be to do first person transitional stuff like, a guy mounts in a vehicle.. so you go from first person, to a third person of the character climbing into the vehicle, back to a first person of the inside of the vehicle?
Actually in the FPS/Race demo you can switch from first to third person view using the Tab key. When you make your models you will define the camera mount nodes. Cam01, Eye01, etc.,
Quote:What about large space? Most engines don't handle vast amounts of space very well.. So if there are ships in space with no land mass at all, etc.. could that be easily done?
There is a resource by Wendell Brown that lets you remove the terrain and Sky portions of Torque. Leaving you with a nice empty void of nothingness. Actually it's a Space Enviroment :) with actually Stars.
Like I mention earlier Jason Iam not a programmer, but this is a bit of the knowledge I pick up doing what your doing now. Looking, and asking questions. You should see the great stuff in the SDK forums....heh Oops I forgot you havent decided yet :)
John H.
#7
I can't tell you the number of programming forums and game forums that I have participated in, in which knowledge was power and people would horde their little knowledge nuggets like gold.. Not giving them out and generally being snobby and unhelpful..
The fact that people even reply without flames is a new thing for me.. haha
10/11/2003 (4:15 pm)
Well I have to admit one of the biggest selling points is the fact that people answer questions and are generally helpful.. I can't tell you the number of programming forums and game forums that I have participated in, in which knowledge was power and people would horde their little knowledge nuggets like gold.. Not giving them out and generally being snobby and unhelpful..
The fact that people even reply without flames is a new thing for me.. haha
#8
/me grabs a flame thrower
:)
To tell you the truth, I'm not sure yet myself.. but I do know it will not be rendered if its not in your view. (ex: you are far away from it or looking in the other way)
No the interior moves, clients don't. You'd have to do some work for this to work.
10/11/2003 (5:07 pm)
Wait! We can fix that/me grabs a flame thrower
:)
Quote:flame flame flame!
How about dynamic loading? As a player runs from one place to another over a large landmass or in space, are/can objects be loaded and unloaded dynamically or do all objects have to be loaded when the "level" begins? This is another thing that would make large space style games good. The ability to move away from objects and unload them.. etc..
To tell you the truth, I'm not sure yet myself.. but I do know it will not be rendered if its not in your view. (ex: you are far away from it or looking in the other way)
Quote:More hot flames!
What about large indoor ships in that space? would it be possible to create large moving bodies in space that players can move around in? SPace stations.. large space ships.. etc..
No the interior moves, clients don't. You'd have to do some work for this to work.
#9
Wait till you start sifting through the resources section for user contributed patches and tutorials. I think you'll find that the GG community is extremely helpful and supportive. As long as you make sure that you at least TRY to help yourself / fins the answer on you own people will bend over backwards to help you. (i.e. "I'm trying to do xxx. I thought I could do it by modifying yyy like it said in this post (url) but it's not working the way I'd expect it to." Instead of "How do I do xxx?")
Dyanmic loading is possible. It's not supported out of the box, but it's fairly straightforward for most things. There are some tricky bits but, there's previous work to draw on.
10/12/2003 (6:42 am)
Quote:Well I have to admit one of the biggest selling points is the fact that people answer questions and are generally helpful..
Wait till you start sifting through the resources section for user contributed patches and tutorials. I think you'll find that the GG community is extremely helpful and supportive. As long as you make sure that you at least TRY to help yourself / fins the answer on you own people will bend over backwards to help you. (i.e. "I'm trying to do xxx. I thought I could do it by modifying yyy like it said in this post (url) but it's not working the way I'd expect it to." Instead of "How do I do xxx?")
Quote:How about dynamic loading? As a player runs from one place to another over a large landmass or in space, are/can objects be loaded and unloaded dynamically or do all objects have to be loaded when the "level" begins? This is another thing that would make large space style games good. The ability to move away from objects and unload them.. etc..
Dyanmic loading is possible. It's not supported out of the box, but it's fairly straightforward for most things. There are some tricky bits but, there's previous work to draw on.
Torque Owner Edward Smith
Silencersoft
Only the engine code is in C++, to make a RTS you would most likely have to use it abit. Take a look in the Code Snipits and Resources for things about Camera movement etc. You should find many answers to your questions.