DayZ, the War Z what is the GG community thinking about these?
by Kyrah Abattoir · in General Discussion · 10/06/2012 (3:04 am) · 3 replies
It appears that for the past months, those two titles have picked the interest of a certain category of players.
To me, from a game design standpoint, DayZ and WarZ distinguish themselves to a more or less degree by a lack of "structural features" a bit like minecraft did:
"This is a game world, here are a bunch of toys and some zombies, now lets see what unfolds."
In a way you could consider they are "cheap" games in term of game design, in the case of dayZ there is a deliberate lack of balancing by the developers whose goal appears to be to create some kind of an anti game.
Hell, the closest thing in DayZ that COULD be considered a "core mechanic" is that you need to eat and drink to stay alive.
At the same time I understand and admire such chaotic designs. There is a certain beauty to it, no missions, no factions, no structure. Howver, these games rely a lot on players to generate compelling events and this might be their weakest point:
From my experience playing those games, players tend to go through two phases:
-Phase 1: Discovery of the game, reasonable attempts to play along with others, met with some success, but also some failure.
-Phase 2: This is where most players end up after a couple of in game deaths, where they realize that the safest, most conservative way to play is to simply kill everyone they manage to get the jump on, regardless of intents.
From phase two the game essentially devolve to a simple death match fueled by plain fear of the uncertainty that is core to the game.
So what are you guys opinions? Are those games lazy with their loose structure and lack of core mechanics?
Are they recipes for social (and financial for those crazy enough to make a paying game) disaster as players make the game a living hell for each others?
Are there some lessons to get from it?
Can those games be "fixed" without sacrifying on the freedom of action they boast?
I realize that this is almost a continuation of one of my previous topics, if anyone is interested:
http://www.garagegames.com/community/forums/viewthread/115631
To me, from a game design standpoint, DayZ and WarZ distinguish themselves to a more or less degree by a lack of "structural features" a bit like minecraft did:
"This is a game world, here are a bunch of toys and some zombies, now lets see what unfolds."
In a way you could consider they are "cheap" games in term of game design, in the case of dayZ there is a deliberate lack of balancing by the developers whose goal appears to be to create some kind of an anti game.
Hell, the closest thing in DayZ that COULD be considered a "core mechanic" is that you need to eat and drink to stay alive.
At the same time I understand and admire such chaotic designs. There is a certain beauty to it, no missions, no factions, no structure. Howver, these games rely a lot on players to generate compelling events and this might be their weakest point:
From my experience playing those games, players tend to go through two phases:
-Phase 1: Discovery of the game, reasonable attempts to play along with others, met with some success, but also some failure.
-Phase 2: This is where most players end up after a couple of in game deaths, where they realize that the safest, most conservative way to play is to simply kill everyone they manage to get the jump on, regardless of intents.
From phase two the game essentially devolve to a simple death match fueled by plain fear of the uncertainty that is core to the game.
So what are you guys opinions? Are those games lazy with their loose structure and lack of core mechanics?
Are they recipes for social (and financial for those crazy enough to make a paying game) disaster as players make the game a living hell for each others?
Are there some lessons to get from it?
Can those games be "fixed" without sacrifying on the freedom of action they boast?
I realize that this is almost a continuation of one of my previous topics, if anyone is interested:
http://www.garagegames.com/community/forums/viewthread/115631
About the author
3D artist, programmer, game designer, jack of all trades, master of none.
#2
I suppose that in those games, the designers wish to see factions of their own appear, like in the Ultima Online days, where players would gather under a name and all wear the same "colors".
In this regard, the simple ability to dye a shirt in a specific color is enough of a mechanic to allow the creation of user made factions (no need for a completely official, structure)
I guess, like i was told before, if you want players to pick the non violent approach, you have to somehow make it at least as appealing as the violent approach.
Which is kind of difficult if you think about it, short of simply punishing the player, what options do you really have to let one player simply walk by another? Most of the time the risk of being a good samaritan is too great.
10/07/2012 (1:34 am)
Yeah but then it reduces the game into a faction vs faction war, players having even less of a reason to kill an opposite faction member.I suppose that in those games, the designers wish to see factions of their own appear, like in the Ultima Online days, where players would gather under a name and all wear the same "colors".
In this regard, the simple ability to dye a shirt in a specific color is enough of a mechanic to allow the creation of user made factions (no need for a completely official, structure)
I guess, like i was told before, if you want players to pick the non violent approach, you have to somehow make it at least as appealing as the violent approach.
Which is kind of difficult if you think about it, short of simply punishing the player, what options do you really have to let one player simply walk by another? Most of the time the risk of being a good samaritan is too great.
#3
10/07/2012 (5:31 pm)
DayZ is simply awesome, it breaks the common structure that we often see in games like factions, guilds and etc. a kinda true sandbox game! there are few things that i would love to see incorporated in the game, a true natural motion (Euphoria, anyone?) for the zombies and better physics. Arma 2 engine offers the perfect tools despise not being very optimized. 
Torque Owner Dan Webb
PsyCandy Games
I don't think it's lazy design, or anti-game, but I do think there needs to be a balance of top-down design and emergent gameplay for this to be a true genre of sorts. It's basically sandbox, but without the sand.