Refund for somebody who this goes way over there head
by Nana-an-hu · in Torque Game Engine · 09/23/2003 (3:15 pm) · 25 replies
I have been trying to get started with the engine for a couple of weeks and have still got no idea how to achieve anything (Not for lack of effort). And would like to know how to request a refund as I am completly unable to put this to any use. :-(
#2
09/23/2003 (7:01 pm)
My recommendation is to keep it and come back and take a look as your programming skills improve. Besides, it's a lot of engine and nobody will be able to pick the entire thing up in a couple weeks. Just my thoughts :)
#3
09/23/2003 (7:50 pm)
Ben (Swanson) has a good point. It took me over a year to begin to get comfortable with the engine...
#4
09/23/2003 (7:55 pm)
I agree with both Bens for someone of intermediate skill is looking at 12 - 18 months to understand the engine. Probably 3 - 6 months to understand the scripting if you are a novice/non programmer.
#5
But, on second thought, no.
This is going to be very hard to get a refund with, because it's practically impossible for GG to know when you've "given it back."
It's not like taking something back to the store... once you have it, you're infected.
09/23/2003 (8:51 pm)
You could take that other guys approach and spam the forums with complaints, flames and insults. That worked. :)But, on second thought, no.
This is going to be very hard to get a refund with, because it's practically impossible for GG to know when you've "given it back."
It's not like taking something back to the store... once you have it, you're infected.
#6
I'm not 'expert' by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm learning. But I knew what I was getting into; Complicated engine, only modest documentation, and the expectation for me to figure it out on my own. The forums are here to help us and you just have to be patient.
If you're not a coder or do not have access to a coder buddy/coworker, then I seriously suggest ploinking some cash down for a few good C++/3d programming reference books. I don't know of any good beginner books, but the OpenGL red book/blue book is an invaluable reference. I usually have it right beside me while I trace through Torque's OpenGL calls...
09/24/2003 (5:34 pm)
Abigail, I'd give it few months or so. Torque is complicated. HUGELY complicated. I've had to step through the code, line by line, numerous times to figure out what's going on.I'm not 'expert' by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm learning. But I knew what I was getting into; Complicated engine, only modest documentation, and the expectation for me to figure it out on my own. The forums are here to help us and you just have to be patient.
If you're not a coder or do not have access to a coder buddy/coworker, then I seriously suggest ploinking some cash down for a few good C++/3d programming reference books. I don't know of any good beginner books, but the OpenGL red book/blue book is an invaluable reference. I usually have it right beside me while I trace through Torque's OpenGL calls...
#7
09/25/2003 (2:36 am)
Well, guess I'm just not making the transition from VB too well. Gotta keep at it I guess :-) 
#8
09/25/2003 (5:28 am)
My advice would be to start with learning the scripting code. You can do some neat stuff just by using that.
#9
Why not try something intermediate to Torque that is more straight foward and much better supported like QuakeII or something in the interm.
There is a QuakeII port to managed C++ that you can mod with C#, it would be much less foriegn that Torque and a propritery scripting langague like TorqueScript.
At least you could get the basics of game development and terms down since everything is very similar at a certain level like graphics sub-systems and other "core" functionality.
09/25/2003 (9:41 am)
Ok, transitioning from VB is going to be a longer row to hoe :-(Why not try something intermediate to Torque that is more straight foward and much better supported like QuakeII or something in the interm.
There is a QuakeII port to managed C++ that you can mod with C#, it would be much less foriegn that Torque and a propritery scripting langague like TorqueScript.
At least you could get the basics of game development and terms down since everything is very similar at a certain level like graphics sub-systems and other "core" functionality.
#10
I first got the Torque SDK in 2001. I looked at it (after trying many other engines), and I thought "My God! What have I gotten myself into?"
I spent the last couple of years writing my own engine in C++, C#, and even VB. Trying different avenues that at first looked much more comprehensive.
But, during that time I always said to myself "You know self...Torque has that already built-in. It has the network code, it does server-side simulation to help keep the client from cheating, it does shadows, it does blah blah blah.....etc"
So, I finally told myself..."Take it one step at a time."
The latest HEAD version has some really nice additions to it. Good examples to start with.
What I did was take each script at a time and break it down to learn it. I took a month to learn things piece by piece. I still have a whole lot to learn, but now I realize that if I had disciplined myself to just learn this when I first got it, my game would have been done by now. But instead, I spent 2 years trying other 'easier' options that always left me with something missing.
Now, I'm having a great time seeing my game slowly come together.
TGE overall can pretty overwhelming. Chop it up into sections in your mind. Start with the simple areas like changing the text in the demo game. Then I moved on to playing around with the crossbow bolt settings. Then I took the crossbow bolt and started cloning it to make different spells for my game. I finally feel like I'm doing something.
You can do it. Just keep at it. I've tried almost every game engine on the market that is under $300 or free (heh..I guess that's under $300). TGE still seems to have the most to offer. It's just very cryptic at first.
Now I'm trying to teach myself 3D modelling, so I can add more player characters. It's starting to get exciting.
Oh yeah...make sure to check out the resources and code snippet links on the site. Really really nice stuff there. I just learned how to make shotgun effects this afternoon thanks to the wonderful people on this site.
01/19/2004 (2:25 pm)
I'm going to agree with the guys saying stick with it.I first got the Torque SDK in 2001. I looked at it (after trying many other engines), and I thought "My God! What have I gotten myself into?"
I spent the last couple of years writing my own engine in C++, C#, and even VB. Trying different avenues that at first looked much more comprehensive.
But, during that time I always said to myself "You know self...Torque has that already built-in. It has the network code, it does server-side simulation to help keep the client from cheating, it does shadows, it does blah blah blah.....etc"
So, I finally told myself..."Take it one step at a time."
The latest HEAD version has some really nice additions to it. Good examples to start with.
What I did was take each script at a time and break it down to learn it. I took a month to learn things piece by piece. I still have a whole lot to learn, but now I realize that if I had disciplined myself to just learn this when I first got it, my game would have been done by now. But instead, I spent 2 years trying other 'easier' options that always left me with something missing.
Now, I'm having a great time seeing my game slowly come together.
TGE overall can pretty overwhelming. Chop it up into sections in your mind. Start with the simple areas like changing the text in the demo game. Then I moved on to playing around with the crossbow bolt settings. Then I took the crossbow bolt and started cloning it to make different spells for my game. I finally feel like I'm doing something.
You can do it. Just keep at it. I've tried almost every game engine on the market that is under $300 or free (heh..I guess that's under $300). TGE still seems to have the most to offer. It's just very cryptic at first.
Now I'm trying to teach myself 3D modelling, so I can add more player characters. It's starting to get exciting.
Oh yeah...make sure to check out the resources and code snippet links on the site. Really really nice stuff there. I just learned how to make shotgun effects this afternoon thanks to the wonderful people on this site.
#11
01/19/2004 (8:36 pm)
Thread's been dead for a year at least... It might be best to focus your attention on more active ones. :) 
#12
01/19/2004 (10:44 pm)
Less than 4 months. :D
#13
01/19/2004 (11:19 pm)
I'm still here in need of encouragement :-) 
#14
My skill are actually better in VB than C/C++. What I am doing (whenever I have time) is try to do the changes in the script files. You'll be surprised how much you can do with the engine without touching the C++ source. :)
Alex
01/20/2004 (12:43 am)
Hello Abigail.My skill are actually better in VB than C/C++. What I am doing (whenever I have time) is try to do the changes in the script files. You'll be surprised how much you can do with the engine without touching the C++ source. :)
Alex
#15
I understand what you're trying to say, but you must not have noticed the Sept 2003 postings. Obviously not been dead for a year at least. :)
Even posts a few months old can be helpful to people.
01/20/2004 (7:43 am)
"Thread's been dead for a year at least... It might be best to focus your attention on more active ones. :)"I understand what you're trying to say, but you must not have noticed the Sept 2003 postings. Obviously not been dead for a year at least. :)
Even posts a few months old can be helpful to people.
#16
I really liked your post. I went through a similar thing with TGE myself. Perhaps it should be posted as a resource =)
01/20/2004 (7:59 am)
Gary,I really liked your post. I went through a similar thing with TGE myself. Perhaps it should be posted as a resource =)
#17
01/20/2004 (3:39 pm)
Well, when I got Torque it was a lot!!! Yo ucan't just jump in and expect to create your dream game. Took me a month or so to get started and prolly like 5 more to get confortable with it (and finish a game). Now I feel I can move onto "bigger" games in Torque.
#18
DCF aka dudeman
02/01/2004 (8:43 am)
Glad you guys mentioned how long it took to get comfortable with the engine. I recently purchased the engine and was perplexed at where to begin. I too have purchased almost every low cost engine out there and have been left unsatisfied. I finally figured 'why keep trying to re-invent the wheel when Torque has so much already implemented.' Now that I'm on the inside looking out, I realize how complicated Torque is and how long it will take for me to get a handle on it. I teach college courses in computer science for Pete sake, so when I found myself lost with Torque I was more than a little discouraged. Now I understand that it has to be taken in small increments which is cool, and I don't have to feel like I'm the only one who's lost. I can't wait to be able to buy the docs though...DCF aka dudeman
#19
It took me a year to really understand Torque, and I still don't have the entire thing in my head.a
02/01/2004 (1:33 pm)
Excellent attitude, guys. :)It took me a year to really understand Torque, and I still don't have the entire thing in my head.a
#20
Like has been said, take it easy.. scripting language first to get used to what services the engine supports, then into the engine itself from there if you need/want to. It is literally impossible to absorb the volume of code in the TGE in a couple of weeks.. I have projects here at work where it's taken months to go over codebases delivered from different divisions that were in the 350K LOC range. My head routinely explodes.. lol..
It's not much better anywhere else, either. I've tried a few other engines and either (a) they're simple and lacking in capability or (b) they have about the same learning curve. I started to try writing my own - still have several hundred dollars of (now unused) books on the topic - before deciding that I'd die of old age before I got it all done. Heh.
The path to a finished game always starts with the moral equivalent of "hello, world". :p
02/02/2004 (10:45 am)
I just licensed Torque this weekend, and woah. There's a lot there, it's overwhelming.. and I'm a senior software engineer coding C++ for consumer electronics products!Like has been said, take it easy.. scripting language first to get used to what services the engine supports, then into the engine itself from there if you need/want to. It is literally impossible to absorb the volume of code in the TGE in a couple of weeks.. I have projects here at work where it's taken months to go over codebases delivered from different divisions that were in the 350K LOC range. My head routinely explodes.. lol..
It's not much better anywhere else, either. I've tried a few other engines and either (a) they're simple and lacking in capability or (b) they have about the same learning curve. I started to try writing my own - still have several hundred dollars of (now unused) books on the topic - before deciding that I'd die of old age before I got it all done. Heh.
The path to a finished game always starts with the moral equivalent of "hello, world". :p
Associate Kyle Carter