Advanced lighting answers.
by The Guv · in Torque 3D Professional · 01/17/2012 (2:55 pm) · 7 replies
Hi All, well about a year has passed and we're actually ready to light our level.
So, I've got some questions regarding the point and spot lights,their settings, and use.
We're using advanced lighting model...Am I okay adding 100's o small spots around a level rather than a small collection o large point lights?
To get the shadows looking anywhere near okay I've had to make the shadow texture size 2048 as a minimum. Is there a big hit or me doing this? Do you have any tips to getting nice crisp shadows without the blocky edge.
Is there a best shadow type to use, ie. PSSM etc? I'm not sure which are best, and why there is a selection.
I'll have a trawl through the tutorials etc. now, but as I'm trying to get the pipeline absolutely nailed, I thought it would be prudent to ask the community as you'll have already done the task that I'm about to embark upon...
Many thanks as always. I'll share up my results as I get deeper into T3Ds lighting.
So, I've got some questions regarding the point and spot lights,their settings, and use.
We're using advanced lighting model...Am I okay adding 100's o small spots around a level rather than a small collection o large point lights?
To get the shadows looking anywhere near okay I've had to make the shadow texture size 2048 as a minimum. Is there a big hit or me doing this? Do you have any tips to getting nice crisp shadows without the blocky edge.
Is there a best shadow type to use, ie. PSSM etc? I'm not sure which are best, and why there is a selection.
I'll have a trawl through the tutorials etc. now, but as I'm trying to get the pipeline absolutely nailed, I thought it would be prudent to ask the community as you'll have already done the task that I'm about to embark upon...
Many thanks as always. I'll share up my results as I get deeper into T3Ds lighting.
#2
www.garagegames.com/community/forums/viewthread/124841
I was never able to get dark enough shadows without the hatching effect. I hope someone has found a way. If you do please post your process.
01/19/2012 (8:31 am)
here is a link to some shadow issues I had in 1.1beta. I am not sure if they still exist now in 1.2 www.garagegames.com/community/forums/viewthread/124841
I was never able to get dark enough shadows without the hatching effect. I hope someone has found a way. If you do please post your process.
#3
I think what's needed here is a definitive set of answers around this topic.
I've spent the last 3 days investigating lighting, and I'm starting to get some really nice results, but I'm unsure how best I should go about getting my level looking genuinely AAA and also running nice and fast.
Ie.
What's a sensible amount of lights in a deferred rendered scene? I've read around this topic that the amount of lights shouldn't really be an issue..
What is it doing from an optimizing point of view when were upping all of our shadows to 2048x2048 to try and get around the jaggy shadow edge. ?
What's the best quality shadow type? What's the least expensive shadow type?
Can someone point me to where I can see what every setting in a light actually does? Ie. Overdark factor etc.
I'm looking on all of this from an art point of view BTW. I'm not a programmer.
It's incredibly easy for me to throw stuff into me scene and bring it to its knees but make it look great, what I'd like to ensure from the outset is that I'm using t3d in a sensible way and then squeezing the quality out of the lighting correctly.
01/19/2012 (3:07 pm)
Thanks for your answers guys.I think what's needed here is a definitive set of answers around this topic.
I've spent the last 3 days investigating lighting, and I'm starting to get some really nice results, but I'm unsure how best I should go about getting my level looking genuinely AAA and also running nice and fast.
Ie.
What's a sensible amount of lights in a deferred rendered scene? I've read around this topic that the amount of lights shouldn't really be an issue..
What is it doing from an optimizing point of view when were upping all of our shadows to 2048x2048 to try and get around the jaggy shadow edge. ?
What's the best quality shadow type? What's the least expensive shadow type?
Can someone point me to where I can see what every setting in a light actually does? Ie. Overdark factor etc.
I'm looking on all of this from an art point of view BTW. I'm not a programmer.
It's incredibly easy for me to throw stuff into me scene and bring it to its knees but make it look great, what I'd like to ensure from the outset is that I'm using t3d in a sensible way and then squeezing the quality out of the lighting correctly.
#4
Also in the editor you can click on the fields and it'll give a brief explanation of what each does.
Quick explanation:
higher shadow size = less performance (no shadows = more obviously)
lights (even without shadowing) crossing over each other = less performance (multiple lighting passes on objects)
DualParabaloidSinglePass cheapest - watch that split!
CubeMape most expensive - takes some faffing to get nice
PSSM is for sun only
shadowSoftness -> does exactly what it says on the tin
01/19/2012 (3:44 pm)
I'm pretty sure lighting types are covered in the docs. And how to use Toolbar -> Lighting -> ShadowVis debugger.Also in the editor you can click on the fields and it'll give a brief explanation of what each does.
Quick explanation:
higher shadow size = less performance (no shadows = more obviously)
lights (even without shadowing) crossing over each other = less performance (multiple lighting passes on objects)
DualParabaloidSinglePass cheapest - watch that split!
CubeMape most expensive - takes some faffing to get nice
PSSM is for sun only
shadowSoftness -> does exactly what it says on the tin
#5
On that note, if I had a library of these prefabs, let's say there are 30 different assets, all sharing 2 or 3 textures, and each is used many times in the level, would you expect to see large gains from them instancing? Is that still the casecif they're prefab? Is it still the case if some of the prefab are exploded to remove a light or two where It's not needed as these assets overlap etc?
So what would be the shadow of choice? Do they all work as intended?
My scene is effectively a trench, think deathstar run, created from instanced kitparts and terrain system. Themes a sun creating a deep shadow then loads of lights needed to bring it to life in this deep trench...
What would be ideal as I've mentioned in another thread would be a way to export all of this into purelight or similar, bake the whole thing from all of these lights, then just have realtime headlights on the player/vehicle but a) I don't know if that's possible and b) if it were I guess my instancing would be redundant?
Massive thanks for shedding a bit of light on all this, no pun intended !
01/19/2012 (5:39 pm)
Cheers Steve, now that's what I'm talking about. I'll look into this more tomorrow and over the weekend. So if I had many many small spots in a scene, let's say ,dunno,300, so long as they don't cross it would be preferable to say a dozen largec ight sources that cross each other? I'm thinking about lighting each building asset then combining as a prefab before population the scene.On that note, if I had a library of these prefabs, let's say there are 30 different assets, all sharing 2 or 3 textures, and each is used many times in the level, would you expect to see large gains from them instancing? Is that still the casecif they're prefab? Is it still the case if some of the prefab are exploded to remove a light or two where It's not needed as these assets overlap etc?
So what would be the shadow of choice? Do they all work as intended?
My scene is effectively a trench, think deathstar run, created from instanced kitparts and terrain system. Themes a sun creating a deep shadow then loads of lights needed to bring it to life in this deep trench...
What would be ideal as I've mentioned in another thread would be a way to export all of this into purelight or similar, bake the whole thing from all of these lights, then just have realtime headlights on the player/vehicle but a) I don't know if that's possible and b) if it were I guess my instancing would be redundant?
Massive thanks for shedding a bit of light on all this, no pun intended !
#6
Previously I made a huge level with 500 lights, but had them arranged into groups/areas so they could be disabled when the player wasn't using them. Major performance gain. Vid of some action, lights and tonemapping
Same level I built in a 3D app and then imported into PL. vid of PL tonemaps only
Looking at my old files it seem I chose "dualParaboloid" for shadowType, and 150 of my 500 lights used shadows.
Instancing only works on small meshes. The setting is in your prefs file, it might only be a few hundred tris.
As ever the best thing is always to play with the settings, positions, etc and see what works best for you under various circumstances
01/20/2012 (4:17 am)
Every surface receiving light lowers performance.Previously I made a huge level with 500 lights, but had them arranged into groups/areas so they could be disabled when the player wasn't using them. Major performance gain. Vid of some action, lights and tonemapping
Same level I built in a 3D app and then imported into PL. vid of PL tonemaps only
Looking at my old files it seem I chose "dualParaboloid" for shadowType, and 150 of my 500 lights used shadows.
Instancing only works on small meshes. The setting is in your prefs file, it might only be a few hundred tris.
As ever the best thing is always to play with the settings, positions, etc and see what works best for you under various circumstances
#7
Many thanks for all your advice and tips, we really appreciate it! We'll be spending the next few months getting a feel for exactly what we can get away with in the engine, optimising like crazy and investigationg just what kind of quality we can sqeeze out of it too...wish me luck!
01/29/2012 (7:17 am)
Hi Steve /allMany thanks for all your advice and tips, we really appreciate it! We'll be spending the next few months getting a feel for exactly what we can get away with in the engine, optimising like crazy and investigationg just what kind of quality we can sqeeze out of it too...wish me luck!
Torque Owner Richard Ranft
Roostertail Games