A general discussion on tactics
by slugthog · in ThinkTanks · 09/22/2003 (4:52 pm) · 38 replies
Part I
No one else seems motivated so I suppose I will begin it. And since I'm so long winded this'll probably take up at the first two postings.
A wide open discussion on tactics and strategy.
Let me preface by affirming that I'm just shootin' from the hip here, these are my conclusions from my observations. I may change my opinions in a couple of weeks. One of you might point out an obvious flaw in my reasoning. After all I've only been playin' ThinkTanks for about a month.
So in no particular order but mostly about SCRUM because that's mostly what I play.
SCRUM/TEAM SCRUM: There is a body of players whose style is to trail along behind the ball carrier a shootin' and a hollerin' and launching projectiles and directing vile epithets at any an all who do not follow in their wake. Now theirs is certainly a popular tactic. But, like the old guy once said, which old guy I don't recall, just because something is popular doesn't mean it's a particularly smart. As any number of old guys have said, a stern chase is a long chase and not a particularly profitable one.
Now if you don't have any idea where a fellow is headed then chasin' along behind him might be a pretty good tactic but if you know where he's going, and in scrum you do know where he's going, then there is a lot to be said for getting between him and his objective. The more folks there are between the ball carrier and the goal the more problems he is going to have to solve in order to get the ball in the goal.
Sure you want to have a fellow or two chasin' along behind a whoopin' and a hollerin' just so he doesn't settle down on a hummock somewheres and give y'all the finger. Most of the rest of you probably want to be between the carrier and his objective, between him and the goal; some of you closer to the carrier; some of you closer to the goal.
SCRUM/TEAM SCRUM: Camping! There ain't no such thing. There's just the other guy got to the area of the goal before you did. If someone wants to settle down right inside that green column, no problem. For one thing the visibility from inside the goal isn't all that good. You got thosu green lines goin' around; you got bullets comin' in from every which a way; you got tanks bouncin' off you. It is my observation someone sitting inside the goal is much less of a threat that he would be outside of it.
If you die and respawn in the neighborhood of the goal it is generally more profitable to remain in that neighborhood than it is to go chasing out after the ball carrier, particularly if everyone else is out chasing after him. Remember, at some point he's going to have to come to you if he wants to scoret.
SCRUM/TEAM SCRUM: Killing folks after the point has been scored. Now just meditate on this one folks. When you kill, eliminate, another player then he is respawned at full strength and is just as likely to appear closer to the ball than he is currently. On the other hand, if you leave him smokin; and rattlin' he's going to be a darn sight easier to eliminate later should he find himself in possession of the ball.
SCRUM: Killing players who are away from the ball and killing defenders near the goal. If you aren't the ball carrier killing defenders ranks right up there with the other examples of recto-cranial inversion. All those other defenders are going to make it harder for the carrier to score a goal and the harder it is for him to score the greater the chance of you forcing a turn-over and scoring yourself.
slugthog the long winded
No one else seems motivated so I suppose I will begin it. And since I'm so long winded this'll probably take up at the first two postings.
A wide open discussion on tactics and strategy.
Let me preface by affirming that I'm just shootin' from the hip here, these are my conclusions from my observations. I may change my opinions in a couple of weeks. One of you might point out an obvious flaw in my reasoning. After all I've only been playin' ThinkTanks for about a month.
So in no particular order but mostly about SCRUM because that's mostly what I play.
SCRUM/TEAM SCRUM: There is a body of players whose style is to trail along behind the ball carrier a shootin' and a hollerin' and launching projectiles and directing vile epithets at any an all who do not follow in their wake. Now theirs is certainly a popular tactic. But, like the old guy once said, which old guy I don't recall, just because something is popular doesn't mean it's a particularly smart. As any number of old guys have said, a stern chase is a long chase and not a particularly profitable one.
Now if you don't have any idea where a fellow is headed then chasin' along behind him might be a pretty good tactic but if you know where he's going, and in scrum you do know where he's going, then there is a lot to be said for getting between him and his objective. The more folks there are between the ball carrier and the goal the more problems he is going to have to solve in order to get the ball in the goal.
Sure you want to have a fellow or two chasin' along behind a whoopin' and a hollerin' just so he doesn't settle down on a hummock somewheres and give y'all the finger. Most of the rest of you probably want to be between the carrier and his objective, between him and the goal; some of you closer to the carrier; some of you closer to the goal.
SCRUM/TEAM SCRUM: Camping! There ain't no such thing. There's just the other guy got to the area of the goal before you did. If someone wants to settle down right inside that green column, no problem. For one thing the visibility from inside the goal isn't all that good. You got thosu green lines goin' around; you got bullets comin' in from every which a way; you got tanks bouncin' off you. It is my observation someone sitting inside the goal is much less of a threat that he would be outside of it.
If you die and respawn in the neighborhood of the goal it is generally more profitable to remain in that neighborhood than it is to go chasing out after the ball carrier, particularly if everyone else is out chasing after him. Remember, at some point he's going to have to come to you if he wants to scoret.
SCRUM/TEAM SCRUM: Killing folks after the point has been scored. Now just meditate on this one folks. When you kill, eliminate, another player then he is respawned at full strength and is just as likely to appear closer to the ball than he is currently. On the other hand, if you leave him smokin; and rattlin' he's going to be a darn sight easier to eliminate later should he find himself in possession of the ball.
SCRUM: Killing players who are away from the ball and killing defenders near the goal. If you aren't the ball carrier killing defenders ranks right up there with the other examples of recto-cranial inversion. All those other defenders are going to make it harder for the carrier to score a goal and the harder it is for him to score the greater the chance of you forcing a turn-over and scoring yourself.
slugthog the long winded
About the author
#22
Dude, no ill will from me. It's all rhetoric in my opinion. In fact, Dementus is a welcomed sight for any team that knows his skill in the heavy.
As far as the radar goes, i'll give you another interactive when I see you online.
j
09/23/2003 (5:37 pm)
@Slug,Dude, no ill will from me. It's all rhetoric in my opinion. In fact, Dementus is a welcomed sight for any team that knows his skill in the heavy.
As far as the radar goes, i'll give you another interactive when I see you online.
j
#23
- PREY
09/23/2003 (5:53 pm)
One tactical solution I didn't talk about. Seems other do it as well. The very name PREY causes more death than other players. I've played by other names and start feeling like #1 Tankster ... Run up the score. Hitting 10 in scum or team scum is cool. One thing I have not overcome. When you switch to a weak team, to even up play. If you're the only offensive threat. Doesn't work. You get killed having the ball or not. That is also when you try the Jangy "Tally" swipe. Not having one other offensive threat, doesn't work with a full house game. - PREY
#24
Specific distance is all vision of field, radar and experience for me.
Az
09/23/2003 (5:55 pm)
Sluggy thats the intuitive part I guess. Like I said I always pursue the flag as rule #1. When I respawn I just make a judgement call based on radar and what I just witnessed. Its like say I just picked up a fumble. I use all my resources to change my positional playing style. Thus adapting to what is in front of me for optimal performance.Specific distance is all vision of field, radar and experience for me.
Az
#25
It seems that only need break the line of the goal in order to score the point but I haven't yet ascertianed with which part of yer tank.
I remember KentuckyHlblly crossing the line in full fllight with his tank rolled at a precarious angle and score while later in the same game his tank was nearly half way within the circle and no goal.
Certainly camping is more of a problem in SCRUM than in TEAM SCRUM. In TEAM you should be able to rely on your team mates to open a path for you. That strategy isn't available in SCRUM.
Since there appears to be no height limit to the goal, flying above the melee is certainly a viable, though risky , tactic.
Lately when playersbbunch up I try to take the ball progressivly farther from the goal while snipong into the melee. Of course, then I run the risk of someone stealing the ball and charging back into the melee with it.
Someone suggested increasing the size of the goal. I might concur if it were done only for SCRUM and not for TEAM SCRUM.
Another tactical note.
TEAM SCRUM: Don't be a hero. Wait until your team has gathered before rushing the goal. I don't know how many times I watched a player charge into a bevy of opponents and lose the ball, and the point, when if he had waited onlly a second and a half longer half of his team would have been there to give an assist.
sluggy
09/23/2003 (5:59 pm)
I've often seen a roller slow and just creep into the goal in order to nullify a camper's strategy.It seems that only need break the line of the goal in order to score the point but I haven't yet ascertianed with which part of yer tank.
I remember KentuckyHlblly crossing the line in full fllight with his tank rolled at a precarious angle and score while later in the same game his tank was nearly half way within the circle and no goal.
Certainly camping is more of a problem in SCRUM than in TEAM SCRUM. In TEAM you should be able to rely on your team mates to open a path for you. That strategy isn't available in SCRUM.
Since there appears to be no height limit to the goal, flying above the melee is certainly a viable, though risky , tactic.
Lately when playersbbunch up I try to take the ball progressivly farther from the goal while snipong into the melee. Of course, then I run the risk of someone stealing the ball and charging back into the melee with it.
Someone suggested increasing the size of the goal. I might concur if it were done only for SCRUM and not for TEAM SCRUM.
Another tactical note.
TEAM SCRUM: Don't be a hero. Wait until your team has gathered before rushing the goal. I don't know how many times I watched a player charge into a bevy of opponents and lose the ball, and the point, when if he had waited onlly a second and a half longer half of his team would have been there to give an assist.
sluggy
#26
re: One tactical solution I didn't talk about. Seems other do it as well. The very name PREY causes more death than other players.
I think you're right on the button here. A player's choice of name can significantly change both his emjoyment of the game and his final score, to say nothing of how it effects the way other players relate to him.
sluggy
09/23/2003 (6:03 pm)
@Preyre: One tactical solution I didn't talk about. Seems other do it as well. The very name PREY causes more death than other players.
I think you're right on the button here. A player's choice of name can significantly change both his emjoyment of the game and his final score, to say nothing of how it effects the way other players relate to him.
sluggy
#27
Az
09/23/2003 (6:11 pm)
Thats vapor to me. Play Jangles or Tally Ho or Dork in 1 on 1 lol. Tanky or Foul would be the same players if they were Buttercup & Blossom I'm quite sure. Az
#28
- PREY
09/23/2003 (6:28 pm)
Az. Names do matter. Tally_ho always gets a few bullets from me as a hello. ;-) Also, If I am PREY I get a crowd of players. Think we all look for players that can best us or give a good game. When I just want to practice I can be anonymous and still be online. Also, can have some fun with it. Especially FoulPlay and #1 Tankster come to Demo Rat kill and dumpster dive and find a pretty good adversary. Beware the BOT!!!- PREY
#29
I think thats hogwash. lol Prey remember 'He Hate Me' in the WFL? He be bagging groceries now.
Az
09/23/2003 (6:51 pm)
Not my point Prey. I'm referring to Sluggies comment. Identifying players and there abilities is not what I meant.Quote: A player's choice of name can significantly change both his emjoyment of the game and his final score,
I think thats hogwash. lol Prey remember 'He Hate Me' in the WFL? He be bagging groceries now.
Az
#30
Always good to air these viewpoints in the forums as well as on the hills and plains.
Camper! The ultimate insult in think tanks. The term conjurs up the image of the demo sitting squat in the goal like a poor obese soul stuck in the outhouse. Firing as in battlemode at anything that moves near them with no regard to the strategy, style or situation in the game at the moment.
Calling someone else a camper? Them's fighting words!
I was so labelled once by a player who certainly thinks himself amongst the best. Ironically I spawned in the goal when i was killed by him and others a few times. Did it get under my skin? Sure did. The usually layed back and congenial Baba was tearing after this fellow spending way too much time seeing that he didn't get the scrum, or didn't keep it for long. It took a couple of days of games with him for me to unruffle my feathers and get back to playing smart, not vengefully.
I too like the fast paced scrum games. I like the run and the chase, but, as Az stated ones tactics must be dictated by the game in front of you. Sometimes being spawned away from the flag means you go to intercept the carrier even if that means "lurking" near the goal.
One comes down to what your style is 80-90% of the time not on those odd occasions.
I am not the prolific scorer that Tankster is (of course few are). I like to run with the scrum , sometimes I'm sucessfull usually i explode as i am approaching that glowing green goal. While I will always endevour to be the fastest, best driver on the course, my talents are really better as a blocker and shooter. These skills are not well rewarded in a Scrum game. In a Team Scrum game they can play an integral role in team victory though. On a Team Scrum I see that role as the "glue" type player . Someone who helps hold the team together and complements the more flashy and ever needed scorers.
I think the Scrum games would be better if the limit on players was perhaps 6. It would limit that chaos around the goal. While those long protracted goal area carnage and shootouts can be exhilirating at times, the randomness can be a bit too much and they certainly take away from the fluidity and grace of the long run .
Phew! Slug, you're making me long winded..what a feat!
Baba
09/23/2003 (7:07 pm)
Hey spicey little thread you have going slug, well done. Always good to air these viewpoints in the forums as well as on the hills and plains.
Camper! The ultimate insult in think tanks. The term conjurs up the image of the demo sitting squat in the goal like a poor obese soul stuck in the outhouse. Firing as in battlemode at anything that moves near them with no regard to the strategy, style or situation in the game at the moment.
Calling someone else a camper? Them's fighting words!
I was so labelled once by a player who certainly thinks himself amongst the best. Ironically I spawned in the goal when i was killed by him and others a few times. Did it get under my skin? Sure did. The usually layed back and congenial Baba was tearing after this fellow spending way too much time seeing that he didn't get the scrum, or didn't keep it for long. It took a couple of days of games with him for me to unruffle my feathers and get back to playing smart, not vengefully.
I too like the fast paced scrum games. I like the run and the chase, but, as Az stated ones tactics must be dictated by the game in front of you. Sometimes being spawned away from the flag means you go to intercept the carrier even if that means "lurking" near the goal.
One comes down to what your style is 80-90% of the time not on those odd occasions.
I am not the prolific scorer that Tankster is (of course few are). I like to run with the scrum , sometimes I'm sucessfull usually i explode as i am approaching that glowing green goal. While I will always endevour to be the fastest, best driver on the course, my talents are really better as a blocker and shooter. These skills are not well rewarded in a Scrum game. In a Team Scrum game they can play an integral role in team victory though. On a Team Scrum I see that role as the "glue" type player . Someone who helps hold the team together and complements the more flashy and ever needed scorers.
I think the Scrum games would be better if the limit on players was perhaps 6. It would limit that chaos around the goal. While those long protracted goal area carnage and shootouts can be exhilirating at times, the randomness can be a bit too much and they certainly take away from the fluidity and grace of the long run .
Phew! Slug, you're making me long winded..what a feat!
Baba
#31
- PREY
09/23/2003 (7:23 pm)
A good player can play team scum and still charge to the goal, not waiting for teammates. I've seen the coolest cuts and jags. Think the elite players, in general, can weave around most players and not bat-an-eye. Seen it too many times. I've had pretty fair luck at it also. The stray one bullet from behind just crossing the goal is the killer though. Your dead and see the ball bounching in the circle. Hate that ...- PREY
#32
sluggy
09/23/2003 (7:35 pm)
I didn't say it couldn't be done, Prey, I just don't think that charging the goal alone is a particularly efficatious tactic. But then your milage may vary.sluggy
#33
Campers.. every beginner starts that way, and then after a while they venture out and start to loath the other campers as they have not yet mastered the skill of manoeuvering around them. Once you have that skill, then campers can actually become a fun challenge. Adding that extra last obstacle to overcome having managed to successfully cross the field and evade Zaz, Jangles, Tanky and TD.
However.. that being said. Perpetual campers can annoy me as some of them seem unwilling to take the next step and attempt to leave their little sanctuary.
What can also kill the game, is if all of a sudden there are not just one or two, but 3, 4 or even 5 campers. Then, it really does just become a 'go get the scrum and well just have a bounce around at the goal and see who's lucky enough to get one in' type game.
The thieves (the Tally's of the game) are far harder to avoid than the campers, and will often score far higher. However, there seem to be very few talented thieves around these days. Did everyone else get better at avoiding them or have the Tally Ho's of the TT world just been missing out on practice sessions?
Demo's - well, they are stuck with mediums, and if you can't forgive their tactics of camping for that very reason, then you probably never tried playing scrum in a medium against strong competition.
Camping in a heavy? Well.. that's fair game too. They have one major disadvantage and that is lack of speed. Particularly when the goal respawns the other side of the map. You will probably only find the heavy at the goal 50% of the time. The rest of the time, it never made it there before the goal was scored.
The only thing that really annoys me in scrum games, are the battlemoders. However, and thankfully, this has seriously declined now that there are normally enough people for them to battle against in the battlemode servers. Most of them only came into scrum because they used to be about the only servers with human players in, and shooting bots doesnt quite provide the same pleasure.
RE: NAMES
I agree, I think someones name can have a large impact on how many shots you unleash on them. I'm not just talking about the legendary names like Dan MacDonald or FoulPlay (who you simply must fire upon when you get the chance because landing them later when it counts is very very tough) but I'm talking about the names themselves. Anyone with a vulgar name immediately gets extra ammo bursts their direction from me, likewise anyone immitating someone else or 'borrowing' their nick.
As regards 'Prey' being particuarly susceptable I can't really say. Only once did I find myself going for you more, but that was just for fun, and I deliberately came in as PREDATOR. (It was battlemode anyway)
-Z-
09/23/2003 (9:57 pm)
RE CAMPINGCampers.. every beginner starts that way, and then after a while they venture out and start to loath the other campers as they have not yet mastered the skill of manoeuvering around them. Once you have that skill, then campers can actually become a fun challenge. Adding that extra last obstacle to overcome having managed to successfully cross the field and evade Zaz, Jangles, Tanky and TD.
However.. that being said. Perpetual campers can annoy me as some of them seem unwilling to take the next step and attempt to leave their little sanctuary.
What can also kill the game, is if all of a sudden there are not just one or two, but 3, 4 or even 5 campers. Then, it really does just become a 'go get the scrum and well just have a bounce around at the goal and see who's lucky enough to get one in' type game.
The thieves (the Tally's of the game) are far harder to avoid than the campers, and will often score far higher. However, there seem to be very few talented thieves around these days. Did everyone else get better at avoiding them or have the Tally Ho's of the TT world just been missing out on practice sessions?
Demo's - well, they are stuck with mediums, and if you can't forgive their tactics of camping for that very reason, then you probably never tried playing scrum in a medium against strong competition.
Camping in a heavy? Well.. that's fair game too. They have one major disadvantage and that is lack of speed. Particularly when the goal respawns the other side of the map. You will probably only find the heavy at the goal 50% of the time. The rest of the time, it never made it there before the goal was scored.
The only thing that really annoys me in scrum games, are the battlemoders. However, and thankfully, this has seriously declined now that there are normally enough people for them to battle against in the battlemode servers. Most of them only came into scrum because they used to be about the only servers with human players in, and shooting bots doesnt quite provide the same pleasure.
RE: NAMES
I agree, I think someones name can have a large impact on how many shots you unleash on them. I'm not just talking about the legendary names like Dan MacDonald or FoulPlay (who you simply must fire upon when you get the chance because landing them later when it counts is very very tough) but I'm talking about the names themselves. Anyone with a vulgar name immediately gets extra ammo bursts their direction from me, likewise anyone immitating someone else or 'borrowing' their nick.
As regards 'Prey' being particuarly susceptable I can't really say. Only once did I find myself going for you more, but that was just for fun, and I deliberately came in as PREDATOR. (It was battlemode anyway)
-Z-
#34
My camping objection is of the extreme campers. The ones that just sit in the goal or as mentioned above when you are the only one who actually goes out after the scrum. Sports analogy seems popular so imagine a football game where the defending team all goes down to the endzone and waits for the ball to come down, what kind of game would that be? I believe that my consistently high score in scrum games demonstrates my ability to deal with campers but I still think the concept of just waiting in the goal is lame.
There was a heavy testing server where tweaks and changes where tried out. Maybe we could get Bravetree to put it back up and try a few of the suggestions (i.e.; larger goal, jump pads in the goal). We could all then gain some first hand experience and perhaps some insight on how to deal with these issues (Maybe it is perfect and we just don't know it!).
Heavy tanks in scrum-there seems to be two types of Heavy players. One actually tries to score, I tend to cut them slack for beelining to the goal because they are so slow (I can usually beat them there). The other is the Heavy that becomes the "Universal Goalie" and rather than try to score just shoots the other players.
Battlemode in scrum- I have no problem with getting shot up when I am between the scrum and other players. My objection is to the players that will continue to chase me and shoot at me even when I am headed away from the scrum (those players will tend to get a little personal attention).
Blah, Blah, Blah..... At least the game is fun 90% of the time and the other 10% I just exercise my freedom of choice and go do something else.
09/24/2003 (5:47 am)
...And Bill, you say, camping isn't playing. What makes it not playing? Is it because having to avoid defenders makes it a bit more difficult for you to score? If so then you may have a skills problem that you are trying to blame on the defenders...My camping objection is of the extreme campers. The ones that just sit in the goal or as mentioned above when you are the only one who actually goes out after the scrum. Sports analogy seems popular so imagine a football game where the defending team all goes down to the endzone and waits for the ball to come down, what kind of game would that be? I believe that my consistently high score in scrum games demonstrates my ability to deal with campers but I still think the concept of just waiting in the goal is lame.
There was a heavy testing server where tweaks and changes where tried out. Maybe we could get Bravetree to put it back up and try a few of the suggestions (i.e.; larger goal, jump pads in the goal). We could all then gain some first hand experience and perhaps some insight on how to deal with these issues (Maybe it is perfect and we just don't know it!).
Heavy tanks in scrum-there seems to be two types of Heavy players. One actually tries to score, I tend to cut them slack for beelining to the goal because they are so slow (I can usually beat them there). The other is the Heavy that becomes the "Universal Goalie" and rather than try to score just shoots the other players.
Battlemode in scrum- I have no problem with getting shot up when I am between the scrum and other players. My objection is to the players that will continue to chase me and shoot at me even when I am headed away from the scrum (those players will tend to get a little personal attention).
Blah, Blah, Blah..... At least the game is fun 90% of the time and the other 10% I just exercise my freedom of choice and go do something else.
#35
09/24/2003 (8:13 am)
Umm, alliances in non-team games? (clears throat) dunno what you are referencing here... any examples?
#36
A NFL endzone is 4800 square feet even if we give the average player a whoping 20 sguare feet coverage area it adds up to 220 covered square footage leaving 4580 square feet undefended...
That is why they don't gang up in the endzone.. because it is not tactically sound, not because its not fun to watch..
The goal in TT is different is is approximately 100 square feet. 1-2 tanks can cover that pretty darn easy.
I do however understand your point. Extreme campers are a pain.
They are easily defeated.. but that one time out of ten that they get you after you have worked so hard to bring the scrum across the map will make even the most laid back amoung us scream.
The lack of easy communication in TT is the biggest hamper to team tactics. Some macro chat lines would help... being able to make our own macro chat scroll text file would help even more.
Tank Dork
09/24/2003 (8:54 am)
Bill.. very bad example you listed above...A NFL endzone is 4800 square feet even if we give the average player a whoping 20 sguare feet coverage area it adds up to 220 covered square footage leaving 4580 square feet undefended...
That is why they don't gang up in the endzone.. because it is not tactically sound, not because its not fun to watch..
The goal in TT is different is is approximately 100 square feet. 1-2 tanks can cover that pretty darn easy.
I do however understand your point. Extreme campers are a pain.
They are easily defeated.. but that one time out of ten that they get you after you have worked so hard to bring the scrum across the map will make even the most laid back amoung us scream.
The lack of easy communication in TT is the biggest hamper to team tactics. Some macro chat lines would help... being able to make our own macro chat scroll text file would help even more.
Tank Dork
#37
>Dude, no ill will from me. It's all rhetoric in my opinion.
No problem at all. Sorry if my initial response seemed hard. I do take a bit of offense at "thrill killing" mainly because as a heavy player I've been accused of camping and thrill killed often when it's obvious a heavy cannot play like a light or medium tank. :) BUt, yeah, there's no ill will here either.
>In fact, Dementus is a welcomed sight for any team that knows his skill in the heavy.
Thanks for the compliment. I'm not the best by any means, or at least don't feel so lately. I think I'm being targeted a bit more of late, but despite some frustration I welcome the challenge...
Which brings me to the issue of names and targeting. I can agree with the name bit. I'd also like to add that choice of tank can affect how often you're targeted as well. I found that as a heavy in a game with a lot of Demo players, I would get chased a lot. I think they think you get extra points for taking out the big tank or something. :)
09/24/2003 (9:17 am)
@jangles who said:>Dude, no ill will from me. It's all rhetoric in my opinion.
No problem at all. Sorry if my initial response seemed hard. I do take a bit of offense at "thrill killing" mainly because as a heavy player I've been accused of camping and thrill killed often when it's obvious a heavy cannot play like a light or medium tank. :) BUt, yeah, there's no ill will here either.
>In fact, Dementus is a welcomed sight for any team that knows his skill in the heavy.
Thanks for the compliment. I'm not the best by any means, or at least don't feel so lately. I think I'm being targeted a bit more of late, but despite some frustration I welcome the challenge...
Which brings me to the issue of names and targeting. I can agree with the name bit. I'd also like to add that choice of tank can affect how often you're targeted as well. I found that as a heavy in a game with a lot of Demo players, I would get chased a lot. I think they think you get extra points for taking out the big tank or something. :)
#38
I suspect the primary reason that Demos target heavies is that they are easier to hit. Sometime in my first couple weeks of playing I spent a couple of sessions on-line in a medium practicing off-angle, deflection, shots at opponents. Hitting a heavy even from across the full length of the map, whether it was standing or im motion, was a rather trivial exercise. Hitting a light even at medium ranges took a bit of concentration. Hitting a moving light at long range, particularly one moving lateraly was a study in frustration.
Though the stats were cranked in Rev. 1.1 I think that there is still a light tank dominance, but not the overwhelming dominance it showed in Rev 1.0.2. This shows up significantly in Battlemode. A lone heavy is virtually defenseless against only two lights but performs much more strongly against two mediums. Three lights versus two mediums is a trivial excercise for the lights.
Some of this dominance is because lights can return to the scene of the battle so much more quickly after they have been eliminated. In a two medium versus three lights contest an eliminated light can likely rejoin the conflict before a second light has been lost. An eliminated medium is seldom able to return before another has been lost. This gives the lights a multiplying factor that the other platforms don't enjoy and is what makes light tank rat packs so effective on the offence, particulary since so many players seem to recognize an all out Banzai the only form of combat.
This last is where some tactical sense is important.
Exemplar: Last evening three mediums and a light versus a rat pack of lights in a team battlemode gave a pretty good account of themselves as long as they hung together. The light was effective sniping at the flankers and the mediums were able to direct a devastating converging fire on the attackers. Contrariwise, whenever the light, or one of the mediums, rushed off into a mano-a-mano, the rat pack would exploit theweakness in their defense and destroy the mediums quite easily.
TEAM BATTLEMODE: Stick together. When fighting rat packs it 's important that the larger tanks move together and to stay together.
Use the available cover, rocks, trees, depression and elevations.
Concentrate your fire. Converging fire from even two mediums will quickly eliminate a light.
The medium is still the least fair of the three platforms hence the most difficult to use. It hasn't enough armor to challange heavies and hasn't the speed, or the maneuvarability to contend with lights.
A couple of tweaks might alter this.
1) Delayed respawn. A respawn delay time inversely proportional to size should reduce the light tank multiplying factor.
2) Different ranges for the weapons on the three platforms should make combined arms a more reasonable option.
sluggy
09/24/2003 (10:34 am)
@DementusI suspect the primary reason that Demos target heavies is that they are easier to hit. Sometime in my first couple weeks of playing I spent a couple of sessions on-line in a medium practicing off-angle, deflection, shots at opponents. Hitting a heavy even from across the full length of the map, whether it was standing or im motion, was a rather trivial exercise. Hitting a light even at medium ranges took a bit of concentration. Hitting a moving light at long range, particularly one moving lateraly was a study in frustration.
Though the stats were cranked in Rev. 1.1 I think that there is still a light tank dominance, but not the overwhelming dominance it showed in Rev 1.0.2. This shows up significantly in Battlemode. A lone heavy is virtually defenseless against only two lights but performs much more strongly against two mediums. Three lights versus two mediums is a trivial excercise for the lights.
Some of this dominance is because lights can return to the scene of the battle so much more quickly after they have been eliminated. In a two medium versus three lights contest an eliminated light can likely rejoin the conflict before a second light has been lost. An eliminated medium is seldom able to return before another has been lost. This gives the lights a multiplying factor that the other platforms don't enjoy and is what makes light tank rat packs so effective on the offence, particulary since so many players seem to recognize an all out Banzai the only form of combat.
This last is where some tactical sense is important.
Exemplar: Last evening three mediums and a light versus a rat pack of lights in a team battlemode gave a pretty good account of themselves as long as they hung together. The light was effective sniping at the flankers and the mediums were able to direct a devastating converging fire on the attackers. Contrariwise, whenever the light, or one of the mediums, rushed off into a mano-a-mano, the rat pack would exploit theweakness in their defense and destroy the mediums quite easily.
TEAM BATTLEMODE: Stick together. When fighting rat packs it 's important that the larger tanks move together and to stay together.
Use the available cover, rocks, trees, depression and elevations.
Concentrate your fire. Converging fire from even two mediums will quickly eliminate a light.
The medium is still the least fair of the three platforms hence the most difficult to use. It hasn't enough armor to challange heavies and hasn't the speed, or the maneuvarability to contend with lights.
A couple of tweaks might alter this.
1) Delayed respawn. A respawn delay time inversely proportional to size should reduce the light tank multiplying factor.
2) Different ranges for the weapons on the three platforms should make combined arms a more reasonable option.
sluggy
Tom Cutter
Thought the skins idea of football teams was so on target. Wish I could see them in games.
Also, the idea of quick death for campers in the circle was a good program suggestion for modification.
There is another side to playing with great players. You can never have a run to the goal without death before ya get there. At that point ya change tactics and do the jangy "Tally" swipe. Really runs the points up & ya live longer. Don't really like this tactic, but I use it when it is 3 or 4 to one.
I've seen a lot of new players who are getting good, but still don't do the zig-zag evasive moves to the goal. If a player like fleaBiscuit (sp?) did this, he would be one of the elite scorers. Also think the best players all have good ISP access, but .... no it is really skill with a optical mouse. Right #1 Tankster? ;-)
- PREY