One Continuous Whole
by Chris Suiter · in Torque Game Engine · 09/17/2003 (6:38 am) · 6 replies
Howdy, I'm relatively new to the GG forums, and this is my first attempt to glean a significant amount of help from the community, so please, go easy on me. :-)
So, first of all this isn't a "How do I... ?" thread, or a "Is it possible to... ?" thread. I'm not looking for a handout. I simply want to present a design challenge our team is facing, and see which of our proposed solutions is most feasible to those that are much more experienced with the capabilities & strengths of the TGE. Obviously 'anything' is possible given unlimited resources of time. But none of us have that, so I'm just curious as to what some in the community think is the best direction to proceed.
I have read through dozens of threads in regards to Terrain Manager in these forums, and while I'm not sure I've read them all, I read all the ones I could find. I've also seen the Dev Snapshots for TM. However, I can't seem to find any links to the TerrainManager resource itself... now, I'm sure it's there, but it's well hidden from all of my many searches.
Is this the case, or is there a large part of the puzzle I'm missing? If development has stopped is it possible to get an unfinished version to at least observe the steps taken in this direction?
Unfortunately, from reading the TM threads I'm not even sure if TM is the solution to our particular problem. To quote, J. Donavan Stanley,
Unfortunately, with our design proposals having multiple missions linked together is what we need, the terrain is secondary. But, seeing as TM is the only step in this particular direction we're aware of, it seems like the best place to start...
For our first TGE-based game, my team is creating a single-player RPG-type game. We are setting it in about 150 square miles of open country. Now, given the nature of the game design, having this terrain be 1 continuous whole is imperative. A series of differing locations is not an option. So creating a solution to the issue of gigantic terrains is of Prime concern to us. Without this, we pretty much don't have a game.
... continued due to space restrictions. ;-)
So, first of all this isn't a "How do I... ?" thread, or a "Is it possible to... ?" thread. I'm not looking for a handout. I simply want to present a design challenge our team is facing, and see which of our proposed solutions is most feasible to those that are much more experienced with the capabilities & strengths of the TGE. Obviously 'anything' is possible given unlimited resources of time. But none of us have that, so I'm just curious as to what some in the community think is the best direction to proceed.
I have read through dozens of threads in regards to Terrain Manager in these forums, and while I'm not sure I've read them all, I read all the ones I could find. I've also seen the Dev Snapshots for TM. However, I can't seem to find any links to the TerrainManager resource itself... now, I'm sure it's there, but it's well hidden from all of my many searches.
Is this the case, or is there a large part of the puzzle I'm missing? If development has stopped is it possible to get an unfinished version to at least observe the steps taken in this direction?
Unfortunately, from reading the TM threads I'm not even sure if TM is the solution to our particular problem. To quote, J. Donavan Stanley,
Quote:TerrainManager allows you to have multiple blocks of TERRAIN per mission, stitched together in grid. It doesn't allow you to have multiple missions arraigned in a grid.
Unfortunately, with our design proposals having multiple missions linked together is what we need, the terrain is secondary. But, seeing as TM is the only step in this particular direction we're aware of, it seems like the best place to start...
For our first TGE-based game, my team is creating a single-player RPG-type game. We are setting it in about 150 square miles of open country. Now, given the nature of the game design, having this terrain be 1 continuous whole is imperative. A series of differing locations is not an option. So creating a solution to the issue of gigantic terrains is of Prime concern to us. Without this, we pretty much don't have a game.
... continued due to space restrictions. ;-)
#2
At www.GORPE.com you can find the latest TM Patch #18 and download it from there. You have to register to get access to the download area.
It will also give some info on Mr. Donovan focus right now. Like yourselves me and my team are working on a RPG kinda blend between old school and new technology.
I got a thread talking about utilizing torque tech for making a RPG along the lines of FF-style games.
Like you guys the first thing were focusing on is getting the entire physical world into the engine. I been studying how to use TerrainManager because our World map is big and I want to convey a sense of travel and moving from one region to another
It all takes place on single large continent. As a artist first I dont mind designing a world rock by rock :)
The battle engine is the tricky part. Were going to take a lot of the twitch out of the FPS portion of Torque and make it FF style choose a attack and click. After seeing the new demo I know it can be done. How? because the options you get for viewing the Orge animations is exactly like I want to control my player.
Moving to dungeons and secret locations will be done with Map Triggers there is a resource for a teleport map trigger. Just search for triggers.
Anyway our RPG may not be quite like the one you guys are working on :) But most of us love our Anime and Manga. So our stuff is a bit bias heh.
Anime Weekend is approaching for Atlanta so were going to lose focus this upcoming weekend LOL. Hope I helped you some :)
09/21/2003 (8:30 pm)
Hi ChrisAt www.GORPE.com you can find the latest TM Patch #18 and download it from there. You have to register to get access to the download area.
It will also give some info on Mr. Donovan focus right now. Like yourselves me and my team are working on a RPG kinda blend between old school and new technology.
I got a thread talking about utilizing torque tech for making a RPG along the lines of FF-style games.
Like you guys the first thing were focusing on is getting the entire physical world into the engine. I been studying how to use TerrainManager because our World map is big and I want to convey a sense of travel and moving from one region to another
It all takes place on single large continent. As a artist first I dont mind designing a world rock by rock :)
The battle engine is the tricky part. Were going to take a lot of the twitch out of the FPS portion of Torque and make it FF style choose a attack and click. After seeing the new demo I know it can be done. How? because the options you get for viewing the Orge animations is exactly like I want to control my player.
Moving to dungeons and secret locations will be done with Map Triggers there is a resource for a teleport map trigger. Just search for triggers.
Anyway our RPG may not be quite like the one you guys are working on :) But most of us love our Anime and Manga. So our stuff is a bit bias heh.
Anime Weekend is approaching for Atlanta so were going to lose focus this upcoming weekend LOL. Hope I helped you some :)
#3
Hope this helps as well.
EDIT: The version there includes the Build 18 patch. You should use the DR_1_0 tag for GORPE to get a stable version.
10/08/2003 (5:12 am)
Just a followup. If you're following GORPE then you'll know this but just in case. The GORPE code including the latest version of TM is available via cvs by changing the normal path of /cvs/torque to /cvs/gorpeHope this helps as well.
EDIT: The version there includes the Build 18 patch. You should use the DR_1_0 tag for GORPE to get a stable version.
#4
10/08/2003 (8:07 am)
Is there way way of put the GORPE terrain manger in the new head of torque without using th .patch file
#5
10/08/2003 (9:46 am)
Do it by hand.
#6
It includes premlinary support for paging so you server can host a HUGE grid and the clinet only has to keep 9 blocks in RAM. Right now support is there for loading/unloading terrain blocks and their lightmaps. Eventually static items on the terrain will also be paged in and out on demand.
The waterblocks now work correctly with TM as well. Previously the depth effects were out of whack due to the waterblock only dealing with the first terrain block.
Lots of other minor bug fixes as well.
Right now I'm not activly working on TM, I'm focusing my attentions elsewhere. I'll happily accept patches against the GORPE tree that enhance TM.
10/08/2003 (4:36 pm)
The GORPE source tree contains a much more complete TerrainManager implementation that what you'll get even with patch 18. It includes premlinary support for paging so you server can host a HUGE grid and the clinet only has to keep 9 blocks in RAM. Right now support is there for loading/unloading terrain blocks and their lightmaps. Eventually static items on the terrain will also be paged in and out on demand.
The waterblocks now work correctly with TM as well. Previously the depth effects were out of whack due to the waterblock only dealing with the first terrain block.
Lots of other minor bug fixes as well.
Right now I'm not activly working on TM, I'm focusing my attentions elsewhere. I'll happily accept patches against the GORPE tree that enhance TM.
Torque Owner Chris Suiter
*Solution #1*
Dynamic Mission Paging - simply put as the Player approaches the extent of the current mission, the next mission will be loaded and the player is able to travel between the two. Similar to what is proposed here - Terrain Paging, but our solution would apply to entire missions, not just the terrain.
Pros - From the player's perspective this is the best solution as it creates the illusion of 1 continuous, gigantic world, as load times would be kept to a minimum, if they existed at all. ANd so is very attractive for that reason.
Cons - This may not even be possible given how TGE handles missions. An,if it is possible will most likely be very challenging to implement. If the world were perfect this would be the answer.
*Solution #2*
The easy way out - the entire world would be cut up and each block would be assigned it's own mission. And as a player approached the edge of a block he would simply exit the current mission and be placed in the new mission.
Pros - Simple & easy.
Cons - There would be no continuity since not only would the player have to deal with repeated load times, the landscape would shift as he traveled from one mission to the next. Only a last, last, last, resort.
*Solution #3*
Integrating Terrain Manger - this is basically the same as #2. However we would try to integrate Terrain Manager into the mix. So instead of having each mission having a single terrain tile, repeated infinitely. Each mission would have it's own terrain tile stitched together with the 8 surrounding tiles. So, even though there would still be load times between missions, the visual continuity would remain.
Pros - An excellent compromise, IMO. Entirely possible to implement and helps maintain the illusion of 1 continuous world, while still keeping the dev cycle on course.
Cons - As stated above, not entirely sure if TM is even around anymore, and if it is, what state it's in. It's entirely possible we would have to start from scratch. But even if we do, it seems far easier to attempt this, than to attempt #1.
So, there you have it. I hope this all makes sense. Please, if you have some thoughts that would enlighten us a bit, please feel free to share. Heck, maybe my assessments are totally wrong. As someone new to Torque that's entirely possible. Or maybe we're not seeing another, more elegant, solution... who knows? In any case, help is appreciated, so THANK YOU in advance.