BraveTree Responds
by Joe Maruschak · in ThinkTanks · 09/16/2003 (11:33 am) · 25 replies
Whew. Back from vacation and it took me a few days to read everything that has been posted. I am going to attempt to respond to all the concerns that have been rasied in the past few weeks, provide context for our response, and outline a rough roadmap for the future.
Context
BraveTree is a small company. 3 guys. Me (Joe Maruschak), Clark Fagot, and Mike Jahnke. When you refer to 'the developers', you are referring to us. That is 3 guys doing all the development, business, support, etc...
Clark has been spending the last month or so preparing builds for distribution channels and on the Active X version of ThinkTanks. We are up on shockwave.com right now, and you will be seeing us go up on other channels in the future. This is a necessary step for us to grow the community and generate enough revenue to make it possible to make additions to the game.
ThinkTanks is selling well, but we are not yet in a place where we can totally forget about paying work. We have taken on a few small contract jobs that can keep one of us occupied from a day to a week. When one of us is working on a contract job, we are not working on ThinkTanks.
The explosion of new players and the enthusiasm of the community took us a little by surprise. We knew it was a fun game, but the overwhelming growth in the past month is exactly that; overwhelming. We are not yet into a postion to hire new employees, but we are definitely being strained in terms of resources to do everything that we would like to do and that we feel the game needs.
I read everything posted. The volume of posts is starting to take up a significant portion of my time. We want to be accessible to the community, but it is starting to interfere with our ability to move forward and work on new things (either another game or on upgrades to ThinkTanks.
Modding
As a very young company, with ThinkTanks being our first game, we are concerned about the public perception of our company and our games. We do not want the first impression someone has of our game to be a poorly done, poorly balanced mod with art that is not up to par with the released title.
Internally, we feel as though we are still in the release phase, getting the game out into the channels and growing the user base. At this point in time we fear that mods may have a negative impact on sales and slow community growth. The current rash of modding does not seem to have had a negative impact on sales (nor has it appeared to increase sales). We are proceeding very carefully in this area, as we want to make sure we do it right.
The rash of mods as of late is forcing us to accelerate our plans in this area. The plan for us is to make it so the new player can only see the default games, and by flipping a switch in the prefs, one can then see all the mods. Once this is in, we will feel comfortable that the new user is experiencing the game as it was designed, and also allow for modding. With this in place, we would then feel comfortable releasing the scripts, the terrain editor, and possibly the tank models to the community.
Another concern of ours is support. We do not have a dedicated support staff, so having others introduce bugs into the game (in mods) is something we have to be very careful about. We also want to make sure the tools are in a good enough state to release to the public. Right now they are pretty touchy when you are using them, so we want to make sure they are stable enough that we don't spend a lot of time doing support for the modding tools.
As I have noted above, we are still working on creating different builds for the various distribution channels. Once these are done we can focus some energy on getting the game 'mod ready'.
Context
BraveTree is a small company. 3 guys. Me (Joe Maruschak), Clark Fagot, and Mike Jahnke. When you refer to 'the developers', you are referring to us. That is 3 guys doing all the development, business, support, etc...
Clark has been spending the last month or so preparing builds for distribution channels and on the Active X version of ThinkTanks. We are up on shockwave.com right now, and you will be seeing us go up on other channels in the future. This is a necessary step for us to grow the community and generate enough revenue to make it possible to make additions to the game.
ThinkTanks is selling well, but we are not yet in a place where we can totally forget about paying work. We have taken on a few small contract jobs that can keep one of us occupied from a day to a week. When one of us is working on a contract job, we are not working on ThinkTanks.
The explosion of new players and the enthusiasm of the community took us a little by surprise. We knew it was a fun game, but the overwhelming growth in the past month is exactly that; overwhelming. We are not yet into a postion to hire new employees, but we are definitely being strained in terms of resources to do everything that we would like to do and that we feel the game needs.
I read everything posted. The volume of posts is starting to take up a significant portion of my time. We want to be accessible to the community, but it is starting to interfere with our ability to move forward and work on new things (either another game or on upgrades to ThinkTanks.
Modding
As a very young company, with ThinkTanks being our first game, we are concerned about the public perception of our company and our games. We do not want the first impression someone has of our game to be a poorly done, poorly balanced mod with art that is not up to par with the released title.
Internally, we feel as though we are still in the release phase, getting the game out into the channels and growing the user base. At this point in time we fear that mods may have a negative impact on sales and slow community growth. The current rash of modding does not seem to have had a negative impact on sales (nor has it appeared to increase sales). We are proceeding very carefully in this area, as we want to make sure we do it right.
The rash of mods as of late is forcing us to accelerate our plans in this area. The plan for us is to make it so the new player can only see the default games, and by flipping a switch in the prefs, one can then see all the mods. Once this is in, we will feel comfortable that the new user is experiencing the game as it was designed, and also allow for modding. With this in place, we would then feel comfortable releasing the scripts, the terrain editor, and possibly the tank models to the community.
Another concern of ours is support. We do not have a dedicated support staff, so having others introduce bugs into the game (in mods) is something we have to be very careful about. We also want to make sure the tools are in a good enough state to release to the public. Right now they are pretty touchy when you are using them, so we want to make sure they are stable enough that we don't spend a lot of time doing support for the modding tools.
As I have noted above, we are still working on creating different builds for the various distribution channels. Once these are done we can focus some energy on getting the game 'mod ready'.
#2
I actually think modding, if effective, may help sales in the future. With people figuring out new secrets, like -z-'s scoring CTF map, may infleunce demos to buy, so they to can learn these secrets.
So, when will some new levels be realeased so I can take a break from modding? :)
Set up a community site? Nooooooo.... my forums will die... more then they are now.... lol. I dont care.
Nathan Gibney (www.geocities.com/nathan_ttfs)
"Amazing how so few people can effects thousands"
09/16/2003 (1:49 pm)
Whew. Thank god I'm not effecting sales. (Im serious. Im not being sarcastic)I actually think modding, if effective, may help sales in the future. With people figuring out new secrets, like -z-'s scoring CTF map, may infleunce demos to buy, so they to can learn these secrets.
So, when will some new levels be realeased so I can take a break from modding? :)
Set up a community site? Nooooooo.... my forums will die... more then they are now.... lol. I dont care.
Nathan Gibney (www.geocities.com/nathan_ttfs)
"Amazing how so few people can effects thousands"
#3
I had no idea Brave tree consisted of 3 people by all means business before pleasure. I am just throwing Ideas out in which would improve the already awsome game you guys have created. I am a freelance Graphic Artist and would be happy to help you guys in anyway I can my fees are reasonable and I do quality work as you can see on my website.
www.hankstagraphix.com
But back to the subject I believe I speak for others when I say Think Tanks is an awsome game and we would be willing to pay more for some of the ideas(view mode) that have been brought up these passed few weeks.
Thank You for listening
Serious Gamer
Henry Rivas
#1 TANKSTER
09/16/2003 (3:52 pm)
Hello Mr MaruschakHow was your vacation I hope you had time to relax.I had no idea Brave tree consisted of 3 people by all means business before pleasure. I am just throwing Ideas out in which would improve the already awsome game you guys have created. I am a freelance Graphic Artist and would be happy to help you guys in anyway I can my fees are reasonable and I do quality work as you can see on my website.
www.hankstagraphix.com
But back to the subject I believe I speak for others when I say Think Tanks is an awsome game and we would be willing to pay more for some of the ideas(view mode) that have been brought up these passed few weeks.
Thank You for listening
Serious Gamer
Henry Rivas
#1 TANKSTER
#4
Great going guys!
I think the mod view switch is a good idea, I am not so sure about free releasing the terrain and tank editors. While i really, really would like terrain and tank editors, i actually do not want you to give them out free. I think that if you did, all the games would become modded and almost none of the experienced players would be in the normal games. This would not be good for newbies. I am also worried about supertanks- what with big ufos that can cross fog, and all sorts of things, i have to ask: Would modded tanks be client side or server? While they would be cool but pointless client side, the effect on server side could actually be negative. An immature player could get carried away and end up with a sort of super-destructo tank that would completely ruin all the games it entered. I am not familiar with the whole programming thing, i do not know how appropriate my questions are. I am just a little worried.
On the other hand, i do think that if you released the editors for a price (which you might have been planning to do anyway) that it could be a solution. I do not know what sort of price would be appropriate (again limited knowledge) but a terrain/tank editor under 50$ and i have bought it already. This would cut down on random usage and would really help keep modding down. Another thing could be to restrict the editor to certain limits. For instance, no tanks over or under a certain size, no maps over or under too. No super kill weopons. If this is too restrictive, i don't know if you can (limited knowledge again) but if you could perhaps make like a law that only lets tanks within certain specifications to enter your games. I am guessing that we would all have to update for the mod-visible button anyway (well, maybe not, guess it only affects new users huh) but if we did i am presuming it would at least be physically possible to do something like that.
Those are just some random ideas, I am only in seventh grade so don't take it out too hard on me please lol
*
09/16/2003 (4:17 pm)
Wow, three people in Bravetree! I had no idea!Great going guys!
I think the mod view switch is a good idea, I am not so sure about free releasing the terrain and tank editors. While i really, really would like terrain and tank editors, i actually do not want you to give them out free. I think that if you did, all the games would become modded and almost none of the experienced players would be in the normal games. This would not be good for newbies. I am also worried about supertanks- what with big ufos that can cross fog, and all sorts of things, i have to ask: Would modded tanks be client side or server? While they would be cool but pointless client side, the effect on server side could actually be negative. An immature player could get carried away and end up with a sort of super-destructo tank that would completely ruin all the games it entered. I am not familiar with the whole programming thing, i do not know how appropriate my questions are. I am just a little worried.
On the other hand, i do think that if you released the editors for a price (which you might have been planning to do anyway) that it could be a solution. I do not know what sort of price would be appropriate (again limited knowledge) but a terrain/tank editor under 50$ and i have bought it already. This would cut down on random usage and would really help keep modding down. Another thing could be to restrict the editor to certain limits. For instance, no tanks over or under a certain size, no maps over or under too. No super kill weopons. If this is too restrictive, i don't know if you can (limited knowledge again) but if you could perhaps make like a law that only lets tanks within certain specifications to enter your games. I am guessing that we would all have to update for the mod-visible button anyway (well, maybe not, guess it only affects new users huh) but if we did i am presuming it would at least be physically possible to do something like that.
Those are just some random ideas, I am only in seventh grade so don't take it out too hard on me please lol
*
#5
09/16/2003 (4:29 pm)
I knew all along. lol. just look at their website bios. www.bravetree.com
#6
We will play patiently while you make gaming history.
Thank you!!
MAXCR
09/16/2003 (5:36 pm)
The Amazing Bravetree Trio,We will play patiently while you make gaming history.
Thank you!!
MAXCR
#7
I myself, mod using notepad, luck, and some trial and error.
A real time editior would be nice, but I wouldn't buy it. I'm perfectly happy editing mis files with notepad.
09/16/2003 (6:13 pm)
*, making an editor would not curb the modding.I myself, mod using notepad, luck, and some trial and error.
A real time editior would be nice, but I wouldn't buy it. I'm perfectly happy editing mis files with notepad.
#8
09/17/2003 (12:18 pm)
Good to see you joe
#9
09/19/2003 (7:56 pm)
Kinda late, but if you need help with a community site or a support person to help people, i could do something. in fact people who have had experience with the game and know what it's made of and everything, could probably be a big help. Just want this game to keep up the good work! :D
#10
-Michael
09/20/2003 (6:04 am)
I didnt know there was only three, i figured there were 5 or 6 of you. The amazing Bravetrio. :) Anyway, like nathan said, im perfectly happy editing my maps in notepad with trial and error it kinda puts a little fun (or stress) into it. So either way im happy, ill buy the editor (or download it if it is free) or i can do it the old fasion way like i am now.-Michael
#11
EDIT: never mind, I have it working now
09/20/2003 (6:11 am)
I need a little help with bot names. No matter how many files I edit, they always stay the same. What do I need to do? I edited both prefs files in server and client!EDIT: never mind, I have it working now
#13
Asterisk (worried)
09/20/2003 (9:02 am)
Okay, I have two probs. One, I can't change the bots names either. Two, whenever i create a game, no one else can see it. The value in prefs.cs is set to always and I don't think I'm behind a firewall or anything. Developers, I love editing maps but if no one can see them it kind of takes the fun out of it.Asterisk (worried)
#15
If you are having difficulty editing what is out there now, then you are on your own. We do not have the resources to support questions related to modifying this version of the game.
It was our intent to release the tools for editing when the time was right and our resources allowed us to do it in a way where we could adequately support it. We are not there yet, but we are working on it.
09/20/2003 (9:31 am)
We have not yet released an editor, and we actually released the game to make it difficult to edit any of the maps. If you are having difficulty editing what is out there now, then you are on your own. We do not have the resources to support questions related to modifying this version of the game.
It was our intent to release the tools for editing when the time was right and our resources allowed us to do it in a way where we could adequately support it. We are not there yet, but we are working on it.
#16
Is it legal to sell people personalized maps? If it is not, I will gladly pull that service from my site.
09/20/2003 (12:17 pm)
Joe, I have a "legal" question for you:Is it legal to sell people personalized maps? If it is not, I will gladly pull that service from my site.
#17
Legally speaking, you would be in violation of the EULA. We are not overly litigious, so we are not going to crack down on anyone for distibutingh skins or 'mods' unless the distribution starts to create a problem for us financially or somehow degrades our companies reputation.
It is generally considered to be poor form to attempt to profit by selling services based on someone elses software unless the additions provide value or extend the product in such a way as to be considered new products themselves and that the new product does not violate or infringe on anyone else's copyright,.
All that being said.. this is a free market economy, so do whatever you think is morally and ethically sound. We do ask that you be courteous and be careful to not mis-represent our company in any way or distribute anything that one would consider questionable. Questionable items would include pornography, profanity, or work which infringes on someone copyright or trademark (such as company logos, movie titles, and sports teams).
It would also be nice to include a statement making clear that any such modifications are not authorized or endorsed by BraveTree (we don't want to go to court for violating anyone's copyrights)
09/20/2003 (1:18 pm)
From the EULAQuote:You may not modify, translate, disassemble, reverse engineer, decompile, or create derivative works based upon the Software.
Legally speaking, you would be in violation of the EULA. We are not overly litigious, so we are not going to crack down on anyone for distibutingh skins or 'mods' unless the distribution starts to create a problem for us financially or somehow degrades our companies reputation.
It is generally considered to be poor form to attempt to profit by selling services based on someone elses software unless the additions provide value or extend the product in such a way as to be considered new products themselves and that the new product does not violate or infringe on anyone else's copyright,.
All that being said.. this is a free market economy, so do whatever you think is morally and ethically sound. We do ask that you be courteous and be careful to not mis-represent our company in any way or distribute anything that one would consider questionable. Questionable items would include pornography, profanity, or work which infringes on someone copyright or trademark (such as company logos, movie titles, and sports teams).
It would also be nice to include a statement making clear that any such modifications are not authorized or endorsed by BraveTree (we don't want to go to court for violating anyone's copyrights)
#18
(i thought was anoying but he is just plain ANOYING) DoomTank101TT
09/20/2003 (1:39 pm)
Phoenix is realy anoying(i thought was anoying but he is just plain ANOYING) DoomTank101TT
#19
Our already distressed scrum league is now even homeless!
There are currently NO team scrum servers to be found.. we can't play at all.
Thanks,
Tank Dork
09/20/2003 (1:43 pm)
Joe.. any word on the homeland servers...Our already distressed scrum league is now even homeless!
There are currently NO team scrum servers to be found.. we can't play at all.
Thanks,
Tank Dork
#20
Although I suppose this question should go under customer support. Sigh.
*
09/20/2003 (2:14 pm)
Joe, you don't have to answer the bot names question, but it really would be great if you could tell me some possible reasons why none of the normal games I create ever show up on the online server list.Although I suppose this question should go under customer support. Sigh.
*
Torque Owner Joe Maruschak
Wow. The ThinkTanks forums have started taking over GarageGames. There have been a few posts in the developer forums regarding this (even a flame war that I missed while I was on vacation). We were not prepared for the really rapid increase in the number of posts.
BraveTree has no control over the forums here on GarageGames. The forums are a service that GarageGames provides to developers that publish with them. As we are small and don't really have the time or resources to set up, run, and moderate our own forums, we think that GarageGames providing this serivce for us is fantastic. The volume of posts and the beginning of all the armies and leagues leads us to believe that we may have to set up a community site dedicated to ThinkTanks.
GarageGames is trying to grow a gaming community. GarageGames will eventually be the place where one comes to check out the latest and greatest in independent games. There are some unique things going on here. One, the developers of ThinkTanks and it's community can interact and two, other developers can read what the community is saying about our game and learn from what we are doing right (and what problems we are having). This will ultimately improve the quality of games for the end user in the ever growing GarageGames community.
The guys at GarageGames are aware that there are some issues with the forums, and they are going to be taking steps to correct it. I don't think it is the #1 thing on their to-do lists. Remember that ThinkTanks is just one of several titles (from seveeral developers) that needs attention. It is the success of ThinkTanks and the rapid growth of the community that is causing the problem. It may be a little clunky right now, but it works. Be patient and work with us to help us evolve what we have now into something that is more useful to the ThinkTanks community and the thousands of developers here.
The Community
We are overwhlmed with the enthusiasm of the community. We want to do whatever we can to facilitate it's growth. I will qualify this by pointing out that whatever 'we can' do is dictated by the sales of the game and our need to continue to sell more units of ThinkTanks, do contract work, and start our next game. Building the community is something that we think is of great importance, but at the moment, we need to worry about how to pay the rent, so we cannot devote 100% of our resources toward making a community website at this point in time.
The Future
We are very excited about the prospects for the future for ThinkTanks. We had always hoped it would do well, and it feels good when it actaully starts to happen. Continue to work with us to help make this game all that it can be. Keep posting and we will keep reading. We are reading and paying attention to everything. Remember, we are 3 guys, and we can't be everywhere at once, but we are paying attention.