Bravetree Jetbike and Car...

#1 I do not work for Bravetree nor am I affiliated with them in any way, shape or form. But I can tell you that the price for the models is very just considering all the time and effort that is required to go and make something like that, these guys need to eat too. Also, as you stated these models are not just items that you can drop into the game and use for testing, the are also working examples that you can use to create your own items from, as such they are invaluable tools for learning. You might think that they are not worth it, but there are plenty of people who will disagree with you.

In regards to the UVWs, there are multiple ways that you can create UVWs and none of them are wrong since they all end up providing a result that you can work with. Check the resources section here on GG if you are curious.

Logan

#2 I bought the packs to see what they contained..
The advertisements allude to "widgets" etc...
I thought that maybe, just maybe, they might contain something
that would be useful to the project I am involved with...

I mentioned the UVWs because they did not appear to be from
any plugin I am familiar with. (doesn't look like texporter)

As far as the "effort" that went into the modelling, the models
are quite simple and probably took Joe Maruschak about 45
minutes to do both of them. Or less...

As I previously stated, for a beginner the content packs would be
VERY useful but for an experienced modeller or coder they are not
worth the purchase.. There are free resources (TGEV) that provide
everything required (datablock included) to get a wheeled vehicle
into the engine.

The "Jetbike" is not even a hover vehicle.. It has 8 wheels..
There was one up side though, it made me laugh... :D

Again, as previously stated, these products will serve the
beginner very well (even if the "Jetbike" is a bit misleading)
but they are not a good value for the experienced modeller or
coder.

#3 Joe is good but I can assure you that it takes him more than 45 minutes to do this kind of work, plus you are neglecting the scripting, testing, ignition code, and other tasks that were involved in making these packs. The sheer fact that you dismiss the hard work involved in setting this stuff up is insulting to say the least.

I won't bother to continue debating about the value of the content packs because you obviously have made up your mind that it wasn't worth your money (though as I have said you will find plenty of people who will disagree with you there), though I do think that your opinion of the packs are pretty shallow and misinformed at best, but to each their own.

In regards to UVWs, I have worked with Joe and I know the method that he uses to build custom UVW maps. It is not a plugin but the internal tools that come with the 3D modeling software that he uses. If you are curious there is a resource on this here on the GarageGames site (as I previously stated).

#4 If those models took JM any more than an Hour to complete I
would be very surprised..

You see, I have been working with 3D modelling software
since 3D Studio was a beta.. Not MAX, 3DS for DOS.

I fully understand the time and trouble required to turn
out these simple meshes.

I have nothing but respect for what JM has accomplished
in his published work, but that has nothing to do with the
fact that the Bravetree content packs are not a useful item
to experienced modellers or coders.

For the beginner, or someone completely new to Torque, they
are an excellent starting point..

And there is still one up side:

Me and the guys I'm working with are still laughing our asses
off about the 8 wheeled "Jetbike"...

Guess it was worth the $14.95 just for all of the laughs. :)

#5 Well since you and your team seem to know it all, I would like to suggest that you submit your changes to the scripts, engine, and 3D scenes for vehicles to Bravetree and get a deal worked out with them to get a cut of the profits on the new items. Since you and your peers are obviously far more well versed in what you are doing with vehicles than anyone else I am certain that everyone (not just newbies or beginners) can benefit immensely from what knowledge you and your fellow employees can share with us on this subject.

#6 I have bought 2 Bravetree art packs. I am very happy with both of them.

I'm not a beginner, nor am I new to Torque.

-Josh Ritter

#7 Why did you have to blurt that out? what were your intentions? dont give everyone who has published a sucessful game crap like that. if you dont like it dont buy it.

#8 Yeah, if you are so PRO, why do you need the content packs at all?
What did you expect?
I'm also very happy with the BT packs I bought so far.

#9 We used the content packs as templates for our own models. While I admit to being dissapointed in the hover bike not being a hover vehicle, it's a damn clever way to fake it.

Our game uses TGE code from May, and as of that build, Hover vehicles were still broken, this shows out of the box thinking, and examples like this let us "fake" it in a couple of ways in our project.

Use them for what they are: examples of how to do things, and placeholders that aren't programmer art :)

Someone should make a racing game: the TGE Buggy, the BT bike, and labrats deathcar :)

#10 What's a content pack?

#11 I've personnally bought them all and I won't use any of the models for my games because I do the models myself. I will only use the trees because they are beautifull and this don't change the personnal touch of our game (trees are trees :) ). I'm buying the BT packs to learn things, not for the models. The models are appreciated to look how they've done things and to test the packs. Even if you know everything (doh !) they're is always new things to learn from others because no-one work the same way as someone else. I've learned new things in each of the packs, some in script, some in, yes, the models, even if I do model since the first version of 3DS (dos, but not beta, hehe). This is far more faster to look at a well done packs then to learn from a 2500 pages/book were you lose a lot of hours reading 90% of the things you already know.

Yourself, you've learned that you can fake a hover with the help of a vehicle! That's another way to do things and can help and be really usefull in some kind of games. Also, if you tryed the pack with the latest head, you have to modify some of the script because they were made for 1_1_2. Let me tell you that, if you use the pack the good way, this is working like it is supposed to work. Maybe there is some learning curve that you are missing and you didn't knew you were missing because "you already know everything" ! :)

Have a nice day

Gilles Jr

#12 Well obviously there is a market for them. Actually I was looking for a place to where I could find out how I could sell content packs to garage games, to the community. Hrm, wonder if they will let others do it or if its exclusive to bravetree?

#13

Quote: have nothing but respect for what JM has accomplished
in his published work, but that has nothing to do with the
fact that the Bravetree content packs are not a useful item
to experienced modellers or coders.

Heh. Too funny. You bought it to see how he made it and then was upset when the smoke and mirrors were removed. What did you think it would be? Actual hover code? The wheeled method that Joe used (IIRC) is the same method employed on the hoverbike in Tribes 2. Anyone who'd played T2 remembers how well it handled. The difference here is that the vehicle code in Torque is for wheeled vehicles where as the code in Tribes 2 was for hover vehicles and the wheeled vehicles were completely weighted down and slow to maintain stability. They sold you a working model, not a model and complete physics code for a hover vehicle. I love the irony of you being a self-proclaimed pro yet couldn't figure this out. Good stuff. :)

#14 Tyler, check your Torque. There is a hover vehicle class, and I don't think it's too far out of line for people to expect a content pack featuring a hovering bike to be a working example of that code.

#15 Last I had checked the class was left over and broken from the get go. I think it's a lot to expect of them to fix it, if not revamp and complete it. That's no overnight job. Hell, it's probably more than a few weeks worth of work. But, my main point here was that the only difference in the working model was the vehicle code it was based on.

#16 Just an FYI.. the bike will work with the hover bike code. I tried for a long time to make a hover bike that was stable AND fun. When it was stable (not prone to flying off into the air and boundcing like a ping pong ball) it was not fun to drive, and when it was fun, it was not very stable (prone to flipping off into space and 'bouncing'), so after trying for a few days to get something decent, I went with the invisible wheel method.

Note that this was after Tim had checked in changes to the vehicles (to make the buggy work) and it made it very difficult to tweak the hover vehicles.


Also note that this was done a LONG time ago, and the hover vehcile code may have changed. If anyone wants to try and hook it up, go for it... it should work just fine if you have the right script.