Joe (read plz) About server mods...
by wingman · in ThinkTanks · 09/04/2003 (1:32 pm) · 9 replies
Any technical info been released for custom mod creation yet?
#2
Your last comment is the most interesting to me, as i see the modding going on as a train that has officially left the station. personally, i'm not a fan, as the focus of the game goes from playing and such to goofing around with the under-hood. elsewhere, in reply to demand for an editor, someone said all those sorts of things should be left to you guys so you can in fact answer the door with the rent man comes calling; i fully agree with this particular claim...
I think the game is at an odd transitional stage. i assume you guys are working on updates (ctf and such), but i wonder what we would see if you were to scrap that (leaving modding to the geeks among the paying) and push on with whatever you've got in the pipeline (TT2?). To me, the game overall is to friggin fresh to ignore, but i also think it could be more extensive, the way soccer is just soccer, but the olympics is that and much much more. increasingly refined physics, 2 team, more arena-ish levels, game modes etc. maybe instead of a new game, like a 5 dollar expansion pack so you guys get some compensation for the more work that would be required.
end p1...
09/04/2003 (2:33 pm)
Hey clark...Your last comment is the most interesting to me, as i see the modding going on as a train that has officially left the station. personally, i'm not a fan, as the focus of the game goes from playing and such to goofing around with the under-hood. elsewhere, in reply to demand for an editor, someone said all those sorts of things should be left to you guys so you can in fact answer the door with the rent man comes calling; i fully agree with this particular claim...
I think the game is at an odd transitional stage. i assume you guys are working on updates (ctf and such), but i wonder what we would see if you were to scrap that (leaving modding to the geeks among the paying) and push on with whatever you've got in the pipeline (TT2?). To me, the game overall is to friggin fresh to ignore, but i also think it could be more extensive, the way soccer is just soccer, but the olympics is that and much much more. increasingly refined physics, 2 team, more arena-ish levels, game modes etc. maybe instead of a new game, like a 5 dollar expansion pack so you guys get some compensation for the more work that would be required.
end p1...
#3
The first mods to show were the Shockwave servers. Custom bot names like John Betty and Carlos are not exactly what I'd expect after reading the game pre amble. I think the bot names and personaities are important things for an entertaining experience for the new user. I think you should on your end keep the official servers OEM.
Az
09/04/2003 (3:51 pm)
Hey Clark I'd like to point this out.The first mods to show were the Shockwave servers. Custom bot names like John Betty and Carlos are not exactly what I'd expect after reading the game pre amble. I think the bot names and personaities are important things for an entertaining experience for the new user. I think you should on your end keep the official servers OEM.
Az
#4
'It smells of tank wrecks around here...'
Hugobrain
09/04/2003 (4:17 pm)
Excuse my ignorance, but could you please inform me as to the meaning of OEM? Merci!'It smells of tank wrecks around here...'
Hugobrain
#5
09/04/2003 (4:41 pm)
OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer
#6
I would easily pay half again the sticker price for a sizeable expansion of some kind- like extra maps, a couple of new game types(CTF, scrum racing, or something), and a map editor. I wouldn't expect the devs to add much more for free- it's well worth the price as it is.
09/04/2003 (6:51 pm)
Hadn't realized till recently you guys had worked on Tribes. I loved that game :-)I would easily pay half again the sticker price for a sizeable expansion of some kind- like extra maps, a couple of new game types(CTF, scrum racing, or something), and a map editor. I wouldn't expect the devs to add much more for free- it's well worth the price as it is.
#7
I would suggest the following, in sequence:
1. Release the editor. If possible with the *.CS scripts. Hmmm. Actually, I believe a lot of people will buy a "developer" pack for ThinkTanks that includes the *CS files. Provided of course that its reasonably priced. $5 to $10USD?
2. Make a New Game.
3. Make ThinkTanks 2.
I suggest that you make version 2 after you've made a new game. In my day job, I work as a Technical Team Manager for a business software development house. There are actually 2 reasons to why you would do this. 1st is that you've given your developers, who may have been working on the same project for 1 to 2 years, something new to work on. What we actually do is hire new people to support the existing products and the original programmers becomes consultants to it. ;) 2nd is that when the dev team finishes with the new project, enough time has passed for your product to be a household name. This also mean that your marketing/reseach people also have enough information on what the customer want ... so when you build the new version ... it will be what your customers want.
Btw, about being worried with the new user experience if you let the modding community go haywire ... I'm not worried about it. Consider Tribes2. I actually bought it around last quarter of last year. Still, when I installed it, I didn't go out and get the mods ... I played around with the standard settings first. When I got bored with it, I actually went out and looked for game mods. The mods actually extended the life of the game. Think about this, I have the complete Baldur's Gate series. I really loved that game ... but after beating it, its now gone from my harddisk -->> Tribes2 is still on my D:\Games directory.
Alex
09/04/2003 (7:13 pm)
Hello Chris,I would suggest the following, in sequence:
1. Release the editor. If possible with the *.CS scripts. Hmmm. Actually, I believe a lot of people will buy a "developer" pack for ThinkTanks that includes the *CS files. Provided of course that its reasonably priced. $5 to $10USD?
2. Make a New Game.
3. Make ThinkTanks 2.
I suggest that you make version 2 after you've made a new game. In my day job, I work as a Technical Team Manager for a business software development house. There are actually 2 reasons to why you would do this. 1st is that you've given your developers, who may have been working on the same project for 1 to 2 years, something new to work on. What we actually do is hire new people to support the existing products and the original programmers becomes consultants to it. ;) 2nd is that when the dev team finishes with the new project, enough time has passed for your product to be a household name. This also mean that your marketing/reseach people also have enough information on what the customer want ... so when you build the new version ... it will be what your customers want.
Btw, about being worried with the new user experience if you let the modding community go haywire ... I'm not worried about it. Consider Tribes2. I actually bought it around last quarter of last year. Still, when I installed it, I didn't go out and get the mods ... I played around with the standard settings first. When I got bored with it, I actually went out and looked for game mods. The mods actually extended the life of the game. Think about this, I have the complete Baldur's Gate series. I really loved that game ... but after beating it, its now gone from my harddisk -->> Tribes2 is still on my D:\Games directory.
Alex
#8
I'm glad people find the servers I put up fun, and its for this reason, and the fact that they fill up so quickly that I do try and keep one open whenever I can. Its always guaranteed to be a 'slightly different' game, pushing the boundaries and bending a few rules etc ;) but some of the results can be a welcome distraction from the regular games.
The latest server isnt all my own doing by any means, but others (outside of Bravetree) have contributed to it.
-Z-
09/05/2003 (1:54 pm)
Well any custom server I have put up has always been named completely differently to all teh TT servers and SW servers. Also, if anything is different to the standard game, it will always either be passworded or a team game - thus excluding the demos.I'm glad people find the servers I put up fun, and its for this reason, and the fact that they fill up so quickly that I do try and keep one open whenever I can. Its always guaranteed to be a 'slightly different' game, pushing the boundaries and bending a few rules etc ;) but some of the results can be a welcome distraction from the regular games.
The latest server isnt all my own doing by any means, but others (outside of Bravetree) have contributed to it.
-Z-
#9
Releasing a development kit could be fun, too, although it isn't for me. No time for me to get into it (I have enough problems finding time for all the other creative stuff I'm trying to do :) ). Still, no reason not to put one out. It also could make the modded servers a little more "official" and maybe more uniformly interesting and working, so newbie players who happen into them won't get discouraged by some of the wackiness I've seen. (Wackiness is fun, but a newbie might not get the "joke" so to speak and could be put off by what is assumed to be bugs or poor level design...)
As for what Bravetree should do next, I had assumed you all would likely release a bug fix or minor improvement to Thinktanks and be done with it for a while. You should probably do a new game before fiddling more with ThinkTanks -- I don't think you all have the manpower to do both at the same time, and I don't want you getting burned out on TT. :)
09/05/2003 (3:10 pm)
FWIW, I'm not that big a fan of the modded servers. They are cute and interesting, but I find myself returning to the regular servers for real fun and games.Releasing a development kit could be fun, too, although it isn't for me. No time for me to get into it (I have enough problems finding time for all the other creative stuff I'm trying to do :) ). Still, no reason not to put one out. It also could make the modded servers a little more "official" and maybe more uniformly interesting and working, so newbie players who happen into them won't get discouraged by some of the wackiness I've seen. (Wackiness is fun, but a newbie might not get the "joke" so to speak and could be put off by what is assumed to be bugs or poor level design...)
As for what Bravetree should do next, I had assumed you all would likely release a bug fix or minor improvement to Thinktanks and be done with it for a while. You should probably do a new game before fiddling more with ThinkTanks -- I don't think you all have the manpower to do both at the same time, and I don't want you getting burned out on TT. :)
Torque Owner Clark Fagot
As has been stated on these forums before, we are wary of releasing more info right now because we want a controlled experience for the new user. Still, the hacks that are going on are fun for us to see happen (we just hope the new user will first play the game as we intended and then move on to the variants). Keeping this control but still allowing customization is something we have talked a bit about over the last few weeks. Not sure what our solution will be at this point, but I am getting the sense that we will need to figure something out eventually or we'll start having irate fans showing up at our houses demanding scripts. LOL.
I know I'm getting off track from the original question, but let me ask you and others this: would you prefer us to upgrade ThinkTanks over the next few months or create a new game? I'm not saying it's a majority rule situation -- we have certain realities, such as mister landlord, that we have to pay attention to -- but we are interested in what you guys think (in the end, we hope to do both, just not in the next few months).
clark