whats better, Schooling or experience??
by Jordan Fye · in General Discussion · 04/20/2011 (9:20 pm) · 6 replies
Sorry if this has been covered, but i have a simple question that can probably be answered a million different ways. I'm hoping to get some input. Whats better, being a great artist with no studio experience, or being a great artist with no studio experience, but you have a degree?? Will studios just look at how good your work is, and thats that? Or does it take more than that? So, When trying to work for a studio what do they look for, a good portfolio or a piece of paper (degree)?
I am about to get out of the military so my schooling will be paid for (most of it). Although, I can put together an artists portfolio that would rival most people out there. The only problem is that my work is ghetto... let me explain. I started of at the Art institute of pittsburgh for computer animation. However, animation is a whole different ballgame than game art and design. In (movie) animation, i can just get stuff to "work" long enough to render a good scene, but its not very stable. In game art you have to have everything perfect, its much harder. Your uv's have to be perfect in every way, animations perfect (not just move this, keyframe it, move, keyframe, render. You actually have to have set animations.)
So i am looking on going back for game art and design. But the school is around 130,000$. Only 80k of it will be paid for.. Which means ill have around 50k to pay back. I just finished paying off my animation degree, and Most level designers only start out making around 30k a year working for AAA companys blizzard, bethsedia, ubisoft, bioware, etc...
Considering schooling will be mostly free should i do it? or just go out guns'a'blazing to studios with a good portfolio?? I would like schooling to make my work more stable, but couldnt i learn tips and tricks as i go in a studio? This all started when i watched toy story and finding nemo. Thinking to myself "wouldnt it be cool if i could tell my kids i made that." So i went to school. Now its "Mass effect, and fallout, borderlands, wouldnt it be cool to tell my kids i made that?" haha
School starts in a few weeks for the summer quarter, and I'm really stuck on what to do. By the time i get out of school ill be 30, and who knows what im going to learn. Am i going to learn the same stuff i already know, but learn 1 good thing over the 4 years?
I am about to get out of the military so my schooling will be paid for (most of it). Although, I can put together an artists portfolio that would rival most people out there. The only problem is that my work is ghetto... let me explain. I started of at the Art institute of pittsburgh for computer animation. However, animation is a whole different ballgame than game art and design. In (movie) animation, i can just get stuff to "work" long enough to render a good scene, but its not very stable. In game art you have to have everything perfect, its much harder. Your uv's have to be perfect in every way, animations perfect (not just move this, keyframe it, move, keyframe, render. You actually have to have set animations.)
So i am looking on going back for game art and design. But the school is around 130,000$. Only 80k of it will be paid for.. Which means ill have around 50k to pay back. I just finished paying off my animation degree, and Most level designers only start out making around 30k a year working for AAA companys blizzard, bethsedia, ubisoft, bioware, etc...
Considering schooling will be mostly free should i do it? or just go out guns'a'blazing to studios with a good portfolio?? I would like schooling to make my work more stable, but couldnt i learn tips and tricks as i go in a studio? This all started when i watched toy story and finding nemo. Thinking to myself "wouldnt it be cool if i could tell my kids i made that." So i went to school. Now its "Mass effect, and fallout, borderlands, wouldnt it be cool to tell my kids i made that?" haha
School starts in a few weeks for the summer quarter, and I'm really stuck on what to do. By the time i get out of school ill be 30, and who knows what im going to learn. Am i going to learn the same stuff i already know, but learn 1 good thing over the 4 years?
About the author
Today ill work on the art portion of my game... Well what about this script... Oh this youtube video is hilarious... todays progress 0%
#2
I just want to work in the gaming industry period. A stable job would be nice considering my family. One reason i dont really want to go back to school is because 3 years is math, physics, 3d math, english, painting, drawing, then the last year you learn your actual degree.
Its a good school with good job placement, thats why it would be nice. Its a very hard school though, only 2 people have ever actually graduated game art and design at the hollywood art institute...
My experience is lacking though, when i went to school the best 3d animations were worse than todays next gen games. Todays low poly modeling was our high poly. Everything is realtime now too. It used to take me 8 hours to render 1 frame of a movie.
Then with being occipied with other things, i havent kept up with my skills. I got them back pretty quick though now that i have started back up.
zBrush is so amazing, and if i go back to school i can get zBrush, 3dsm, maya, wacom tablets, new computers, anything for about 90% off MSRP hah..
I have also talked to some AAA game character designers who can whip up a next gen character in about 2 hours from scratch, then send it off to the texture guy. Myself, i can do next gen characters, but it takes me about a week or two. Thats another reason i would like school. Just the little hints on how to do stuff the right way instead of "this works i guess".
04/20/2011 (10:45 pm)
Good input, thanks for the response!I just want to work in the gaming industry period. A stable job would be nice considering my family. One reason i dont really want to go back to school is because 3 years is math, physics, 3d math, english, painting, drawing, then the last year you learn your actual degree.
Its a good school with good job placement, thats why it would be nice. Its a very hard school though, only 2 people have ever actually graduated game art and design at the hollywood art institute...
My experience is lacking though, when i went to school the best 3d animations were worse than todays next gen games. Todays low poly modeling was our high poly. Everything is realtime now too. It used to take me 8 hours to render 1 frame of a movie.
Then with being occipied with other things, i havent kept up with my skills. I got them back pretty quick though now that i have started back up.
zBrush is so amazing, and if i go back to school i can get zBrush, 3dsm, maya, wacom tablets, new computers, anything for about 90% off MSRP hah..
I have also talked to some AAA game character designers who can whip up a next gen character in about 2 hours from scratch, then send it off to the texture guy. Myself, i can do next gen characters, but it takes me about a week or two. Thats another reason i would like school. Just the little hints on how to do stuff the right way instead of "this works i guess".
#3
In the 3A gaming industry?
Show prospective employers that you know what you're doing with a hsit-hot portfolio.
Having said that the HR departments of a lot of the faceless gaming corps require a degree before even considering you - Activision certainly do --- doesn't always have to be in anything game related though.
04/21/2011 (4:26 am)
Quote:
A stable job
In the 3A gaming industry?
Show prospective employers that you know what you're doing with a hsit-hot portfolio.
Having said that the HR departments of a lot of the faceless gaming corps require a degree before even considering you - Activision certainly do --- doesn't always have to be in anything game related though.
#4
The games business is definitely not something where you can choose the right path and everything is fine and stable. It's like being self employed, you have to stay behind it or you will drown.
With stable I meant to lower the risk, meaning: at school you might get a little push that might prevent you from slacking behind. And depending on the school/academy you could get a "little" more prepared for the industry.
The experience will come on or the other way, because in that art institute you have to do it yourself as well. They mostly provide you with the pasting for your learning curve and access to the right material.(btw max, maya, etc are mostly student licenses, i.e. non-commercial only)
Of course there is also the degree, which could come in handy one day.
The speed for modeling a next-gen character is all in the training and exercise. It's basically an understanding of anatomy and mesh topology.
@Steve - LOL, I watched that stupid clip like 10 times after your post!!!!
04/21/2011 (7:57 am)
Well, I think simply applying to a studio has almost no success rate, no matter what path has been chosen.Quote:Show prospective employers that you know what you're doing with a hsit-hot portfolio.That's the case either way.
The games business is definitely not something where you can choose the right path and everything is fine and stable. It's like being self employed, you have to stay behind it or you will drown.
With stable I meant to lower the risk, meaning: at school you might get a little push that might prevent you from slacking behind. And depending on the school/academy you could get a "little" more prepared for the industry.
The experience will come on or the other way, because in that art institute you have to do it yourself as well. They mostly provide you with the pasting for your learning curve and access to the right material.(btw max, maya, etc are mostly student licenses, i.e. non-commercial only)
Of course there is also the degree, which could come in handy one day.
The speed for modeling a next-gen character is all in the training and exercise. It's basically an understanding of anatomy and mesh topology.
@Steve - LOL, I watched that stupid clip like 10 times after your post!!!!
#5
04/21/2011 (9:53 am)
I can tell you from the Infrastructure standpoint a degree is a must. I am guessing software dev will be the same. I have 14 years of corporate IT experience, but I can't get to many interviews because I don't have a degree. Many website job applications won't even let you finish the job submitting if you can't check the "Have a Bachelors" degree box. A person with a Culinary Bachelor's degree can make it further than I can in getting interviewed.
#6
thanks for the input guys. i think i am just gonna go back to school, but being broke for 4 years doesnt sound fun haha. im waiting till the fall semester to think i little harder though before i just jump into it.
04/22/2011 (1:49 pm)
hahaha i wateched that video about 4 times.thanks for the input guys. i think i am just gonna go back to school, but being broke for 4 years doesnt sound fun haha. im waiting till the fall semester to think i little harder though before i just jump into it.
Torque 3D Owner Alexander Krause
Coming soon...
For example, I know exactly what I want and how to get it done for my development.
And I will learn what I don't know yet.
There are people within the development environment, who just want to have a job with solid income.
Studios wanna see the portfolio. If your work is awesome, people wanna have you.
The school way might become easier than the warrior way, but it costs money, which can also be tough. Specialized game-academies with a great reputation within the game business offer quicker connection to those studios.
But if your portfolio sucks, then no school reputation will help you.
In my opinion, if you are up to the task you should use your existing experience.
If 80k of schooling is paid, then maybe you can have some smaller packet trainings like essential programming, low-poly modeling, advanced zBrush, etc.
This might be more dynamic and flexible.
There is way more to all that, but I gonna wait for your response first.