An idea for an MMO
by Owen "WDA" Ashcroft · in Game Design and Creative Issues · 09/01/2003 (8:57 pm) · 10 replies
I've been sitting on an idea for a while, but with life as fun an entertaining as it is at the moment I don't have time to work on it, so I thought I'd throw it out to see if anybody else was interested.
The idea stemmed from Postal 2, yeah messed up I know, but one thing that I loved about Postal 2's initial quarter of gameplay was the game really WAS as violent and messed up as your were, it was only after that you really were forced to shoot people. But that's an aspect I really enjoyed, so the initial idea was to follow Postal 2 in some ways, the game lasts a week, give them some really mundane tasks to do each day, and then track what happens, they don't HAVE to kill or shoot anyone, or beat someone up, they can play the game peacefully, the game would track their infractions and log them, it would be interesting to see at what point players "lost it" and went on mad crime sprees.
Then the second idea game along, a similar sort of idea, but what if it was an MMO and you gave the players a new town, now there would be NPCs, e.g the little people, the average consumer, the bus driver, the police e.t.c, but this town would say start with a population of 500 people plus however many players there were, then the players would chose skills that were generally business based, so they could become a lawyer, or a politician a store owner and so on, and the idea would be for the player to accumulate points for their account, all characters on an account would be pooled. There would be more action based roles, if players wanted, such as the police, criminals e.t.c, and basically the players would be the bosses and managers of various companies and the idea would be the town would grow dependending upon the choices of the players, and depending on how they behaved the players could turn the small town from a small little backwater into a thriving metropolis or could equally turn it into a crime ridden cess pool.
The player's themselves would be limited to a certain number of skills, and most business would be interdependent on others, for example, anyone could initially buy land off the city government for a highish price, however an estate agent (realtor) could buy it at a lower price, and additionally to that, if a player wanted to sell his land the only person capable of handling a player to player sale would be the estate agent.
Another example would be, the once you have your land, unless you get a prefab office building, boring, not large, you would need to hire an architect to design you a building and a builder to build it, and it would take time, depending upon the size of the project, you wouldn't just point and drop a building onto your land.
As your offices and business grows the options to you would expand, for example, returning to the architect, initially an architect may only be able to design small single story buildings, however when his business grows to a certain size his skills would increase in level and he would be able to design larger and more impressive buildings.
The idea would be to create a working town that is dependent upon player direction, from everything from bus routes to city hall, from construction to computing (who's going to sell you that cool system that improves your productivity!!).
However there is a catch, perma-death, if a town becomes a criminal cess pool a lot of players are going to get killed, and I was thinking that if you had 5 accounts and one of your characters die, you lose access to that slot for a week, however since all your points are pooled you can give you next character a headstart, by spending those points on training that initial generation wouldn't get.
That's about it really, if anyone wants to pick this up and run with it please do, I would like to give it a try myself when I've settled down a bit more and have some time to figure out one of the few GPLed MMO engines out there.
Owen
The idea stemmed from Postal 2, yeah messed up I know, but one thing that I loved about Postal 2's initial quarter of gameplay was the game really WAS as violent and messed up as your were, it was only after that you really were forced to shoot people. But that's an aspect I really enjoyed, so the initial idea was to follow Postal 2 in some ways, the game lasts a week, give them some really mundane tasks to do each day, and then track what happens, they don't HAVE to kill or shoot anyone, or beat someone up, they can play the game peacefully, the game would track their infractions and log them, it would be interesting to see at what point players "lost it" and went on mad crime sprees.
Then the second idea game along, a similar sort of idea, but what if it was an MMO and you gave the players a new town, now there would be NPCs, e.g the little people, the average consumer, the bus driver, the police e.t.c, but this town would say start with a population of 500 people plus however many players there were, then the players would chose skills that were generally business based, so they could become a lawyer, or a politician a store owner and so on, and the idea would be for the player to accumulate points for their account, all characters on an account would be pooled. There would be more action based roles, if players wanted, such as the police, criminals e.t.c, and basically the players would be the bosses and managers of various companies and the idea would be the town would grow dependending upon the choices of the players, and depending on how they behaved the players could turn the small town from a small little backwater into a thriving metropolis or could equally turn it into a crime ridden cess pool.
The player's themselves would be limited to a certain number of skills, and most business would be interdependent on others, for example, anyone could initially buy land off the city government for a highish price, however an estate agent (realtor) could buy it at a lower price, and additionally to that, if a player wanted to sell his land the only person capable of handling a player to player sale would be the estate agent.
Another example would be, the once you have your land, unless you get a prefab office building, boring, not large, you would need to hire an architect to design you a building and a builder to build it, and it would take time, depending upon the size of the project, you wouldn't just point and drop a building onto your land.
As your offices and business grows the options to you would expand, for example, returning to the architect, initially an architect may only be able to design small single story buildings, however when his business grows to a certain size his skills would increase in level and he would be able to design larger and more impressive buildings.
The idea would be to create a working town that is dependent upon player direction, from everything from bus routes to city hall, from construction to computing (who's going to sell you that cool system that improves your productivity!!).
However there is a catch, perma-death, if a town becomes a criminal cess pool a lot of players are going to get killed, and I was thinking that if you had 5 accounts and one of your characters die, you lose access to that slot for a week, however since all your points are pooled you can give you next character a headstart, by spending those points on training that initial generation wouldn't get.
That's about it really, if anyone wants to pick this up and run with it please do, I would like to give it a try myself when I've settled down a bit more and have some time to figure out one of the few GPLed MMO engines out there.
Owen
About the author
#2
Personally, I don't think I would like that game too much. But my cousin would love a game where you played as an acountant or something. She used to play Ultima Online because she liked to wander around fishing and tanning hides and stuff. She liked to cook things and buy new clothes.
She would love having a game where you do various peaceful stuff.
There are people like that. In fact, they're a video game market that is mostly untapped.
09/02/2003 (4:52 pm)
I don't think it's a bad idea per se, but I agree that it would be hard to actually make such a game.Personally, I don't think I would like that game too much. But my cousin would love a game where you played as an acountant or something. She used to play Ultima Online because she liked to wander around fishing and tanning hides and stuff. She liked to cook things and buy new clothes.
She would love having a game where you do various peaceful stuff.
There are people like that. In fact, they're a video game market that is mostly untapped.
#3
Where would the fun be:
The fun would be in building and maintaining a business in a player run market, if you don't like that sort of thing you would hate this game, there are plenty of people who would.
UI:
Not sure, would have to plan this out more carefully, the exact scope of the project would have to be worked out, I would be leaning towards FP perspective, so players actually wander around town, but thought would have to go into the best way of laying out this information for the player.
The scope is too large:
Not really, every profession, like anyother game would need to be carefully planned out and implemented, it isn't a do what you want, it is like any other MMO, do what you want, within the confines of the system. I never said that I was expecting 1000s of professions or for players to fill their own niches doing what they want, the system, like any other will have limits, the design, if one is ever created, would define those limits.
It's a lot of work:
Any MMO, or large game will be a lot of work, I'm not suggesting I could possibly handle this project, or that I believe I could, I'm suggesting it because at this point I don't have time to attempt to even start toying with it, hopefully sometime in the future I will.
It's unproven technology that doesn't exist:
Personally I feel this idea leans towards A Tale In The Desert's methodolgy of a non-violence, skill based, MMO, where people cooperate. Additionally, depending on the user interface a generic MMO engine could possibly be used as a starting point. Criminal organisations and the Police could be fitted to work like any other business, but they would be more specialised cases, that would need more planning that the normal business types.
It's unoriginal:
Please think about this statement, if I had seen this, or was blatently ripping something else off do you think I would have posted it, I posted it because I feel the idea is original and as yet occupies a niche unfulfilled by any other game.
And before anyone goes "Well, I think it WOULD be fun":
Err... Anyone who posts here as thought that, I am hardly going to come up with a game idea that I hate am I????
Boils down to let the player do what he wants:
Not really, the idea is to create a framework where the player can do certain things within tight rules, like anyother computer game, single, multi, or MMO, there is no way anyone could build a game where the sky is the limit, I'm not stupid enough to suggest anything of the sort, I am suggesting a Business Sim MMO, nothing more. The addition of Criminals and Police were thrown in as a bone to those who want a bit of conflict, and are not a major part of the system, it is simply just an idea to flesh out an area of the game to make it appeal to a broader base.
Sorry if this sounded harsh:
No it just sounded kneejerk, I have given this project quite a bit of thought, as I am fed up with violence based MMOs and would be interested in seeing more player driven MMOs out there, rather than the majority, where The Player need not really interact with other players.
09/03/2003 (7:00 pm)
In answer to a number of questionsWhere would the fun be:
The fun would be in building and maintaining a business in a player run market, if you don't like that sort of thing you would hate this game, there are plenty of people who would.
UI:
Not sure, would have to plan this out more carefully, the exact scope of the project would have to be worked out, I would be leaning towards FP perspective, so players actually wander around town, but thought would have to go into the best way of laying out this information for the player.
The scope is too large:
Not really, every profession, like anyother game would need to be carefully planned out and implemented, it isn't a do what you want, it is like any other MMO, do what you want, within the confines of the system. I never said that I was expecting 1000s of professions or for players to fill their own niches doing what they want, the system, like any other will have limits, the design, if one is ever created, would define those limits.
It's a lot of work:
Any MMO, or large game will be a lot of work, I'm not suggesting I could possibly handle this project, or that I believe I could, I'm suggesting it because at this point I don't have time to attempt to even start toying with it, hopefully sometime in the future I will.
It's unproven technology that doesn't exist:
Personally I feel this idea leans towards A Tale In The Desert's methodolgy of a non-violence, skill based, MMO, where people cooperate. Additionally, depending on the user interface a generic MMO engine could possibly be used as a starting point. Criminal organisations and the Police could be fitted to work like any other business, but they would be more specialised cases, that would need more planning that the normal business types.
It's unoriginal:
Please think about this statement, if I had seen this, or was blatently ripping something else off do you think I would have posted it, I posted it because I feel the idea is original and as yet occupies a niche unfulfilled by any other game.
And before anyone goes "Well, I think it WOULD be fun":
Err... Anyone who posts here as thought that, I am hardly going to come up with a game idea that I hate am I????
Boils down to let the player do what he wants:
Not really, the idea is to create a framework where the player can do certain things within tight rules, like anyother computer game, single, multi, or MMO, there is no way anyone could build a game where the sky is the limit, I'm not stupid enough to suggest anything of the sort, I am suggesting a Business Sim MMO, nothing more. The addition of Criminals and Police were thrown in as a bone to those who want a bit of conflict, and are not a major part of the system, it is simply just an idea to flesh out an area of the game to make it appeal to a broader base.
Sorry if this sounded harsh:
No it just sounded kneejerk, I have given this project quite a bit of thought, as I am fed up with violence based MMOs and would be interested in seeing more player driven MMOs out there, rather than the majority, where The Player need not really interact with other players.
#4
- Player X owns a small yet increasingly successful Builders company.
- Player X has decided that to increase his profits quickly he needs to buy some land and build some houses on it to sell to other players.
- Player X checks out the land still unbought directly from the City Government, there are no suitable plots of land remaining.
- Player X travels to an area where he knows a Real Estate company is, owned by Player Y, who he knows has bought large tracts of land off of the City Government.
- Player X looks at the preset prices and decides that it is too high, and maybe some haggling with Player Y could pursuade him to lower his prices, after some discussion Player Y agrees to reduce the price on a large plot of land if Player X can build him some new offices cheaply, Player X agrees and buys the land, and signs a building contract with Player Y for a 2 story office building at Cost + 5% (His usual price is cost + 10%).
- Player X now owns the land, however needs house plans so that he can build these houses.
- Player X approaches Player A, a new architect, who is sure is eager to get some business and make a name for himself, he asks Player A to create (Lego style) a house that can be repeated 4 times on the plot of land he has, Player A and Player X agree a fee and latest delivery date for the plans, and Player A begins works on the house designs.
- Player X receives the house designs a couple of days later, and isn't sure about a couple of things so returns to Player A, after a little adjustment Player X is happy with the designs and checks the contract complete, the fee is transferred from Player X to Player A and the designs move into Player X's inventory.
- Player X now places the designs on his plot of land, and sets some of his NPC staff to build the houses, however not all, because he still needs to send some out to work for other companies, and to get started on the 2 story office building for Player Y, so the money can continue to come in as the houses will take 5 real days to build.
- The houses now complete Player X returns to Player Y to put those houses on the market.
That's the idea, the whole point is to have a series of professions that rely on each other heavily. It isn't freeform in the slightest, people can't do what they want, they can only work to the included skills in the game.
09/03/2003 (7:00 pm)
To give a better example of game play, please note that this is an IDEA not a game design document....- Player X owns a small yet increasingly successful Builders company.
- Player X has decided that to increase his profits quickly he needs to buy some land and build some houses on it to sell to other players.
- Player X checks out the land still unbought directly from the City Government, there are no suitable plots of land remaining.
- Player X travels to an area where he knows a Real Estate company is, owned by Player Y, who he knows has bought large tracts of land off of the City Government.
- Player X looks at the preset prices and decides that it is too high, and maybe some haggling with Player Y could pursuade him to lower his prices, after some discussion Player Y agrees to reduce the price on a large plot of land if Player X can build him some new offices cheaply, Player X agrees and buys the land, and signs a building contract with Player Y for a 2 story office building at Cost + 5% (His usual price is cost + 10%).
- Player X now owns the land, however needs house plans so that he can build these houses.
- Player X approaches Player A, a new architect, who is sure is eager to get some business and make a name for himself, he asks Player A to create (Lego style) a house that can be repeated 4 times on the plot of land he has, Player A and Player X agree a fee and latest delivery date for the plans, and Player A begins works on the house designs.
- Player X receives the house designs a couple of days later, and isn't sure about a couple of things so returns to Player A, after a little adjustment Player X is happy with the designs and checks the contract complete, the fee is transferred from Player X to Player A and the designs move into Player X's inventory.
- Player X now places the designs on his plot of land, and sets some of his NPC staff to build the houses, however not all, because he still needs to send some out to work for other companies, and to get started on the 2 story office building for Player Y, so the money can continue to come in as the houses will take 5 real days to build.
- The houses now complete Player X returns to Player Y to put those houses on the market.
That's the idea, the whole point is to have a series of professions that rely on each other heavily. It isn't freeform in the slightest, people can't do what they want, they can only work to the included skills in the game.
#5
Just the addition of the information in these two posts totally change my perceptions of what the game is, and how it would work. What you did in those two posts that you didn't do in the first was boil down the idea to its core, the running of a business (still not sure why you're imagining first person view in a busines sim, but maybe that's just me not moving with times :-)
And statements like "leans towards A Tale In The Desert's methodolgy of a non-violence, skill based, MMO, where people cooperate" are invaluable when it comes to explaining ideas!
Generally, I think it is a really bad move to "thrown in a bone" to make an idea appeal to more people. In this case, I think all it did was confuse me about what the game really was.
Anyway, thanks for clearing things up and presenting your idea in a way I could understand.
Still think it would take a lot of work and quite some budget, but at least I get the point of it now, and I can see how it could work.
09/04/2003 (12:57 am)
Well, now, THIS sounds like a proper idea :-)Just the addition of the information in these two posts totally change my perceptions of what the game is, and how it would work. What you did in those two posts that you didn't do in the first was boil down the idea to its core, the running of a business (still not sure why you're imagining first person view in a busines sim, but maybe that's just me not moving with times :-)
And statements like "leans towards A Tale In The Desert's methodolgy of a non-violence, skill based, MMO, where people cooperate" are invaluable when it comes to explaining ideas!
Generally, I think it is a really bad move to "thrown in a bone" to make an idea appeal to more people. In this case, I think all it did was confuse me about what the game really was.
Anyway, thanks for clearing things up and presenting your idea in a way I could understand.
Still think it would take a lot of work and quite some budget, but at least I get the point of it now, and I can see how it could work.
#6
Oh I agree it would take a lot of work and budget, but it would be a nice idea :)
09/04/2003 (5:32 pm)
Glad that helped clear things up, maybe conflict in the sense police vs crims wouldn't work too well in the setting, I think you are right, it was an idea I was toying with, as I think the game would benefit from a criminal element, maybe it would be best run like a business, you are some criminal don or precinct cheif? So it would be a little more like chess than quake..Oh I agree it would take a lot of work and budget, but it would be a nice idea :)
#7
09/04/2003 (5:33 pm)
The first person perspective was to give the player the impression that they are still just a person, a big cog, but still just a cog, could also provide a more personal level to the game, as players would have to meet each other physically, or invest in other methods of communication.
#8
I would like to know why people find this idea fun.
10/09/2003 (11:52 am)
Anything is possible in the world. If it hasn't been done, the procedure to do it probably just needs to be figured out. That being said, I would have a hard time justifying spending money based on "real-life." I already live it. It might be faster to play it as a game, but that doesn't mean it won't have all the same problems or even a subset of the problems I see every day.I would like to know why people find this idea fun.
#9
What if a player wants to work for the city, wants to be part of the commite that issues building permits to contractors? What if another player wants to be the system administrater for the city public works offices? What if a player wants to be a politicion and plans on major changes in the laws once elected?
What of players who want to start a house painting buisness? What of players who want to drive a garbage truck? What of players who want to own a automobile dealership? What of players that want to be rock stars? What of players who want to open up a pet store? Players who want to be dog catchers? Players who want to own a kennel? teach in a college? own a stationary store? Develop video games? Players that want to play Everquest all day? Players that want to sell stuff on Ebay? Players who want to own a funeral home? Players who want to start a religion? Players who want to convert other players to their religion? Players who want to play a super realistic MMO game within the confines of your game?
You can't include everything, so where are you going to draw the "realisam" line?
10/10/2003 (1:28 am)
Hmm...But what if a player wants to be a doctor? and another player wants to geneticly engineer some super virus to drum up buisness for his doctor friend?What if a player wants to work for the city, wants to be part of the commite that issues building permits to contractors? What if another player wants to be the system administrater for the city public works offices? What if a player wants to be a politicion and plans on major changes in the laws once elected?
What of players who want to start a house painting buisness? What of players who want to drive a garbage truck? What of players who want to own a automobile dealership? What of players that want to be rock stars? What of players who want to open up a pet store? Players who want to be dog catchers? Players who want to own a kennel? teach in a college? own a stationary store? Develop video games? Players that want to play Everquest all day? Players that want to sell stuff on Ebay? Players who want to own a funeral home? Players who want to start a religion? Players who want to convert other players to their religion? Players who want to play a super realistic MMO game within the confines of your game?
You can't include everything, so where are you going to draw the "realisam" line?
#10
10/10/2003 (2:24 am)
Can you go mad with your job and go and kill people? 
Mattias Gustavsson
The first problem is the scope. It is too big. Some people will argue with this, and say that it is doable, but it is not. You mention a few examples of what can be done (like buing/selling land, building properties), but do you realise that behind each and every single one of those things, there's days (weeks?) of programming. Again, some people will say that "No, it would be possible to make a generic system that can handle all that, no problem, won't take that long" but that leaves you with another problem: the whole game relies on technologt that does not exist yet. If there's not a similar system in existence, and no prototype for your system, you don't KNOW that it will work, and chances are, it won't.
Second problem is: Where's the fun? Why would players want to play accountants and businessmen? I can see the appeal of businessgames where you manage a business by yourself... but in the way you described? Just sounds boring to me... Maybe I'm just missing the point? Please feel free to explain to me how this "idea" would make for a FUN game... Maybe you could describe in more detail 5 consecutive minutes of play. What does the player do, how does the game react to that, and what makes this fun.
Also (and this is back to the scope issue) how would the user interface and controls be? Would they be the same for a policeman and a businessman? Wouldn't that be hard to use, since one is more action-oriented whilst the other is more about strategy/management? Or would they be different? Most likely yes. And that means implementing several interfaces, making the project even more into a developing several games.
And before anyone goes "Well, I think it WOULD be fun", please think that through first, and try to back that up with examples. Most likely it sounds fun in your head, because you imagine it to be very freeform and "you can do whatever you want", but really, if you imagine playing the game, performing all the results (yes, imagine the actual DOING as well, not just the results of it). Is it still fun? Exactly which parts make it fun, and can those parts be more easily realised in a simpler game?
Again, sorry if this sounded harsh. But really, this isn't much of an idea...