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Difference between 2D and 3D engine

by Bojan Vukojevic · in General Discussion · 01/31/2011 (4:07 am) · 4 replies

Hello all,

I'm working in T2D for some time now and i pretty much understand the whole workflow and what i need to finish a project from start. You need a programmer than can code in torque script, no source code needed so far, then a designer for visuals and someone to do the sounds. So in theory, and it depends on the project and people, you can finish a decent 2d game with only 1-3 people.

How all this looks in 3D world? What do you need and how does it look compared? Is the source code a must and do you need C++ programmer? Can you finish the whole project with only torque script? Are 3D models and textures more complicated than 2D art? Basically any generalization of the whole process would be appreciated.

I ask this question because i got some ideas that need to be done in 3D and i have no idea how much more time consuming and more expensive it is. I tried to find some tutorial that goes from the start till the end like there are in 2D documentation but no luck.

Thanks

#1
01/31/2011 (6:04 am)
The source code is more important in T3D, at least. Some ability to at least read C++ and use the compilers is needed if you find useful resources to implement.

3D models are both more and less complicated. You get one model, rig it up, and then just chuck some animations at it. No need to store a lot of frames, and all bipeds could share the same.

But you also have the task of keeping the number of polygons balanced -not too many to display many models, not too few to look good. Typically you'd spend more on the top half of the models, probably. Then you have to make the textures. Normal maps are another layer, usually generated with the modelling program if you want it to look good. Then there are the other layers.

But that's not all - you'll probably want to customise some shaders. Characters and environment can all require a lot of different ones.

Pathfinding is also something that gets complicated when you want to move beyond a two-dimensional plane. People cheap out and stick with 2D pathfinding fairly often, or use waypoints so AI actually "knows" paths. For instance in Unreal Tournament you drew up paths and put power-ups along them to make the AI "want" to move. Not much real pathfinding, only some simple raycasting to test if they could see targets.

If you are just looking to make a somewhat generic shooter, you can get away with just script. Even a less generic shooter is possible. Much of the work is in models, effects and logic. If you want to expand it into some sort of persistent world you'll need source. If you're implementing a patcher, source is a bonus since you might need more features than script can provide.

And you can create new script functions with the source. If some graphical manipulation turns out slow in script, move it into source and expose it as a call to script instead. Hugely useful for something you might do every screen update.

So to assess the number of people needed…it really depends on the project. Making an RPG? I think you're going to need a ton of models and clothing assets (textures or attachable models). If you have a few really good modellers they might churn out passable models really fast, or a small number of great models slowly.

Outsourcing is very common. I think Amnesia had about 6 developers (and an outsourced sound guy for the effects). Using as many generic packs as you can, you can cut development time immensely. If you're doing a medieval/fantasy-style RTS or similar there are literally thousands of readymade objects for purchase which people probably won't notice if are a bit similar. A few decals can sort the variation out. Trees and plants, even rocks, are not an issue for the most part. Asian vegetation is a bit rarer. Yes, I've looked for it :)

So it can be a much larger undertaking. If the artists have very good grasp of 3D modelling and rigging (since that's a great way to create 2D characters for fast rendering to sprites) you're already well on the way. But you also need objects which are viewable from more different directions, so whereas you might draw a wall or two in a 2D Zelda-like game, a first-person adventure needs the whole building, with lots of contents. Little bits of props are also more important since the objects are viewed much closely.

Other than that, 3D games are a piece of cake. Apart from having to know some 3D maths, prepare for limitations of graphics cards (texture sizes, shader levels) and probably other issues. At least scaling to different resolutions gets easier! Oh, wait, you also need to test what field of view settings work best at different aspects. But apart from that, it's a piece of cake :)
#2
01/31/2011 (6:27 am)
Ronny i cant thank you enough :) This is really all i needed to know. I started with torque about a year ago and had an idea to make a small time management game and hopefully earn a few bucks in the process. I'm a programmer so i got that part covered. The problem appeared when i started to need graphics. I have no talent in drawing and after a while there was a serious need for a lot of assets so that was a real problem for me. I'm still hesitant to invest a lot of money at least until i'm sure i have a product that is at least presentable :) Thats when i started to think about 3d, a lot of already made models are available all over the net. And for a prototype i need only a few of them. So in theory i'm thinking it is easier to stay one man team (until you are sure you have something worth investing more money) when you are a programmer in 3D than in 2D. But again it depends on the project as always :)

Thanks again off to read some documentation :)
#3
01/31/2011 (7:17 am)
If you go for a retro shiny vector look, you could make games all alone with either engine :)

No need for an artist. Might even manage without shaders, or just one:MAX BLOOM. That sounds like a great name for a game!

You can also mess with procedural stuff. Then you will need to dig into the source, but can also do completely without external models.
#4
01/31/2011 (10:28 am)
Tbh i'm pretty limited at the moment with the ideas. Don't get me wrong i have tons of ideas as we all do :) but only 2 of them are something i'm pleased with. One is a 2d with a lot of assets and one is 3d with not much assets. Now i only need a third one with vector graphics and then i have no more excuses :)