Learned something about software piracy
by Max R Huskins · in General Discussion · 08/16/2001 (11:30 pm) · 20 replies
I found out an interesting thing about corporate law today. A business in my town began merger discussions with a larger company recently.
During the process of merging two businesses the purchasing company will often hire a specialised team that will go through all of the computers and equipment in the company being bought looking for pirated software.
Apparently this kind of thing is getting very popular with companies because of legal concerns. From what I've heard, any intellectual or physical items developed for profit using pirated software will allow the wronged party to sue the company marketing the item.
This means that software publishers will not look kindly on any pirated software held by a team that they are buying a game from. They might even check your software as a formality before buying the game rights from you.
In other words, buy that copy of Max or Maya if you want to be a professional game designer. The last thing you need is to give someone a reason to sue your publisher.
During the process of merging two businesses the purchasing company will often hire a specialised team that will go through all of the computers and equipment in the company being bought looking for pirated software.
Apparently this kind of thing is getting very popular with companies because of legal concerns. From what I've heard, any intellectual or physical items developed for profit using pirated software will allow the wronged party to sue the company marketing the item.
This means that software publishers will not look kindly on any pirated software held by a team that they are buying a game from. They might even check your software as a formality before buying the game rights from you.
In other words, buy that copy of Max or Maya if you want to be a professional game designer. The last thing you need is to give someone a reason to sue your publisher.
#2
As people have already mentioned if you can't afford the big expensive software with all the bells and whistles, then go for the next best thing that you can afford.
If you have yourself setup as a business you can actually get a tax credit (the percentage varies on your location) on the software that you buy or upgrade :)
Finally it is my opinion that if you want to be taken as a serious professional at what you do then maybe its time to act like one and get registered versions of the software that you use.
08/17/2001 (7:23 am)
I fully agree that people should spend the money to get registered versions of software if they intend to charge for their work. This is the honest and right thing to do, and really have no excuse anymore for having pirated software even if you make a dollar off of it. As people have already mentioned if you can't afford the big expensive software with all the bells and whistles, then go for the next best thing that you can afford.
If you have yourself setup as a business you can actually get a tax credit (the percentage varies on your location) on the software that you buy or upgrade :)
Finally it is my opinion that if you want to be taken as a serious professional at what you do then maybe its time to act like one and get registered versions of the software that you use.
#4
Seriously, most game modeling can be accomplished with much cheaper software. The big packages are designed for serious hollywood CG efforts and are priced accordingly. A lot of the features are unnecessary for game design and confuse new 3d modelers.
I doubt if more than half of all 3ds Max programs installed are legitimate, registered programs. Plus you have to watch out for counterfeit stuff now. Piracy is a big reason why companies increase the prices of their software.
A piracy blackmark is almost as bad as a hackers for screwing up your chances of employment. No one wants a guy that could give them a legal headache like that.
08/17/2001 (10:09 pm)
I agree, but from what I have seen on some chat groups and forums, most young designers don't realise this. They think that they are making a statement, or that they can't live without the big program and aren't willing to pay the big bucks. Seriously, most game modeling can be accomplished with much cheaper software. The big packages are designed for serious hollywood CG efforts and are priced accordingly. A lot of the features are unnecessary for game design and confuse new 3d modelers.
I doubt if more than half of all 3ds Max programs installed are legitimate, registered programs. Plus you have to watch out for counterfeit stuff now. Piracy is a big reason why companies increase the prices of their software.
A piracy blackmark is almost as bad as a hackers for screwing up your chances of employment. No one wants a guy that could give them a legal headache like that.
#5
08/17/2001 (10:23 pm)
Tom has an excellent point, there are plenty of free/almost free programs out there that will do just as good of a job at something as the Big Boys will. I think between Milkshape and GIMP, you can do all the everyday stuff that 3DSMax and Photoshop can do, and most of the high end special, i'll-only-use-that-feature-once-but-damn-it'll-look-cool stuff.
#6
I love milkshape and haven't found a game model yet that couldn't be done on it. Plus the poly limitation forces you to model smart and lean, which is a good habit for a game modeler.
I think that Max is a little bit TOO powerful to a new CG artist without formal teaching. It's like drowning in a vat of chocolate. There are so many features in the thing that you develop bad habits and very poly heavy shortcuts like sub-divide or never learn the fundamentals of modeling and just use the toys.
It's sort of like the old timer photoshop users complaining about kids who just use the filters and effects and never bother to actually learn how to use the program. Most companies prefer you not use a lot of effects because they have trouble telling how much is you under all the eye candy.
08/18/2001 (3:35 pm)
Preaching to the choir here.I love milkshape and haven't found a game model yet that couldn't be done on it. Plus the poly limitation forces you to model smart and lean, which is a good habit for a game modeler.
I think that Max is a little bit TOO powerful to a new CG artist without formal teaching. It's like drowning in a vat of chocolate. There are so many features in the thing that you develop bad habits and very poly heavy shortcuts like sub-divide or never learn the fundamentals of modeling and just use the toys.
It's sort of like the old timer photoshop users complaining about kids who just use the filters and effects and never bother to actually learn how to use the program. Most companies prefer you not use a lot of effects because they have trouble telling how much is you under all the eye candy.
#7
I then set about learning how to use it (after all I had paid dearly for the tools), and in time became highly competent at what I did. I now judge international 3D competitions and write articles on Max. I just purchased version 4, as well as purchasing 5 manuals for it, and can honestly say that 3D modeling is the same as anything else. If you pay for it, you treasure it and learn about it. Anyone can download LithTech for free, but you will never bother to learn anthing if you are not serious about what it is you do.
I would also like to thank GarageGames for making their product available. I am purchasing it tommorow morning and will learn diligently how to use it. I was prepared to pay over 10 times the price they charge so I am very happy.
Cris Robson
08/24/2001 (4:36 pm)
I agree with all the above. Getting software that is more and more expensive (pirated) is a good way to stop yourself worrying that your skills are so poor. The pirate thinks instead "I can be so much better if I get a copy of Maya4, then all my stuff will look professional". This is never the case. I too once used pirated software to get results, thinking it would replace skills I didnt have, but in the end sense got the better of me and I purchased a used version of Max 2.5 and paid for a licence to use it. I then set about learning how to use it (after all I had paid dearly for the tools), and in time became highly competent at what I did. I now judge international 3D competitions and write articles on Max. I just purchased version 4, as well as purchasing 5 manuals for it, and can honestly say that 3D modeling is the same as anything else. If you pay for it, you treasure it and learn about it. Anyone can download LithTech for free, but you will never bother to learn anthing if you are not serious about what it is you do.
I would also like to thank GarageGames for making their product available. I am purchasing it tommorow morning and will learn diligently how to use it. I was prepared to pay over 10 times the price they charge so I am very happy.
Cris Robson
#8
I do want to point out that while Milkshape is a cool program, great for doing low poly models for mods, the tutorials for it are kind of sparse if you want to do anything but FPS mods of a game. Whereas with 3D studo max, the included tutorials in R4 can give you a semesters worth of decent learning experience. Not to mention all the great professional looking and free tutorials you can get for it on the web.
I'd also like to point out that todays bells and whistles become tomorrow's industry standards. Where was skeletal animation 5 years ago? It was in Character Studio. Now every game has it. Does Milkshape have IK, or dynamics, morphers and procedural textures? I'd bet at least a couple of those will be industry standards in 5 years. (ok, that's kinda cheating since I already know 2 of the are :) ) And we already seeing support in DX8 and OpenGL1.2, and the current crop of hardware for hardware tesselation, higher-order primatives, vertex skinning, pixel shaders, etc.
So, my point is, if you can't afford Max to make your game, you'll get everything you need out of Milkshape. But if you're trying to learn how to do modeling and you're 15, like half this board is, and you parents are gonna be supporting you a few more years at least, why not learn the industry standard API... especially when it's such a complex UI to understand, and there's so much good material out there for you.
Note, I'm not advocating software piracy. But I'm also not prepared to say that $1000 bucks for an educational copy is a fair deal.
08/29/2001 (5:44 am)
Hopefully, this dicussion will be moot once gMax comes out. (is that still in the works at discreet?)I do want to point out that while Milkshape is a cool program, great for doing low poly models for mods, the tutorials for it are kind of sparse if you want to do anything but FPS mods of a game. Whereas with 3D studo max, the included tutorials in R4 can give you a semesters worth of decent learning experience. Not to mention all the great professional looking and free tutorials you can get for it on the web.
I'd also like to point out that todays bells and whistles become tomorrow's industry standards. Where was skeletal animation 5 years ago? It was in Character Studio. Now every game has it. Does Milkshape have IK, or dynamics, morphers and procedural textures? I'd bet at least a couple of those will be industry standards in 5 years. (ok, that's kinda cheating since I already know 2 of the are :) ) And we already seeing support in DX8 and OpenGL1.2, and the current crop of hardware for hardware tesselation, higher-order primatives, vertex skinning, pixel shaders, etc.
So, my point is, if you can't afford Max to make your game, you'll get everything you need out of Milkshape. But if you're trying to learn how to do modeling and you're 15, like half this board is, and you parents are gonna be supporting you a few more years at least, why not learn the industry standard API... especially when it's such a complex UI to understand, and there's so much good material out there for you.
Note, I'm not advocating software piracy. But I'm also not prepared to say that $1000 bucks for an educational copy is a fair deal.
#9
08/29/2001 (3:12 pm)
Take these thoughts another step. I know for a fact that not everybody that played TRIBES 1 bought the copy they were using. But maybe the $40 bucks it cost at its highest was too much. Why not look for a cool alternative in the independant market. That is one of the things I like about Garage Games. I bet in a while you will be able to find some cool stuff here that is free, so you don't have to go out and steal games. If some big comopany wants to charge you $60 for their big hit game, find one here that is comperable and free. The same can be said for a lot of other products. Don't be dictated by the norm. Use OpenBSD instead of windows. I don't know just a thought.
#10
08/29/2001 (4:33 pm)
there is always ebaY for great deals. That is if you can wait. I would rather wait on most of these buggy or incomplete games that come out and get a great price. (sin)(Deus-ex)
#11
At least make the DMCA work for you for once.
09/03/2001 (4:39 am)
Not to sound cynical or anything, but anyone is concerned with piracy of their software, can't you just put a simple ceaser cipher encryption on the software. So, anybody cracking it can be tried under the horrible, heavy handed DMCA.At least make the DMCA work for you for once.
#12
Most of the time the people who break encryption don't intend to use the cracks, they just do it for fun. Most of them are hard core mathematicians and code monkeys who get a high off of breaking 'unbreakable' encryption. I guarantee that there will be a cracked version of your game within a week of it's release date. Also you have the people in other countries who do it for profit. Try shopping in Iran, Singapore or Russia sometime, the places are full of pirates selling warez in factory fresh boxes that look authentic.
Also programs like Safedisk add a level of complexity to your program. A lot of drives are incompatible with copy protection schemes. Use the wrong one and you WILL get flooded with tech support e-mails from people like me who got the wrong CD or DVD player with their computer and have to either return the game or crack the protection just to play it. The Version 36 Unreal Tournament patch has a NODELTA version that disables the copy protection for this reason
09/03/2001 (11:01 am)
I can show you a few dozen sites and people who devote their time to breaking ciphers and cd protectors. Program cracking has been alive and well in it's current state as long as wide scale copy protection has been around, since at least the c-64 and apple II. Most of the time the people who break encryption don't intend to use the cracks, they just do it for fun. Most of them are hard core mathematicians and code monkeys who get a high off of breaking 'unbreakable' encryption. I guarantee that there will be a cracked version of your game within a week of it's release date. Also you have the people in other countries who do it for profit. Try shopping in Iran, Singapore or Russia sometime, the places are full of pirates selling warez in factory fresh boxes that look authentic.
Also programs like Safedisk add a level of complexity to your program. A lot of drives are incompatible with copy protection schemes. Use the wrong one and you WILL get flooded with tech support e-mails from people like me who got the wrong CD or DVD player with their computer and have to either return the game or crack the protection just to play it. The Version 36 Unreal Tournament patch has a NODELTA version that disables the copy protection for this reason
#13
12/19/2005 (8:32 pm)
Why don't people just use blender. It has an exporter and it is free. Blender 2.4 has a lot of new stuff such as hair. but we don't nedd that do we. :)
#15
12/19/2005 (10:58 pm)
Blender was around a lot longer than that...
#16
12/20/2005 (9:50 am)
It wasn't free in 2001 though. The main point was that there was little need to reply to such an old thread.
#18
The 3dsmax license is not transferable :) (not when the 2.5 was out)
Piracy is bad. But if piracy doesn't exist, software like 3dsmax won't even exist...
You can't compare a software of 20$ and a software of 5-10 000 $
The marketing strategie are different.
Piracy is good for expensif software, if people who makes money with it, pay, and people who learn, don't pay it.
If every body have access to this software, there will be a community. when someone ask a 3D artist which software to buy, they will answer the software he knows..
Imagine if every student buy every the software he use. He will surely take blender instead of 3dsmax...
When he get hire by a compagny, if he can choose the software, he will choose blender...
A 3dsmax license not sold :)
There is education license for a purpose.
For a 50$ licence every body can buy it. The target is everybody, and not only big compagny.
This is of course bad if people used it without paying it :)
A copy protection is usefull for "newbies". newbies don't know place where to get crack.
People don't use blender, because blender is productive oritended, and not easy to use.
The interface is for a programmer (that's an artist tool ..).
12/20/2005 (10:30 am)
You can't buy a used copy of 3dsmax...The 3dsmax license is not transferable :) (not when the 2.5 was out)
Piracy is bad. But if piracy doesn't exist, software like 3dsmax won't even exist...
You can't compare a software of 20$ and a software of 5-10 000 $
The marketing strategie are different.
Piracy is good for expensif software, if people who makes money with it, pay, and people who learn, don't pay it.
If every body have access to this software, there will be a community. when someone ask a 3D artist which software to buy, they will answer the software he knows..
Imagine if every student buy every the software he use. He will surely take blender instead of 3dsmax...
When he get hire by a compagny, if he can choose the software, he will choose blender...
A 3dsmax license not sold :)
There is education license for a purpose.
For a 50$ licence every body can buy it. The target is everybody, and not only big compagny.
This is of course bad if people used it without paying it :)
A copy protection is usefull for "newbies". newbies don't know place where to get crack.
People don't use blender, because blender is productive oritended, and not easy to use.
The interface is for a programmer (that's an artist tool ..).
#19
12/20/2005 (11:07 am)
3dsmax license was transferable when 2.5 was out. That's how I got my 2.5 back in the day - I bought a used copy on ebay, and transferred the license, with their blessing.
#20
12/22/2005 (6:21 pm)
Lightwave licenses are transferable. 
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