Is self publishing a game via the internet still viable?
by Edward Royce · in General Discussion · 08/13/2003 (10:45 am) · 13 replies
I'm a pretty experienced software developer that has mostly worked in large scale business software development. I'm starting to branch out into games because I've always liked writing them for myself. The problem is that, having done some research, I view publishing contracts as something similar to indentured servitude, with some extra misery tacked on just for kicks. Just thinking of how returns work and how they are charged back makes my skin crawl.
Yet Id distributed Doom over the internet, bypassed the whole publisher/slave issue and make a bundle on it as well.
Is this a still viable route?
Thanks!
ed
Yet Id distributed Doom over the internet, bypassed the whole publisher/slave issue and make a bundle on it as well.
Is this a still viable route?
Thanks!
ed
#2
In the case of this post though I was thinking of a game design that integrates an RTS/FPS that I nicknamed "Pressure". The desired market are people who enjoy playing in online clans in either RTS and/or FPS games. The design of the game is such that people can either play one side (RTS) or the other (FPS) or both. In addition I'm looking to create server code that would allow players to host multiple concurrent games so that players could quickly jump from one game to another. In essence I'm looking bridge the gap between RTS players and FPS players that would like to play together, but cannot.
My feeling, from doing some research, is that I'm not all that interested in going the established publishing route. I'd much rather have a polished game and then sell it for $20 USD, or even $10 USD with a low cost distribution channel. From what I've read selling a game online for $10 USD can sometimes net more profit because you won't have to worry about any return chargebacks.
My question really is about whether a game can be commerically successful without any retail shelf presence. I know that Id had a lot of commerical success going that route, but I haven't heard of anyone else doing the same since then. On the other hand CS had no retail presence at all and it became an incredible hit.
Could a non-retail game hit the 1,000,000 copy mark? :/ Not that I'm planning on that level of sales, but how badly would I be hurting myself by avoiding the publishing route?
ed
08/13/2003 (12:25 pm)
Actually there are a number of different games that I'm currently planning out. Mostly just playing around right now while I establish some baseline experience with the different technologies that I'll need to depend on. I'm not all that interested in putting in a lot of work only to find out, at the last minute, that an assumption was horribly wrong.In the case of this post though I was thinking of a game design that integrates an RTS/FPS that I nicknamed "Pressure". The desired market are people who enjoy playing in online clans in either RTS and/or FPS games. The design of the game is such that people can either play one side (RTS) or the other (FPS) or both. In addition I'm looking to create server code that would allow players to host multiple concurrent games so that players could quickly jump from one game to another. In essence I'm looking bridge the gap between RTS players and FPS players that would like to play together, but cannot.
My feeling, from doing some research, is that I'm not all that interested in going the established publishing route. I'd much rather have a polished game and then sell it for $20 USD, or even $10 USD with a low cost distribution channel. From what I've read selling a game online for $10 USD can sometimes net more profit because you won't have to worry about any return chargebacks.
My question really is about whether a game can be commerically successful without any retail shelf presence. I know that Id had a lot of commerical success going that route, but I haven't heard of anyone else doing the same since then. On the other hand CS had no retail presence at all and it became an incredible hit.
Could a non-retail game hit the 1,000,000 copy mark? :/ Not that I'm planning on that level of sales, but how badly would I be hurting myself by avoiding the publishing route?
ed
#3
I found this thread very helpful when it came to building realistic sales expectations.
www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=11500
John.
08/14/2003 (10:19 am)
Ed,I found this thread very helpful when it came to building realistic sales expectations.
www.garagegames.com/mg/forums/result.thread.php?qt=11500
John.
#4
Honestly I don't expect much in sales and I don't care either way. I'm more interested in coding/playing the game for myself and my friends. But, considering all the work that's going to go into it, I was a bit hesitant about which path to take. It might seem a bit pretentious to talk about this prior to actually having a product, but I prefer having these sort of questions answered early.
Aftrer reading all that I'm pretty certain that I won't have to worry about generating millions of dollars in sales :). But I'm still a bit anxious about people being willing to download my games. I suppose that people do that nowadays, they calls them "patches", so I guess it's acceptable.
I guess I'll just have to shelve the question until/when things get done. The conditions might change so who knows.
Thanks all!
ed
08/14/2003 (10:47 am)
Hey thanks!Honestly I don't expect much in sales and I don't care either way. I'm more interested in coding/playing the game for myself and my friends. But, considering all the work that's going to go into it, I was a bit hesitant about which path to take. It might seem a bit pretentious to talk about this prior to actually having a product, but I prefer having these sort of questions answered early.
Aftrer reading all that I'm pretty certain that I won't have to worry about generating millions of dollars in sales :). But I'm still a bit anxious about people being willing to download my games. I suppose that people do that nowadays, they calls them "patches", so I guess it's acceptable.
I guess I'll just have to shelve the question until/when things get done. The conditions might change so who knows.
Thanks all!
ed
#5
I strongly believe that you can make a good living from developing and publishing original games over the internet.
I believe this strongly enough to leave a job in traditional development to pursue this goal.
I dont do it out of simple blind faith, I do it because I am aware of several developers already doing the same thing, I do it because I have a need to produce original games AND more importantly, to own the rights to exploit the games.
Simply put, publishers are interested in work-for-hire developers who cost them as little as possible and who they can push around, I am simply not interested in that.
So to answer the question, yes, I think it IS still viable, now more so than ever before.
Phil.
08/14/2003 (10:55 am)
Edward, the question is kind of null really, if you COULD go the publishing route, then you wouldnt be asking about self-publishing. Although I dont agree that going the route of using a publisher is a great move for everyone, neither is doing self-publishing.I strongly believe that you can make a good living from developing and publishing original games over the internet.
I believe this strongly enough to leave a job in traditional development to pursue this goal.
I dont do it out of simple blind faith, I do it because I am aware of several developers already doing the same thing, I do it because I have a need to produce original games AND more importantly, to own the rights to exploit the games.
Simply put, publishers are interested in work-for-hire developers who cost them as little as possible and who they can push around, I am simply not interested in that.
So to answer the question, yes, I think it IS still viable, now more so than ever before.
Phil.
#6
(Warning: This isn't very well thought out)
Let's say I want to build my own website to sell my own games.
Can I build something like this with Yahoo!'s WebSite Builder or Microsoft Publisher? And then maybe use PayPal to handle the purchasing side?
Like I said, not very well thought out, but hopefully someone will get the idea and steer me in the right direction.
08/19/2003 (11:17 am)
Okay, so here's a question.(Warning: This isn't very well thought out)
Let's say I want to build my own website to sell my own games.
Can I build something like this with Yahoo!'s WebSite Builder or Microsoft Publisher? And then maybe use PayPal to handle the purchasing side?
Like I said, not very well thought out, but hopefully someone will get the idea and steer me in the right direction.
#8
What are my alternatives?
08/19/2003 (12:06 pm)
OMG! This is too much. Is this for real? I've used paypal before and have even applied for a paypal credit card(VISA) which was approved. I'll crap my pants if I get screwed here. That's it, paypal gets the ass wipe. Everything paypal is coming off my system.What are my alternatives?
#9
Is PayPal still useful? Very probably yes. A great many people are very iffy on the idea of spreading their credit card numbers around so PayPal offers an decent medium. You might not be hurting yourself by not using PayPal, but then again you might.
As for Yahoo! It's a decent alternative.
The monthly cost of $50 or so and the per transaction charge might seem a bit high, but you also get their payment gateway (so you can do credit card orders) and the potential of additional shoppers browsing within the Yahoo! network.
Keep in mind that if you went and did everything yourself that the charges wouldn't be all that different. To do automated CC charges requires a Payment Gateway. This Gateway, such as Verisign, will cost about $200 initial fee + $50 per month just for the privledge of charging credit cards. Then there's the transaction fees to process the charges and the inevitable issues of fraud and charge-backs.
:/ I could go on and on about this as it gets fairly involved. But I won't bore you.
Fact is that you should determine how you want to do things based entirely on what budget you have and what kind sales mechanism you are looking to put into place. Joining the Yahoo! network does have some advantages, but it'll also cost you a minimum of $600.00 USD per year. If you can't generate enough sales to cover that amount, then it'll be a losing proposition. If that's not attractive then you might want to hit another venue.
A possible alternative is http://www.ebaystore.com where you can start off with a bargain price of $10 per month. After that you pay on a per item/month basis that's pretty low. So your initial costs are reasonable. Additionally you can link a unique URL to your store so if you want to open a site called http://www.slapmybutt.com, you can still do so and have visitors end up in your Ebay store.
A downside is that visitors to Ebay itself won't find your store when they do searches. But you can link your store to any auctions you might open. *shrug* there are some other tradeoffs and features that bear looking at.
Who knows. You might find that you prefer simply to use Ebay itself. God knows that there are stranger things than software being sold on Ebay.
:)
I hoped that help a little. If it's a little disorganized I'm sorry, today seems to be crisis day and I'm getting a little rushed.
ed
08/19/2003 (1:30 pm)
The basic problem with PayPal was that it acted like a bank, but without any of the regulatory oversight or restrictions that banks must normally follow. PayPal also had some extremely dubious, and very likely illegal, practices most involving charge-backs. A charge-back for PayPal is when a customer contacts PayPal and desires a refund. PayPal used to simply raid the vendor's account to return the money to the customer with little notification and no redress. As these accounts were usually directly tied to a bank account, this made for serious problems, in addition to the problem of the customer having both the goods and the money. I have heard that PayPal has altered it's practices and cleaned itself up. Mostly due to the intervention of local district attorneys and federal bank regulators. Or so I believe.Is PayPal still useful? Very probably yes. A great many people are very iffy on the idea of spreading their credit card numbers around so PayPal offers an decent medium. You might not be hurting yourself by not using PayPal, but then again you might.
As for Yahoo! It's a decent alternative.
The monthly cost of $50 or so and the per transaction charge might seem a bit high, but you also get their payment gateway (so you can do credit card orders) and the potential of additional shoppers browsing within the Yahoo! network.
Keep in mind that if you went and did everything yourself that the charges wouldn't be all that different. To do automated CC charges requires a Payment Gateway. This Gateway, such as Verisign, will cost about $200 initial fee + $50 per month just for the privledge of charging credit cards. Then there's the transaction fees to process the charges and the inevitable issues of fraud and charge-backs.
:/ I could go on and on about this as it gets fairly involved. But I won't bore you.
Fact is that you should determine how you want to do things based entirely on what budget you have and what kind sales mechanism you are looking to put into place. Joining the Yahoo! network does have some advantages, but it'll also cost you a minimum of $600.00 USD per year. If you can't generate enough sales to cover that amount, then it'll be a losing proposition. If that's not attractive then you might want to hit another venue.
A possible alternative is http://www.ebaystore.com where you can start off with a bargain price of $10 per month. After that you pay on a per item/month basis that's pretty low. So your initial costs are reasonable. Additionally you can link a unique URL to your store so if you want to open a site called http://www.slapmybutt.com, you can still do so and have visitors end up in your Ebay store.
A downside is that visitors to Ebay itself won't find your store when they do searches. But you can link your store to any auctions you might open. *shrug* there are some other tradeoffs and features that bear looking at.
Who knows. You might find that you prefer simply to use Ebay itself. God knows that there are stranger things than software being sold on Ebay.
:)
I hoped that help a little. If it's a little disorganized I'm sorry, today seems to be crisis day and I'm getting a little rushed.
ed
#10
http://www.regsoft.com/index.shtml
http://www.digibuy.com/
I haven't used either of them yet, but I may do so in the future.
Their most important feature is that they allow people to use credit cards to buy games.
Regsoft looks like it's marginally better than digibuy, but I haven't looked into them much yet.
08/19/2003 (4:14 pm)
These sites sell the games for you at a reasonable fee:http://www.regsoft.com/index.shtml
http://www.digibuy.com/
I haven't used either of them yet, but I may do so in the future.
Their most important feature is that they allow people to use credit cards to buy games.
Regsoft looks like it's marginally better than digibuy, but I haven't looked into them much yet.
#11
I suppose both sites leave the copy protection and hacker prevention stuff up to the developer, unlike GG with the Ignition system.
Even still, it's worth looking into.
Edward,
Thanks for the input. Good stuff to consider, I'll keep it all in mind when I weigh my options.
08/19/2003 (7:04 pm)
Steve,I suppose both sites leave the copy protection and hacker prevention stuff up to the developer, unlike GG with the Ignition system.
Even still, it's worth looking into.
Edward,
Thanks for the input. Good stuff to consider, I'll keep it all in mind when I weigh my options.
#12
I suppose both sites leave the copy protection and hacker prevention stuff up to the developer, unlike GG with the Ignition system.
Even still, it's worth looking into.
Edward,
Thanks for the input. Good stuff to consider, I'll keep it all in mind when I weigh my options.
08/19/2003 (7:06 pm)
Steve,I suppose both sites leave the copy protection and hacker prevention stuff up to the developer, unlike GG with the Ignition system.
Even still, it's worth looking into.
Edward,
Thanks for the input. Good stuff to consider, I'll keep it all in mind when I weigh my options.
John DiCamillo