How bad is iTorque?

#1 Andrea, I think we would all agree that iTorque 1.4 is far from perfect. In terms of usage it depends on how experienced a developer you are and how prepared you might be to get your hands dirty and go under the covers to fix things. If you are a beginner then my advice for now would be to work through the tutorials in TGB on the Mac/PC (this stuff pretty much works) and wait for 1.4.1 which will fix some of the more pernicious bugs.

#2 I know Obj-C and I have a good programming experience but I don't want to get my hands dirty covering Torque problem.
I think I'll wait for a better version.

PS: other opinion?

#3 I agree with scott.
if you hope that all will work out of the box, iTorque is the wrong platform for you, cause I don't see that happen, neither anytime soon nor ever at all. We have been waiting for soon 2 years or so (since release of IT2D) to get a single release that just works and it has not happened and I'm not going to bet that it ever will but would be willing to bet against it.

But its a fine tech and base for your project if you are a developer and have some background on the materia so you can kick the problems. also for most of the probs there is a thread with a user sharing the solution for example.


if you want "go in and just work" then Cocos2D is the first adress for iphone 2D development actually.
But you lose the editor and scripting among other things so it has its drawbacks

#4 I'm able to code but I need some info before to buy.
There're any common problem for the iTorque game

#5 This is my personal experience, but if you are working solely on a Mac like I am, then you want to avoid using TorqueScript as much as possible. You want to code as much as you can in C++. For one thing, you cannot debug the scripts at all. Also, when I moved my game over from script to C++, I gained a HUGE increase in frame rate. Once you get used to developing on iPhone and Torque, you can get prototypes working really quick. However, documentation is rather sparse, so you'll need to be active on these forums. In fact, Scott and Marc above are huge contributors to the forums here and have helped me out quite a bit :)

#6 the engine itself etc are documented through the TGB documentation though which widely applies and saves a lot of headache. same goes for the TGB area on the TDN

#7

Quote:For one thing, you cannot debug the scripts at all.

I'm sorry, but that just isn't right - There are plenty of ways of getting Torsion working on a Mac. You are however perfectly correct in stating that you want to use C++ rather than script where possible.

#8 Unity is looking so hot, I'm checking it out-
Just checking back in after a while to see if anything has improved
I guess not

#9 @Craig: Yeah, I probably should have said, "You cannot debug the scripts, as far as I'm aware of." :)

#10 Last question.
There's any trial version for iTorque2D?

#11 No, as it is a source based technology, no trial yet.
the only trial is the one on the desktop.

#12 Currently we do not have a trial version of iT2D. The closest thing we have for that right now is just T2D which gives you the best idea of what the interface will be like as they're the same with some iDevice platform specific additions.

#13 Andrea, to answer your question, I don't think iT2D is that bad as described in different posts.

I agree is far from perfect as Scott says, but we managed to release a game with little experience in the field (game dev). If you are a developer (I am experienced Java dev), it should be your daily job facing problem to solve. Many time I had issues but I always found a solution by searching in the forum. Of course you don't find the perfect answer but the information available will guide you to make certain choice that most of the time end up to be right. If not, you try a different route.

We are planning another game with iTGB1.4 (that is the version used for our game WIP) and if we didn't trust the engine we wouldn't make this choice.

I think that any engine will have their problems, you just need to be prepared to problem solving.

Of course, as many of us, I will appreciate a 1.4.1 release soon :D!

#14 Unless you specifically need to use version 1.4 because of it's features I would recommend using version 1.3. I've been using version 1.3.1 for a few months and I haven't had any problems at all. There are some minor bugs but I've always found an easy fix by just searching the forums. As long as you appreciate and accept that it probably won't work out of the box without some tweaking, and you have some programming experience, I don't think you'll have any major problems. I'm not an experienced game developer, but I haven't had any major issues that have stopped my development for more than a few hours.

If you have the initiative to experiment a bit and try stuff on your own, and have some prgramming skills, I think you'll do ok with iTorque.

#15 I have C++/C#/JavaScript/Obj-C(really good) skill, I'm also learning/bought TGB.
I know how to solve problem and if iTorque work good with some code tweek I'll buy it when my GameSalad subscrption will expire.
Thanks to all and if you have some advice please post.

#16 If you are able to do the code tweeks which you seem to be with your background, then yes, no reason to advice against going with iTorque.

Especially if you so far enjoyed the limited non expandable world of GameSalad (they would have a fine technology if they wouldn't lack / Pro limit features that even GameMaker 8 has and that are seen as basic standard feature by Apple)

#17 @Scott Burns
Saying to base your buying decision on your experience in using T2D is the worst advice you can give to anyone. That's the same advice all of us that pre-ordered iTGB had. iTorque is NOT T2D, as the latter actually works out of the box.

Repeat: iTorque is NOT T2D, stop saying otherwise to your future customers.

@Andrea
If you're well versed in Obj-C, I suggest looking at cocos2d. On the other hand, Unity3d iPhone ($400) + SpriteManager2($99) will handle pretty much all your 2d needs. Not only that, you'll also have a 3d engine ready if you suddenly had an inkling of trying out 3d game dev.

There are also other plug-ins made by the community that will handle things like Social Networking, Multiplayer, Ads, Game Center, easy access to the mic, easy access to the iTunes library for just a few dollars ($5 - $50 depending on the complexity of the plug-in). It will save you a lot of time from project concept to completion.

Skip iTorque until they have a permanent team handling this engine, you're just wasting your money.

P.S. I'd say Marc is the most knowledgeable with this engine and Unity. He's very active here and also on the other board. I'd listen to him more than anyone else. In fact, he's the only one that actually stuck by this engine, everyone else already left.

#18 @Ee - You left out that if you want the full iOS support and features, you are actually shelling out $3,000 for Unity Pro and iOS Pro. The differences between basic and pro Unity is a joke, feature wise.

Also, you mention the paid plug-ins, which our community pretty much provides for free. Regarding SpriteManager2...cool tool, but you are still not getting a true 2D development environment and the tool has a long way to go due to its "cons".

#19 @Ee
No where in there did I say that iTorque was T2D. Just that their interfaces are similar and it is the only option we currently have for a trial due to iT2D being such a heavily source based product.

#20 Micheal is right that for 2D development, the $3000 definitely would be a waste, you don't get any feature from it nor need any feature from the Pro ones commonly, the the normal iOS license is for 2D development enough actually.

Also he is right, its no full 2D development environment, but he omits the fact that even if Unity has 3D physics for example (physx powered) it at least has physics, while GarageGames / Instant Actions have still not addressed one of the major problems, since day -1 actually (as it was known already on the desktop years ago in relation to 1.5ghz + intel gpu systems and alike), and thats namely its so called physics capabilities.
This is especially sad as users already in 1.1 days did tests with box2d (as some are doing now again), that have shown how much more iT2D could and would shine if they finally got rid of if their inhouse solution that was outdated years ago already (it was done for the original T2D which later after release became TGB and now is shifting back to T2D again).
Thats one of the few major problems I see with iTorque, that they make a lot of ruckus about things but forget the fundamentals: that 2d on the iphone often ends with innovative games if its not a casual games and that innovative games are, if you don't hook up box2d or chipmunks yourself, just impossible with torque thanks to the broken and slow hacktogether physics present.

And yes GG knows very well about it, the first blog on the real Torque2D on the desktop WAS exactly about it using box2d instead of in-house hacky doo.


Good thing is the sources allow you to do exactly such things :)
And yes its also clear that above yields from personal frustration. Have had my own game move engines twice now, from Unity to torque back to unity, just cause the iTorque has laughable multitouch support (impossible to touch a track at all as they only push through coordinates, no identifiers etc) and a horrible physics performance which are the two major backbones ...
will give it a go with another concept idea I want to prototype, which luckily is ipad only, so I will hopefully be able to work around 2/3 of the probs due to just not needing them