XBLA contract: The How to guide?

#1 Yep, it's tough. And unless you have your own capital you need financial backing to get on XBLA. XBLA has substantial costs that you will need to address, such as devkits, language translation, and QA. To put it in context you could throw 50k at those tasks just on their own. So if you want to get an investor or publisher onboard you will need to convince them that your game (and your team) has what it takes.

Unless you already have a proven track record you should expect to offer them a polished demo (and I do mean polished - remember how much they are needing to invest), or better yet an almost completed game. Also be prepared for them to want to negotiate a pretty steep % for themselves.

#2 There are also a few investors around who are 'indies who made it big' and who want to help other indies make it too. Such as: indie-fund.com/about/

#3 How much capital are we talking about. I heard its roughly 10 000.

#4 The average XBLA game has around a 500,000 dollar budget. (from a producer who has been through the process).

#5 Is that for the labor or just the fees involved. I was under the impression that 10 000 was the fees involved of actually getting on the service.

#6 It depends on your game - 10k is a bit on the low side really. Technically speaking 10k may be enough to get you onto the service, but it's unlikely to be enough to get your game published. Multiple devkits, translation, and QA costs need to be factored in as well (the 50k figure I gave previously was not including programming, art, audio, project management, etc - I assumed you were doing all that stuff in-house).

#7 $10k is just the cost of the special Xbox setup from what I understand. ESRB ratings alone are +/- $2500.

You need a publisher, who is already on XBLA or you need MS as your publisher. You probably have at least $50k just in MS certification.

#8 @ Duncan - Yes In theory I would do everything in-house. Braid was made by two people, it took 4 years, but still by 2 people.

@ Henry - What exactly do the xbox setup costs entail? Also this article says that there are roughly 130 certifications to get through to get on XBLA and 20 for XBLIG

www.binarytweed.com/2010/04/xbla-vs-xblig.html

#9 I may be wrong but iirc Braid also cost them about 200K to produce.

#10 Hmm interesting reading.

I've been contacting and chatting with a few of the bigger XBLIG names (Mommy's Best, Silva, Mediatronic, etc) In almost all cases they've stated the Greenlighting process takes a looong time and the costs are pretty phenomenal. I'm thinking the Silva route is the best; just keep on releasing game after game after game until somebody somewhere picks you up.

I would say going for a PSP Mini title would be easier than an XBLA title,(the dev kit is only 1,500 dollars) but then you have to go through Sony's QA and Age rating and that's darned tight.At the moment I guess best choice is to XBLIG it, Appstore it and then think on for attracting enough attention for PSN or XBLA.

Throw enough shit against a wall and eventually it will stick.

#11 The 500k figure I gave was everything, Labor, Rent, Fees, ect...

I'm sure it could be done for less, as I said this was the "average" according to a producer I work with. An unrelated but surprising thing was he told me DS games actually cost a lot more to make due to the amount of time that is spent optimizing and such.

I also can't speak to Arcade but I know with AAA titles it cost 20,000 just to get Microsoft to look at your game for approval. If they don't approve your game for any reason its another 20,000.

They don't make it easy for the little guy.

#12 So if you get on the XBLA service do you think that you would make the money back that you spent?

@Matt do you work in the industry?

So far Im sticking with XBLIG. But I feel there is too big of a gap between XBLA and XBLIG. Personally there needs to be 3 tiers on the service.

1. XBLA
2. XBLIG
3. Community Games.

If your game isn't good enough to get into XBLIG it goes into community games.

#13 Heya John. Ya I've worked on Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, and various unannouced projects.

Consoles have a high barrior to entry saddly. It is pretty much required that you get investors unless your independently wealthy ;).

Good luck.

#14 All the information yoy are asking for are under NDA so you cannot get it (I signed that Microsoft NDA).

All the figures you find around forums are word of mouth and nothing more.

All info that can actually be given are as follows:

-1- Be prepared to wait weeks (sometimes months) in between the emails with Microsoft.
-2- Be aware that there are entry costs involved and that the title certification process is not free at all.

No more can be said. I can safely add that to approach XBLA publishing is like to decide to buy a quite good car: you have to get some nice cash and be sure to be able to continue getting a loan or being funded. A good car, not a house ;)

#15 I also believe there should be 3 tiers as John suggests

1. XBLA
2. XBLIG
3. Community Games.

It would definitely boost XBLIG sales, keep the apps off, and set a standard for XBLIG.

I think it should be very obvious to us, if one should try to go XBLA with their game :-) If it is obvious, then there shouldnt be much problems finding a publisher or funds.

#16 Because of the rules you can't fail somebody for having a bad game. I don't see that changing anytime soon. XBLIG is kinda a FFA. It takes the shotgun effect to video game production.

#17 I'm a bit confused by the situation myself. For instance, Lumi, a game that probably by rights is good enough to be an Arcade game of some sort, with an achievement system in place possibly, was on the Market as soon as the DBP competition was over. I'm extremely surprised by this, I would think the developer's would have at least tried to get MS to allow them the opportunity to make changes so they could possibly cross over and get more publicity.

This poses a question, how difficult is it to go from XBLIG to XBLA, can an indie game cross over, and how good would it have to be to make microsoft take notice, and change their system so that this game can be accepted into the main stream.

I think only time will tell, and it will take a game of remarkable quality, and even in that circumstance, quite a bit of luck to make the cross over. Its not just a gap that must be crossed, it is a chasm of unknown dimensions.

#18 And thats just it. Its a really large chasm. That game Lumi looks really really good. Its too bad it can't get on XBLA. Anyway, glut and saturation on the Xbox is not actually that compared to

27 million books on Amazon
13 million tracks on itunes
200 000 apps on the app store.
~3000 games for the xbox?
1300 XBLIGs

That's pretty good.

#19 @Will: it's not that simple. Have you noticed "Tank Battles" by Gameloft right now in review on XBLIG (again after I failed it)? Gameloft has that title on the PS3, so why it's on XBLIG instead of going straight to XBLA? Well... Microsoft manages the 360 Retail and XBLA portfolio. It doesn't matter how good your game is, it has also to fit Microsoft's marketing plans, and it's not that simple, really ;)

#20 I see XBLIG taking the same course as youtube. In 2005 very few professionals wanted to upload stuff. It was considered "cheap". I see that big studios have the same bad attitude towards XBLIG. Personally I see big opportunity in XBLIG.