iTGB TGB Cross Pollination Bad?
by rennie moffat · in iTorque 2D · 09/13/2010 (1:52 pm) · 22 replies
Hi there,
I am wondering if a project is created in iTGB 1.3, then opened and edited, by accident in TGB, if there will be a problem going back to iTGB. You see, I built my game 90% in iTGB, but believe I did a bit in TGB. Now when I go back to iTGB, the project crashes.
Any thoughts?
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I am wondering if a project is created in iTGB 1.3, then opened and edited, by accident in TGB, if there will be a problem going back to iTGB. You see, I built my game 90% in iTGB, but believe I did a bit in TGB. Now when I go back to iTGB, the project crashes.
Any thoughts?
Thread locked by moderator. If you wish to dispute this action, please contact moderators@torquepowered.com.
About the author
My thanks to Garage Games and the Garage Games Community combined with owned determination I got one game up, Temple Racer and I am looking to build more interesting, fun games for the mass market of the iOS app store.
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#2
to debug any device related code you are expected to have some reasonable experience with c / c++ code development and GCC related terms as well as reading stack traces though
09/13/2010 (2:13 pm)
yes the crash report tells you whats going on.to debug any device related code you are expected to have some reasonable experience with c / c++ code development and GCC related terms as well as reading stack traces though
#3
09/13/2010 (4:03 pm)
Ok so research "Stack traces"? 
#4
I agree with Marc on this. I would say you need to properly learn how to program etc or else you are going to be constantly reliant on people on the forums for dealing with every issue you come into. I appreciate your enthusiasm but you really need to couple this with some "good ol' book learnin'!
09/13/2010 (5:25 pm)
Rennie, you've been pulled up before for asking equally fundamental things...I agree with Marc on this. I would say you need to properly learn how to program etc or else you are going to be constantly reliant on people on the forums for dealing with every issue you come into. I appreciate your enthusiasm but you really need to couple this with some "good ol' book learnin'!
#5
A simply yes or no would do. Lectures are not my thing.... having said that I hears yah, keep in mind I did just start programming officially just over a year ago. I think I have it down good in terms of making objects "do stuff". Where I will need to learn in the coming years is the mechanics of the engine. It is much better if I man can fix his own car vs paying a mechanic.
09/13/2010 (5:55 pm)
right so, look up stack traces in this case? A simply yes or no would do. Lectures are not my thing.... having said that I hears yah, keep in mind I did just start programming officially just over a year ago. I think I have it down good in terms of making objects "do stuff". Where I will need to learn in the coming years is the mechanics of the engine. It is much better if I man can fix his own car vs paying a mechanic.
#6
Short answer: no. Don't research stack traces. Use your old version!
09/13/2010 (6:09 pm)
If the answer to your question requires more than a dozen paragraphs of information, you tend to get a reply like "learn some fundamentals".Short answer: no. Don't research stack traces. Use your old version!
#7
09/13/2010 (6:45 pm)
old version? 
#8
Once you have something working ... take a backup.
Better still, learn how to use a source code control system like Subversion
subversion.apache.org/
This will allow you to "make a backup" of stuff that works and roll back when you encounter problems such as those you are now seeing.
Alternatively, you have a Mac, so why not fire up Time Machine - this way you can try something out, if it all goes horribly wrong then load up Time Machine and go back to yesterday's backup.
Apologies if you are already doing any of the above.
Above all else, keep going and don't give up ;-)
09/13/2010 (10:03 pm)
Rennie, a top tip from my 30 years of programming ...Once you have something working ... take a backup.
Better still, learn how to use a source code control system like Subversion
subversion.apache.org/
This will allow you to "make a backup" of stuff that works and roll back when you encounter problems such as those you are now seeing.
Alternatively, you have a Mac, so why not fire up Time Machine - this way you can try something out, if it all goes horribly wrong then load up Time Machine and go back to yesterday's backup.
Apologies if you are already doing any of the above.
Above all else, keep going and don't give up ;-)
#9
I had completed a major stage of pooling all tileObjects in my levels. So by doing so I cut 80% of my objects out of my levels, and not effecting gameplay... except for increased computation. I was running into problems tho... I think it may have been routed in the fact that I had iTGB and TGB installed. Those problems led me to create multiple versions of the project X. As such, I may have only lost an hours work. Nothing big.
Thanks tho, I will get into the deeperness (is that a word? lol) of the mechanics of the iTGB engine as time goes by.
09/13/2010 (10:08 pm)
oh there are no real worries here. I had completed a major stage of pooling all tileObjects in my levels. So by doing so I cut 80% of my objects out of my levels, and not effecting gameplay... except for increased computation. I was running into problems tho... I think it may have been routed in the fact that I had iTGB and TGB installed. Those problems led me to create multiple versions of the project X. As such, I may have only lost an hours work. Nothing big.
Thanks tho, I will get into the deeperness (is that a word? lol) of the mechanics of the iTGB engine as time goes by.
#10
I tend to agree with Marc's comment in the sense that you really do need some experience of progamming and, more importantly, debugging C or C++ code. The iTorque marketting guys seem to project the image that you can code everything in script and all will be fine, but in practice I've found that I've had to delve into the actual engine code a lot of times. I think the main reason for this is because the engine is inadequate. I know of one or two artists with extremely limited programming skills who have easily managed to build and release a game in Unity, for example, but I doubt that would be the case with iTorque. This engine does require programming skills and quite a lot of experience in order to use it effectively.
I also agree with Scott regarding back ups. Even if you don't use any version control software (like Subversion etc), at the very least I would suggest creating a new folder every day. Once you get something working, keep that folder as your master copy and copy it over to a new working folder. If anything goes drastically wrong, you'll only lose one day of work, which is not such a bad thing. Also, I would keep a secondary backup on another disk (a CD, or a USB drive or whatever), because you never know when your hard drive is going to fail.
Apart from the above, I think the best approach is to learn as you go. I definitely do not recommend stopping and taking the time to read books, that's just a rediculous idea. Get some good books, but learn by coding and debugging and then consult the books whenever you hit something that doesn't make sense. Programming is a practical subject, and the best way to learn is by doing, just as you are now.
Getting back to the original question, which seems to have been completely lost and no-one has even attempted to address. From my experience, and I could be wrong, I've seen some pretty weird problems occuring when I had TGB and iTGB installed on the same machine. Not sure what's like on the Mac, but in Windows the TGB installs as a windows program so that all of the Torque related files get automatically associated with TGB. So, for example, if you double-click a project.t2dProj file from your iTGB projects it will automatically open TGB, not iTGB. So you need to be careful with things like that. If you're not actively using TGB, I would uninstall it and use only iTGB for everything that you do from now on. Otherwise, you could end up with some weird and confusing problems that don't seem to make sense.
09/14/2010 (6:43 am)
My advice to the flamers would be, if you do not have anything positive to add then keep your opinions to yourself. I tend to agree with Marc's comment in the sense that you really do need some experience of progamming and, more importantly, debugging C or C++ code. The iTorque marketting guys seem to project the image that you can code everything in script and all will be fine, but in practice I've found that I've had to delve into the actual engine code a lot of times. I think the main reason for this is because the engine is inadequate. I know of one or two artists with extremely limited programming skills who have easily managed to build and release a game in Unity, for example, but I doubt that would be the case with iTorque. This engine does require programming skills and quite a lot of experience in order to use it effectively.
I also agree with Scott regarding back ups. Even if you don't use any version control software (like Subversion etc), at the very least I would suggest creating a new folder every day. Once you get something working, keep that folder as your master copy and copy it over to a new working folder. If anything goes drastically wrong, you'll only lose one day of work, which is not such a bad thing. Also, I would keep a secondary backup on another disk (a CD, or a USB drive or whatever), because you never know when your hard drive is going to fail.
Apart from the above, I think the best approach is to learn as you go. I definitely do not recommend stopping and taking the time to read books, that's just a rediculous idea. Get some good books, but learn by coding and debugging and then consult the books whenever you hit something that doesn't make sense. Programming is a practical subject, and the best way to learn is by doing, just as you are now.
Getting back to the original question, which seems to have been completely lost and no-one has even attempted to address. From my experience, and I could be wrong, I've seen some pretty weird problems occuring when I had TGB and iTGB installed on the same machine. Not sure what's like on the Mac, but in Windows the TGB installs as a windows program so that all of the Torque related files get automatically associated with TGB. So, for example, if you double-click a project.t2dProj file from your iTGB projects it will automatically open TGB, not iTGB. So you need to be careful with things like that. If you're not actively using TGB, I would uninstall it and use only iTGB for everything that you do from now on. Otherwise, you could end up with some weird and confusing problems that don't seem to make sense.
#11
I use both TGB and iT2D, so I just start the one I need explicitly. But changing what the project files are named will also solve it. Another thing to change would be the product name, so that settings are stored in its own application data folder.
09/14/2010 (1:09 pm)
The association problems are the same on Mac, but what can we do about it? We'd have to modify the game builder to save under a different name, that's what. Since we have source, that's easy enough :)I use both TGB and iT2D, so I just start the one I need explicitly. But changing what the project files are named will also solve it. Another thing to change would be the product name, so that settings are stored in its own application data folder.
#12
Rennie consistently refuses to do anything that would expand his knowledge. I can back this up with nearly weekly evidence. I used to give him an answer and follow it up with advice. He would then take it as a personal attack.
I read Marc's, Craig's, and my answers as the real answers that Rennie needs. And the answers were all friendly. But the answers come from watching Rennie for over a year. He still wants the community to write and debug his game for him. I've come to accept that, but you have to allow the community to vent occasionally.
09/14/2010 (8:25 pm)
To Mark, who thinks that giving advice is the same as having nothing constructive to say:Rennie consistently refuses to do anything that would expand his knowledge. I can back this up with nearly weekly evidence. I used to give him an answer and follow it up with advice. He would then take it as a personal attack.
I read Marc's, Craig's, and my answers as the real answers that Rennie needs. And the answers were all friendly. But the answers come from watching Rennie for over a year. He still wants the community to write and debug his game for him. I've come to accept that, but you have to allow the community to vent occasionally.
#13
09/14/2010 (8:29 pm)
Whatever William. I do not expect anyone to do anything. I just run into trouble as I have not the background others do. I am lucky as I have people willing to help me. It can be frustrating when something, unexplainable happens and I can not/ am not a position to help myself.
#14
No! Of course you don't think this. Why? Because we all know to become good at something you research, you experiment and you challenge your level of knowledge on a subject.
What I see time and time again is once you get to the limit of your knowledge you want to take the easy option for solving the issue at hand. Case in point:
09/14/2010 (8:39 pm)
You ARE in a position to help yourself. Do you think people with strong programming skills were sat by a bookshelf one day when a book fell off, landed on their head and transferred all information contained within straight into their brain?No! Of course you don't think this. Why? Because we all know to become good at something you research, you experiment and you challenge your level of knowledge on a subject.
What I see time and time again is once you get to the limit of your knowledge you want to take the easy option for solving the issue at hand. Case in point:
Quote:Ok so research "Stack traces"?Marc didn't say that was the solution at all, he said you need to brush up on your coding skills. Everything is intertwined, you can't just learn bits here and there and expect to have a workable knowledge.
#15
09/15/2010 (1:01 am)
The idea is that I find the boards very useful in gathering help as to how to do something. Once I know how to do it I don't ask again. I am not asking someone to do work for me that I am capable of. It is a board, I think the purpose of which is to help one another.
#16
09/15/2010 (1:05 am)
yupp or at least be able to get hints on where to research on the own in case the matter is more complex or requires a broader research / knowledge than one can reasonably "transmit" through a board.
#17
and I never have been, at least lately, as I did ask basic programming questions galore a year ago - as I was just starting programming altogether. The only programming I knew was my VCR.. baddabing! But I digress. Helpful hints are always useful, anything more is great, but complaints are never cool. But I am grateful believe me so thank you.
09/15/2010 (1:15 am)
Yes, and I never have been, at least lately, as I did ask basic programming questions galore a year ago - as I was just starting programming altogether. The only programming I knew was my VCR.. baddabing! But I digress. Helpful hints are always useful, anything more is great, but complaints are never cool. But I am grateful believe me so thank you.
#18
Do you really want me to disprove this? You ask identical questions all the time.
If you don't expect anything, then why do you bump your posts up when nobody answers?
You do still ask basic programming questions now. You still don't understand what first year programming students learn within the first few weeks. And why is this? It's because you ignored my advice for an entire year!
09/15/2010 (7:04 am)
Whatever, Rennie...Quote:Once I know how to do it I don't ask again.
Do you really want me to disprove this? You ask identical questions all the time.
Quote:I do not expect anyone to do anything.
If you don't expect anything, then why do you bump your posts up when nobody answers?
Quote:I did ask basic programming questions galore a year ago
You do still ask basic programming questions now. You still don't understand what first year programming students learn within the first few weeks. And why is this? It's because you ignored my advice for an entire year!
#19
Regards
09/15/2010 (10:18 am)
Do you have a personal problem with me? I am unsure why you feel the need/right to essentially say that I am not worthy in some way. Anyhow thanks for all the help you have given me. It has been appreciated.Regards
#20
Just ignore people that get on your nuts for whatever reason.
@rennie: I don't think he has a problem with you as person but with you as a pretender of knowledge you clearly lack as you don't even understand the basics of the knowledge you pretend to have. Thats not a good attitude for developers in communities cause it is obvious to the rest and leads to situations where you are ignored or at worst flamed to crisp as its happening there.
The problem is not that you lack the knowledge, the problem is that your pride is that totally broken that are unable to either recognize it or realize it.
In such a situation I would normally recommend that you should potentially stop trying to be a programmer cause you are still not much further than a few weeks of knowledge although you got that many hints and pointers in the past year and shouldn't have any of the problems you have anymore at all if you read and understood even half of what was written and pointed out.
I don't know why you aren't much further and will that leave up to you as thats your thing, but if you continue with your type of asking questions combined with your pesky behavior and slimy "excuse and all cool" attitude, be aware that you are approaching a massive brick wall at mach 3
09/15/2010 (1:06 pm)
Please guys.Just ignore people that get on your nuts for whatever reason.
@rennie: I don't think he has a problem with you as person but with you as a pretender of knowledge you clearly lack as you don't even understand the basics of the knowledge you pretend to have. Thats not a good attitude for developers in communities cause it is obvious to the rest and leads to situations where you are ignored or at worst flamed to crisp as its happening there.
The problem is not that you lack the knowledge, the problem is that your pride is that totally broken that are unable to either recognize it or realize it.
In such a situation I would normally recommend that you should potentially stop trying to be a programmer cause you are still not much further than a few weeks of knowledge although you got that many hints and pointers in the past year and shouldn't have any of the problems you have anymore at all if you read and understood even half of what was written and pointed out.
I don't know why you aren't much further and will that leave up to you as thats your thing, but if you continue with your type of asking questions combined with your pesky behavior and slimy "excuse and all cool" attitude, be aware that you are approaching a massive brick wall at mach 3
Torque Owner rennie moffat
Renman3000
I have just opened up an earlier saved version of the project and it works, so there must be a problem somewhere else. I am wondering, when the project crashes and you get the error report, is there any easy way to see what caused the crash?