The last update from GG was 6/13.
by Josh Albrecht · in General Discussion · 07/20/2003 (5:47 pm) · 86 replies
Edit: Original post below. For any future readers...
READ THIS FIRST:
I did not know about the CVS changelist when I posted this message. And that is exactly what I wanted. Here is the link to the change list, which shows exactly what the GG guys have been working hard at for the past few weeks. :)
www.garagegames.com/docs/torque.sdk/changelist/index.php?list=HEAD
It is now over 5 weeks later. And we have not heard anything official from anyone at GG. This is nothing new; it is merely a continuation of the pattern that has persisted for a very long time, and has recently been growing worse.
I'm not normally one to complain, but I would really appreciate some more feedback/information from the GG guys. The last post by Tim Gift, almost a quarter of a year ago, said that he was working on torque 1.2 What features will this include? Do they need/want any help with specific issues? What are the plans after that? When can we expect some more information on Torque 2?
Perhaps I'm missing something. But it seems to me as if the GG guys are leaving us in the dark. If they aren't working on the engine right now, and are instead talking with developers about publishing deals or helping some of the first games be successful, that's cool, but I'd like to know. Right now it feels like they sit around all day waiting for stuff to happen, and I KNOW that isnt the case.
I mean no offense to any of the GG guys, and I'm sure you have your reasons, but perhaps you could share them with us? :)
What does everyone else think?
READ THIS FIRST:
I did not know about the CVS changelist when I posted this message. And that is exactly what I wanted. Here is the link to the change list, which shows exactly what the GG guys have been working hard at for the past few weeks. :)
www.garagegames.com/docs/torque.sdk/changelist/index.php?list=HEAD
It is now over 5 weeks later. And we have not heard anything official from anyone at GG. This is nothing new; it is merely a continuation of the pattern that has persisted for a very long time, and has recently been growing worse.
I'm not normally one to complain, but I would really appreciate some more feedback/information from the GG guys. The last post by Tim Gift, almost a quarter of a year ago, said that he was working on torque 1.2 What features will this include? Do they need/want any help with specific issues? What are the plans after that? When can we expect some more information on Torque 2?
Perhaps I'm missing something. But it seems to me as if the GG guys are leaving us in the dark. If they aren't working on the engine right now, and are instead talking with developers about publishing deals or helping some of the first games be successful, that's cool, but I'd like to know. Right now it feels like they sit around all day waiting for stuff to happen, and I KNOW that isnt the case.
I mean no offense to any of the GG guys, and I'm sure you have your reasons, but perhaps you could share them with us? :)
What does everyone else think?
#2
However, my point is still valid: look at the previous update. There is a month's gap, with no word or update (though I do believe there was a news thing on the happenings at E3, so that was good) But news is different from updates. I'm talking about keeping us informed about what they are up to.
Even the fact that they are moving to a new office only furthers my point. Take a look at this quote:
"Our internet and phones are down and may remain down for a another day or two."
That was more than 10 days ago. Do we know what happened to them, or what they're doing? No. That's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about.
Again, no offense to the GG guys, and I understand that they probably had some technical difficulties, and I know how hard something like moving an office is. But I guess I just wish that the community knew more about what was going on behind the scenes, not a daily detailed report, just a general: "We're working on this, this is the direction we are headed" kind of thing more often than once every month or two.
07/20/2003 (6:43 pm)
That's true.However, my point is still valid: look at the previous update. There is a month's gap, with no word or update (though I do believe there was a news thing on the happenings at E3, so that was good) But news is different from updates. I'm talking about keeping us informed about what they are up to.
Even the fact that they are moving to a new office only furthers my point. Take a look at this quote:
"Our internet and phones are down and may remain down for a another day or two."
That was more than 10 days ago. Do we know what happened to them, or what they're doing? No. That's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about.
Again, no offense to the GG guys, and I understand that they probably had some technical difficulties, and I know how hard something like moving an office is. But I guess I just wish that the community knew more about what was going on behind the scenes, not a daily detailed report, just a general: "We're working on this, this is the direction we are headed" kind of thing more often than once every month or two.
#3
07/20/2003 (7:04 pm)
Why worry. It's not like there just gonna throw their hands in the air and say "oh well". Moving is certainly a hard thing. I for one am feeling it's effects because i'm moving and all I have is my laptop :'( . The American VanLines truck got in an accident and half my stuff is broken or damaged. Won't bother to sue American VanLines for having one of their drivers fall asleep at the wheel :P ! Only way i'm connected to the internet through my AT&T Wireless Service. Whoa I got way sidetracked. So, understand why they might not be doing anything on GG? 
#4
07/20/2003 (7:18 pm)
I get the same feeling, Josh. Actually, I e-mailed Jeff about it just over a week ago. I haven't received any response yet, though.
#5
I agree, in fact, I propose that we all ban together to install cameras in Jeff's office, bedroom and shower. That way we will always be able to find out what Jeff's up to... perhaps we should implant a tracking device under his skin too, that way we can hunt him down if he tries to escape :P
seriously though, I do agree, the community could use a few more updates about what GG is up to (especialy now that they have a dedicated PR guy)
07/20/2003 (7:35 pm)
Damnit, I warned them not to put that foozball table in the lounge :PI agree, in fact, I propose that we all ban together to install cameras in Jeff's office, bedroom and shower. That way we will always be able to find out what Jeff's up to... perhaps we should implant a tracking device under his skin too, that way we can hunt him down if he tries to escape :P
seriously though, I do agree, the community could use a few more updates about what GG is up to (especialy now that they have a dedicated PR guy)
#7
If you ever want to see your precious Torque 1.2 you will comply with our list of demands:
Demand #1) Phil: Worms 3D...we grow impatient
Demand #2) To all makers of RPGs: We demand the option "Kick his/her/their ass(es)" avaliable on all dialogs. Like this example:
Demand #3) To the artists of Knights of the Old Republic, we demand high-resolution renderings of Juhani. (Yes, she is the one who your character CAN'T hit on, grr.) Yes, she is the one with yellow cat-eyes. She is obviously the hottest character in the game, though I may be the only one who thinks that. I will educate you using the choice gained in Demand #2.
Demand #4) A full-size, Think Tank, complete with ejection seat.
Demand #5) A Dual 2Ghz G5 with 23" screen. Or two.
This list of 5 demands has been narrowed down from 217 previous demands which were deemed too unrealistic. We mean buisness! The team is being held without airconditioning. If our demands are not met, we will be forced to take more drastic measures.
07/20/2003 (8:55 pm)
I regret to be the one to tell you this...but we, the interns, have decided to take matters into our own hands and we are holding the "employees" of GarageGamse hostage. If you ever want to see your precious Torque 1.2 you will comply with our list of demands:
Demand #1) Phil: Worms 3D...we grow impatient
Demand #2) To all makers of RPGs: We demand the option "Kick his/her/their ass(es)" avaliable on all dialogs. Like this example:
Quote:or
I'll pay you 200 credits, so are you interested in the job?
a) Yeah I'm interested.
b) I won't do your dirty work for you
c) Wait a second, so you have 200 credits on you? I can kick your ass and take them...
Quote:
I am an alien who can obviously understand English but I insist on speaking my fish language to intentionally drive you crazy.
a) Kick it's ass, then make sushi out of it
Demand #3) To the artists of Knights of the Old Republic, we demand high-resolution renderings of Juhani. (Yes, she is the one who your character CAN'T hit on, grr.) Yes, she is the one with yellow cat-eyes. She is obviously the hottest character in the game, though I may be the only one who thinks that. I will educate you using the choice gained in Demand #2.
Demand #4) A full-size, Think Tank, complete with ejection seat.
Demand #5) A Dual 2Ghz G5 with 23" screen. Or two.
This list of 5 demands has been narrowed down from 217 previous demands which were deemed too unrealistic. We mean buisness! The team is being held without airconditioning. If our demands are not met, we will be forced to take more drastic measures.
#8
At least it explains why they havent updated... ;)
But I think the issue is serious. I dont think anyone here is demanding alot, just a quick 100 word update, not even spellchecked, about what's been happening that week. Just so we know what is going on and what to expect. And to foster community discourse about the direction GG is heading, what things we feel are necessary, and what features we feel arent worth the effort of the GG team.
Better communication is ALWAYS a good thing.
07/20/2003 (9:04 pm)
Haha, I got a good laugh out of that Pat.At least it explains why they havent updated... ;)
But I think the issue is serious. I dont think anyone here is demanding alot, just a quick 100 word update, not even spellchecked, about what's been happening that week. Just so we know what is going on and what to expect. And to foster community discourse about the direction GG is heading, what things we feel are necessary, and what features we feel arent worth the effort of the GG team.
Better communication is ALWAYS a good thing.
#9
Josh, man, you take it too hard. Its not that they have to please us and entertain with new posts every week or something. I mean, you cant probably say that this site is dead.
Have you ever relocated? ssshhh, its...really...terrible...thing, believe me. I am still slightly disoriented after relocation and it was almost 10 months ago.
And maybe they have found nice beach with nice mexican girls..or somthing. Indies also need vacation.
or they'll simply surprise us. with Torque 3 :P
07/20/2003 (10:18 pm)
:))) Pat, negotiators are at the door already...see...no weapon.Josh, man, you take it too hard. Its not that they have to please us and entertain with new posts every week or something. I mean, you cant probably say that this site is dead.
Have you ever relocated? ssshhh, its...really...terrible...thing, believe me. I am still slightly disoriented after relocation and it was almost 10 months ago.
And maybe they have found nice beach with nice mexican girls..or somthing. Indies also need vacation.
or they'll simply surprise us. with Torque 3 :P
#10
07/20/2003 (10:58 pm)
We would like to know which Intern's brain is going into the ThinkTank. The brain pod has to be custom made, so we need to know.
#11
07/20/2003 (11:22 pm)
Also, Juhani volunteered to drop by your office herself. We weren't sure though: are you guys ready for her, or are you straight (posters-only) ?
#12
Moving? That's a good excuse for us not knowing what is going on.
Vacation? That's fine too.
But they havent all (I hope) been on vacation since May.
I'm not asking that they post every minute; I'm not asking that the posts be entertaining or creative; I'm not asking that they share anything of their personal lives if they dont want to.
All I'm asking is that they let us know what they are working on a little more frequently than once every month or so.
07/21/2003 (6:39 am)
If you had read my post, you'd see that this is not about moving. This pattern has been going on for a while.Moving? That's a good excuse for us not knowing what is going on.
Vacation? That's fine too.
But they havent all (I hope) been on vacation since May.
I'm not asking that they post every minute; I'm not asking that the posts be entertaining or creative; I'm not asking that they share anything of their personal lives if they dont want to.
All I'm asking is that they let us know what they are working on a little more frequently than once every month or so.
#13
07/21/2003 (6:43 am)
When they have things to announce they do so. It's absurd to think they should post an update unless they wish to do so. Also, just because you don't see an update does not mean they're just sitting around drinking beer. They'd be out of business quick. Put yourself in their shoes for a bit and maybe you'll see what I'm talking about. 
#14
07/21/2003 (6:55 am)
Is there some entitlement that I missed out on?
#15
then we all meet up with juhani (who was on her way to apease the interns) and ride a think tank down to mexico for a 6 week vacation!!! sorry Josh, no updates for you! MWAHAHAHAHAHA
07/21/2003 (6:56 am)
*uses demand 2 to kick pat's ass and save the GG crew*then we all meet up with juhani (who was on her way to apease the interns) and ride a think tank down to mexico for a 6 week vacation!!! sorry Josh, no updates for you! MWAHAHAHAHAHA
#16
And it is not absurd.
Information about their activities is extremely valuable to us developers. For example, let's say that they are going to radically change the vehicle classes in torque 1.2.
Dont you think that knowing this in advance would be extraoridinarily helpful!? It would eliminated duplicated effort buy us and them, which is a very good thing.
That's all I'm asking.
07/21/2003 (7:03 am)
I KNOW they arent sitting around drinking beer. I said that, if you read my posts. :PAnd it is not absurd.
Information about their activities is extremely valuable to us developers. For example, let's say that they are going to radically change the vehicle classes in torque 1.2.
Dont you think that knowing this in advance would be extraoridinarily helpful!? It would eliminated duplicated effort buy us and them, which is a very good thing.
That's all I'm asking.
#17
07/21/2003 (7:08 am)
In the past i've seen notes from Tim or Rick stating that they plan on looking at something and want feedback/giving heads up about it. In fact, I believe Tim did this with vehicle code in the past. ;)
#18
But also in the past, their posts were considerably more frequent.
Look at the state of things right now. We learned in MAY that 1.2 is being worked on. Since then, we've heard nothing about progress, direction the patch will take, or what sections of code will be changed heavily, if any.
All I'm asking is that they do what they were doing, and update more frequently.
Look at those older posts. They were very constructive. Dont you think that sort of communication and collaboration is important, especially in this situation?
07/21/2003 (7:17 am)
I know that, and I'm saying that that sort of thing is a good thing.But also in the past, their posts were considerably more frequent.
Look at the state of things right now. We learned in MAY that 1.2 is being worked on. Since then, we've heard nothing about progress, direction the patch will take, or what sections of code will be changed heavily, if any.
All I'm asking is that they do what they were doing, and update more frequently.
Look at those older posts. They were very constructive. Dont you think that sort of communication and collaboration is important, especially in this situation?
#19
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what has got some people spooked (myself included) is the sudden off hand reference to Torque 2 in a post a few weeks ago by Jeff. There was no prior announcement and certainly no info on the project itself (other than it won't be completely compatible with the current Torque).
So the feelings I've been wrestling with are:
1 - Is what I'm working on available in TGE2 (if so I won't bother working on it)?
2 - Is what I'm working on even compatible with TGE2 (if not I won't bother working on it)?
3 - Is TGE2 going to be available soon (if not for 12+ months then the answers to the first two questions are irrelevant)?
4 - Is TGE2 priced with the indy in mind (see item 3)?
5 - Will the TGE2 networking code comparable to TGE (100+ players, if not see item 3)?
Anyway I'm left with too little information to properly manage my development time (everyone here knows how important time management is, there is never enough to go around).
It's important to say that I am VERY excited about TGE2, I'm just trying to avoid wasting my time on features that are incompatible or are prepackaged in TGE2.
John.
07/21/2003 (7:42 am)
Josh (or anyone),Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what has got some people spooked (myself included) is the sudden off hand reference to Torque 2 in a post a few weeks ago by Jeff. There was no prior announcement and certainly no info on the project itself (other than it won't be completely compatible with the current Torque).
So the feelings I've been wrestling with are:
1 - Is what I'm working on available in TGE2 (if so I won't bother working on it)?
2 - Is what I'm working on even compatible with TGE2 (if not I won't bother working on it)?
3 - Is TGE2 going to be available soon (if not for 12+ months then the answers to the first two questions are irrelevant)?
4 - Is TGE2 priced with the indy in mind (see item 3)?
5 - Will the TGE2 networking code comparable to TGE (100+ players, if not see item 3)?
Anyway I'm left with too little information to properly manage my development time (everyone here knows how important time management is, there is never enough to go around).
It's important to say that I am VERY excited about TGE2, I'm just trying to avoid wasting my time on features that are incompatible or are prepackaged in TGE2.
John.
#20
That's why the updates are important. To let us know what the GG team has been up to, and what we can expect in the future. Any proper updates would hopefully answer your questions, or at least give us the reason that those questions cannot and have not been answered.
07/21/2003 (7:47 am)
Bob: See, that is precisely the kind of thing I am talking about. The same thing has occurred with torque 1.2 And we have no idea what has been going on in regards to these or other projects.That's why the updates are important. To let us know what the GG team has been up to, and what we can expect in the future. Any proper updates would hopefully answer your questions, or at least give us the reason that those questions cannot and have not been answered.
Torque Owner Ben Swanson