Comments about Lite versions?
by Mark Davies · in iTorque 2D · 05/29/2010 (10:19 pm) · 20 replies
Hi all,
I'm getting closer to releasing my game, and I was wondering what your thoughts are regarding a "lite" verion (free). I.e, from a marketing standpoint, do you think it is a good idea or not? Currently, I am thinking of putting out a lite version approximately one month before the paid version becomes available, so that it forms part of my marketing campain, which will include other things obviously. I've searched the threads on here, but so far I haven't been able to find anything about marketing, which I find quite amazing as this, in my opinion, is the thing that ultimately determines the success or failure of an app.
If you have any thoughts, I'd be grateful to share mine. If not, then perhaps it will start an interesting discussion.
Thanks in advance,
Mark
I'm getting closer to releasing my game, and I was wondering what your thoughts are regarding a "lite" verion (free). I.e, from a marketing standpoint, do you think it is a good idea or not? Currently, I am thinking of putting out a lite version approximately one month before the paid version becomes available, so that it forms part of my marketing campain, which will include other things obviously. I've searched the threads on here, but so far I haven't been able to find anything about marketing, which I find quite amazing as this, in my opinion, is the thing that ultimately determines the success or failure of an app.
If you have any thoughts, I'd be grateful to share mine. If not, then perhaps it will start an interesting discussion.
Thanks in advance,
Mark
About the author
#2
05/30/2010 (3:03 am)
Mark, agreed with Ronny on the lite - it has to be that they can immediately buy the full version. However, it seems that this is a strategy that warblade are taking - the lite is out now, generating buzz and they will release the full version somewhen itunes.apple.com/us/app/warblade-free/id372970539?mt=8?
#3
For my next game, I am thinking of releasing the lite version first and then the full version, similar to Warblade. I think that if you choose this strategy, your lite version has to include a lot more to keep peoples attention since they won't have the full game to buy. With this version, you are basically trying to get on the top free charts. An advantage of this method is that you can see how people like the free version, and then modify the full version if needed.
05/30/2010 (8:49 am)
With War Evolved, we first released the full version and didn't release the lite version until about two months later. The advantages of this is that you can see how sales of your full game is doing, and then decide. The lite version of War Evolved gets about twice the number of downloads as the full version. However, I didn't notice any dramatic differences in sales after the lite version came out.For my next game, I am thinking of releasing the lite version first and then the full version, similar to Warblade. I think that if you choose this strategy, your lite version has to include a lot more to keep peoples attention since they won't have the full game to buy. With this version, you are basically trying to get on the top free charts. An advantage of this method is that you can see how people like the free version, and then modify the full version if needed.
#4
I like the idea of using in-game purchases, and releasing the game in stages seems like a good idea. Also, I think having a global high-score chart (using OpenFeint, or whatever) might be another way to encourage people to download more levels, as they will need the extra levels to compete with the highest scores.
05/30/2010 (2:07 pm)
Thanks for your feedback. People do forget very easily, that is true, so perhaps the one-month idea is not a good one. I do like the idea of having a lite version though. As Justin mentioned, it might be a good thing to gauge how well the game does initially and modify the full version according to feedback on the lite version.I like the idea of using in-game purchases, and releasing the game in stages seems like a good idea. Also, I think having a global high-score chart (using OpenFeint, or whatever) might be another way to encourage people to download more levels, as they will need the extra levels to compete with the highest scores.
#5
05/30/2010 (2:27 pm)
My main motivation for OpenFeint was to add it so that the "lite" players will hopefully want to compete on the global leaderboards and purchase an upgrade. We should know in the next couple of weeks as I will be releasing the next version to the app store hopefully tomorrow.
#6
At the end of the day, I always ask myself "what do I like to see in games", and I try to implement those features. At least I'll end up with a game I like, even if no-one else does, lol !
05/30/2010 (10:08 pm)
I will be interested to know how you get on with the new version, with OpenFeint. I'm sure having a global high scores table will encourage lite users to upgrade and, hopefully, it should increase the longevity of the game. People get bored very quickly, but if there is the added bonus of being able to compete against others I think that should make a huge difference, and keep them interested. It always boosts my interest whenever I see those types of features anyway. Most people are competitive in nature, so it makes sense to exploit our human emotions.At the end of the day, I always ask myself "what do I like to see in games", and I try to implement those features. At least I'll end up with a game I like, even if no-one else does, lol !
#7
Also added a whole bunch of other stuff:
- OpenFeint - multiple leaderboards and achievements
- Combo scoring system
- Listen to your music
- Sub games
- Completely overhauled graphics
- New invaders, saucers, powerups, missiles, shields
- New special effects
- Re-skinned menu system
- Many more improvements throughout the game
And, we are just in the process of adding in-app purchase to the lite versions - we now have lite version for Asutralia, UK and Italy which are themed to be specific to that country - I know, a marketing gimmick, but, hopefully get a few mores sales, coverage etc.
05/31/2010 (7:48 am)
Mark, I'm with you on the OF and the competitive nature. I didn't just add OF but also a combo scoring system as well e.g. you get a nice fat bonus if you destroy the pack without missing - and I take into account multiple guns i.e. fire two missiles from a dual barrel gun and only one missile has to hit.Also added a whole bunch of other stuff:
- OpenFeint - multiple leaderboards and achievements
- Combo scoring system
- Listen to your music
- Sub games
- Completely overhauled graphics
- New invaders, saucers, powerups, missiles, shields
- New special effects
- Re-skinned menu system
- Many more improvements throughout the game
And, we are just in the process of adding in-app purchase to the lite versions - we now have lite version for Asutralia, UK and Italy which are themed to be specific to that country - I know, a marketing gimmick, but, hopefully get a few mores sales, coverage etc.
#8
When will your new version get realeased?
BTW, I had a really weird problem that somehow is related to your game. I had IWT installed on one of my iPods, and when I tried to debug my own game in XCode, using instruments, the instruments tool would always end up running iWT on the iPod instead of mine, and then an error message would pop up! Lol, can you believe that? In the end the only solution I could find was to uninstall iWT from that particular iPod, and then Instruments was happy.
06/01/2010 (5:44 pm)
Hi Scott, it sounds as if you've a lot of improvements to your game. I think that OF will make a big difference, and that is something that I will add to mine. I haven't looked at that at all yet, as I'm still concentrating on the core parts of my game, but I certainly will. When will your new version get realeased?
BTW, I had a really weird problem that somehow is related to your game. I had IWT installed on one of my iPods, and when I tried to debug my own game in XCode, using instruments, the instruments tool would always end up running iWT on the iPod instead of mine, and then an error message would pop up! Lol, can you believe that? In the end the only solution I could find was to uninstall iWT from that particular iPod, and then Instruments was happy.
#9
iWT 2.0 is in the approval (or rejection) queue at the moment. Should be about a week I guess. That's a very odd behaviour for Instruments - I think I only used it once! I wonder if it is possible to ship with some debug stuff lying around in the game - can't see how though as we do a clean build and then build using the shipping target. How odd.
06/02/2010 (12:54 am)
Hi Mark, the OF stuff is actually pretty straightforward, perhaps a day at the most to get working.iWT 2.0 is in the approval (or rejection) queue at the moment. Should be about a week I guess. That's a very odd behaviour for Instruments - I think I only used it once! I wonder if it is possible to ship with some debug stuff lying around in the game - can't see how though as we do a clean build and then build using the shipping target. How odd.
#10
Looking forward to seeing iWT version 2. BTW, how are the sales going? Did you go ahead and contact that marketing company? I think I will. Your game is very nice, and if it fails to sell I will be very disappointed, as that probably means that most of us have no chance.
I like your list of improvements, but one thing I don't like is the ability to play your own music. I'm not going to allow that in my games. In my opinion the background music can be a very important part of the overall gaming experience, and if the music tracks are chosen well I think it helps to enhance the overall effect. Also, in my game I like to fade out the music during certain scenes so that the sound effects become more focused. The iPod and iPhone are amazing sound machines, and I think it's a good idea to use audio as much as possible. In my opinion if someone wants to listen to their own music, they can do that in iTunes, so I'm ot going to compromise on that one.
06/04/2010 (10:24 pm)
Yeah, the Instruments issue is very weird. For some reason it seems to recognise your game as iTorqueGame instead of mine. There must be something in the final build that identifies it as iTorqueGame, somehow? Dunno, but there must be a logical explanation for this weird effect.Looking forward to seeing iWT version 2. BTW, how are the sales going? Did you go ahead and contact that marketing company? I think I will. Your game is very nice, and if it fails to sell I will be very disappointed, as that probably means that most of us have no chance.
I like your list of improvements, but one thing I don't like is the ability to play your own music. I'm not going to allow that in my games. In my opinion the background music can be a very important part of the overall gaming experience, and if the music tracks are chosen well I think it helps to enhance the overall effect. Also, in my game I like to fade out the music during certain scenes so that the sound effects become more focused. The iPod and iPhone are amazing sound machines, and I think it's a good idea to use audio as much as possible. In my opinion if someone wants to listen to their own music, they can do that in iTunes, so I'm ot going to compromise on that one.
#11
We decided to let people play their iPod for two reasons;
1. We have no background music! I paid for some background loops but just couldn't get it to fit well with the game - it constantly seemed to get in the way of the in-game sounds.
2. Feedback from reviewers have asked for it.
But I do agree - If we'd gone to the trouble of some really nice music then I'd probably not have bothered.
WRT to Appular - the marketing company - yes we are still in contact and they are working with us to look at improving the game. If it comes to fruition then I expect to see version 3.0 of iWT with Appular. We're already working on 3.0 and are adding in formations - Galaga style and bosses. We will also be adding in more sub games - I'm trying to think of someway of making the main app free and then doing in-app purchase - I'm thinking a sub game bundle (6 games for a $1) might be a way forward.
The other thing we are trying out is we have country specific versions of iWT - these are the lite versions, but instead of the USA (current lite) you get Australia (Australia and NZ), Italy (Europe) and UK (UK and USA). The lite versions now have in-app purchase to unlock the full game.
I'll keep you posted on how things pan out.
06/05/2010 (1:51 am)
Mark, sales are averaging 10 a day, but we are still a featured app in 19 app stores so not really the success I thought it might be - I think the key is to try and get in the US featured app section. We've been a featured app for 21 days now so I guess Apple will take us out soon. 2.0 is currently in review - longer than the others have been - I'm wondering if the OpenFeint stuff means it takes a little longer? I'm hoping to get 2.0 into the app store whilst we still have a few days as a featured app.We decided to let people play their iPod for two reasons;
1. We have no background music! I paid for some background loops but just couldn't get it to fit well with the game - it constantly seemed to get in the way of the in-game sounds.
2. Feedback from reviewers have asked for it.
But I do agree - If we'd gone to the trouble of some really nice music then I'd probably not have bothered.
WRT to Appular - the marketing company - yes we are still in contact and they are working with us to look at improving the game. If it comes to fruition then I expect to see version 3.0 of iWT with Appular. We're already working on 3.0 and are adding in formations - Galaga style and bosses. We will also be adding in more sub games - I'm trying to think of someway of making the main app free and then doing in-app purchase - I'm thinking a sub game bundle (6 games for a $1) might be a way forward.
The other thing we are trying out is we have country specific versions of iWT - these are the lite versions, but instead of the USA (current lite) you get Australia (Australia and NZ), Italy (Europe) and UK (UK and USA). The lite versions now have in-app purchase to unlock the full game.
I'll keep you posted on how things pan out.
#12
BTW, I like the idea of having bosses. I'm currently working on a boss level right now, which was where the scripted sequence came about (for the audio pausing problem that I was having). I'm also thinking of keeping the overall number of levels quite small, but making them quite different from each other. Hopefully that will make the game more interesting. Having a different boss per level, for example, is a nice way to add some variation. If the game does ok, I was thinking of trying to keep it going by creating new levels and providing them as in-app purchases. I mean for 99 cents, I don't think anyone could complain if the number of levels is quite small (like 5 or 10), with additional sets of 5-10 levels available for another 99 cents. Something like that, for example?
06/05/2010 (8:11 pm)
It's interesting to hear that the marketing company also provides some feedback in terms of how to improve the game. That has to be valuable information right there, since they will have a good idea what is likely to sell well. Definitely keep me posted about how that goes, as I am also thinking of signing up with them. All I'm really doing currently is creating the type of game that I like to play, but I haven't a clue if anyone else will like it, lol.BTW, I like the idea of having bosses. I'm currently working on a boss level right now, which was where the scripted sequence came about (for the audio pausing problem that I was having). I'm also thinking of keeping the overall number of levels quite small, but making them quite different from each other. Hopefully that will make the game more interesting. Having a different boss per level, for example, is a nice way to add some variation. If the game does ok, I was thinking of trying to keep it going by creating new levels and providing them as in-app purchases. I mean for 99 cents, I don't think anyone could complain if the number of levels is quite small (like 5 or 10), with additional sets of 5-10 levels available for another 99 cents. Something like that, for example?
#13
Eventually, I'm planning on creating all of my own audio effects and music, but for now I am using purchased audio loops and audio effects (time is short). There is a ton of stuff out there, you should check them out, there are loads of very good royalty free audio clips that don't cost much.
I definitely do not want some kid listening to Lady Gaga while they are playing my game! Lady Gaga is pretty cool, actually, but her music def does not fit with my games.
06/05/2010 (11:00 pm)
Seriously though, I think good audio makes a big difference. If you look back at games that have been succesful, it is all about the overall effect, graphics and audio combined and the atmosphere they create.Eventually, I'm planning on creating all of my own audio effects and music, but for now I am using purchased audio loops and audio effects (time is short). There is a ton of stuff out there, you should check them out, there are loads of very good royalty free audio clips that don't cost much.
I definitely do not want some kid listening to Lady Gaga while they are playing my game! Lady Gaga is pretty cool, actually, but her music def does not fit with my games.
#15
06/06/2010 (4:10 am)
I also think in-app purchase adding extra content is probably the way to go - there is a downside though - no promo codes to give out - the game is free. Also, I suspect that getting reviews (whilst difficult enough normally) may be more challenging when you want someone to review the new content.
#16
soundsnap.com
audiosparx.com
I've used soundsnap for some of my background music loops, and I've purchased some sound effects from audiosparx.com. The audio that I got from soundsnap was very cheap (about 1 or 2 dollars per sound), and I think everything is royalty free on there. There is a lot of pretty useless sounds, but if you search around there are some good ones also.
The audiosparx one has more complicated licensing so you'll need to be more careful I bought some sound effects from there, and they were quite expensive. The quality is excellent though, but depending on the licensing you could end up paying 50 dollars or even more for a 5-seconds piece of audio.
Also, I don't know if you've purchased any images, but I've bought some photos and some art from here:
dreamstime.com
Again, you'll need to check the licensing but I've downloaded a few images and they've all been royalty free and cheap to buy (like 1 dollar per image or something like that).
Here is another one that is pretty good for sound effects (again, about 1-2 dollars per purchase and royalty free):
http://www.soundrangers.com/
And, for completeness, here is website that provides a list of links to other sources, although I don't think I've used any of them. You just need to be careful to read the licensing agreements, as they are not always the same:
http://www.stonewashed.net/sfx.html
06/06/2010 (3:50 pm)
Scott, here are a couple of links:soundsnap.com
audiosparx.com
I've used soundsnap for some of my background music loops, and I've purchased some sound effects from audiosparx.com. The audio that I got from soundsnap was very cheap (about 1 or 2 dollars per sound), and I think everything is royalty free on there. There is a lot of pretty useless sounds, but if you search around there are some good ones also.
The audiosparx one has more complicated licensing so you'll need to be more careful I bought some sound effects from there, and they were quite expensive. The quality is excellent though, but depending on the licensing you could end up paying 50 dollars or even more for a 5-seconds piece of audio.
Also, I don't know if you've purchased any images, but I've bought some photos and some art from here:
dreamstime.com
Again, you'll need to check the licensing but I've downloaded a few images and they've all been royalty free and cheap to buy (like 1 dollar per image or something like that).
Here is another one that is pretty good for sound effects (again, about 1-2 dollars per purchase and royalty free):
http://www.soundrangers.com/
And, for completeness, here is website that provides a list of links to other sources, although I don't think I've used any of them. You just need to be careful to read the licensing agreements, as they are not always the same:
http://www.stonewashed.net/sfx.html
#17
www.shockwave-sound.com/
Run by an actual published game musician. WAV sound, MP3 and MIDI music.
06/06/2010 (11:11 pm)
Another one:www.shockwave-sound.com/
Run by an actual published game musician. WAV sound, MP3 and MIDI music.
#18
It saves a lot of time if we can provide links for each other. I'm completely new to this type of thing, so until a couple of months ago I had absolutely no knowledge about game development. I just had some programming skills and that was it, so I ended up spending a lot of time upfront just researching and trying to find things that would make my development easier. Initially, I didn't even know that they had web sites where you could purchase audio and music, I was a total noob (and still am).
It would be good for the community if we should pool together and provide a resource, with links and general info about gaming development. Trying to develop a complete game from scratch is not easy, especially if one person (or a small number of people) are trying yo do everything. My main weekness is on the art side, so I have to make use of anything I can find and manipulate them for my own uses. I'm getting better, but it takes time. It's great fun though, and I really enjoy it.
06/06/2010 (11:25 pm)
Thanks Ronny, I'll take a look at that one too. It saves a lot of time if we can provide links for each other. I'm completely new to this type of thing, so until a couple of months ago I had absolutely no knowledge about game development. I just had some programming skills and that was it, so I ended up spending a lot of time upfront just researching and trying to find things that would make my development easier. Initially, I didn't even know that they had web sites where you could purchase audio and music, I was a total noob (and still am).
It would be good for the community if we should pool together and provide a resource, with links and general info about gaming development. Trying to develop a complete game from scratch is not easy, especially if one person (or a small number of people) are trying yo do everything. My main weekness is on the art side, so I have to make use of anything I can find and manipulate them for my own uses. I'm getting better, but it takes time. It's great fun though, and I really enjoy it.
#19
06/07/2010 (5:10 am)
Thanks Ronny and Mark. There are some good sites there :)
#20
(No, I don't quite trust TDN, besides my idea is for a more generic list of stuff which just happens to have Torque sections.)
06/07/2010 (1:14 pm)
I have a wiki if you have the ideas for stuff to put there. I'm compiling a list of resources, and I think assets would be a good start. Assets and people to contact about custom stuff. Maybe as much information as possible pertaining to the expected budget :)(No, I don't quite trust TDN, besides my idea is for a more generic list of stuff which just happens to have Torque sections.)
Torque 3D Owner Ronny Bangsund
Torque Cheerleaders
If you can, design the game so that you leave a few demo levels/gamestyles/whichever is appropriate in the main app, and use in-app purchases to download the rest for a bit of money. That way there is no need for a specific Lite app. Maybe add push notification to remind people to check the updated in-game store when the rest appears. You could release the whole game in several updates that way if you think it's worth charging a minimum of 99¢ for each download.
I recommend making just one app that way for one important reason: Carrying over savegames. It's possible to do it via OpenFeint or the forthcoming GameKit combined with a server of your own, but local saves require the least effort.