Avarage number of sold games ?

#41 Exactly Adrian.

I have always thought the games I would do on my own or part of a small team just for a resume builder, or a demo to a publisher to create something larger.

But I like the idea of doing a smaller game, that doesnt cost $50, but $10-$25 and is a game that people with similar views will enjoy.

Larger scope games seem to be for a more general audience.

Not that im not a fan of the games that are more main stream, but they are all missing something.

I have often wondered how many shareware games that GG sells, sell. I assume a few thousand over a year. But who knows, could be less, could be more.

#42 I read somewhere that the shareware Poster Child, Doom, only sold 150,000 copies through online distribution. While I would LOVE those kinds of numbers, that tells you that even in its hayday shareware wasn't pushing the really extreme numbers. Actually, by today's standards, the shareware version of Doom would be considered a dismal failure by publishers.

#43 Jay, you have to take into account that there also wasnt so big market in the Doom days. today we got pc in every house, but those days computer was a luxury:)

#44 True 'nuff. Based upon how many people use Ebay & Amazon today, and how ubiquitous online computers are today, one would THINK that the market potential for online distribution would be HUGE. But it doesn't sound like anybody's come close yet.

#45 Heh, I didn't even have internet at home back then and had an amiga. Actually I just started university and www hadn't really taken off yet, everone used gopher and unix for email so those are pretty good sales figures if you ask me. Also shareware games market is growing again, as much as 40% in the last couple of years according to some article I read recently on CNN, MSNBC, BBC or something.

#46 Just curious (I'm sorta new here), does it help a lot to have your dedicated site for your game and then link to GG to buy it? I was just curious because I've been in the modding community for a while and I've found that with links come d/l's (though mods *are* free...). In comparision we got around 400 d/l's in our first week w/out outside links and about 6000 when we were linked.

#47 Ideally youd sell all your games on your own site and not lose any of the profits, except for the fee whoever handles the money and distribution for you, unless you do that yourself too. Unfortunately marketing and everything that goes with self publishing means that for most people trying to make money this isn't really an option, at least to start with. You should of course try and sell as much as you can through your own site, one other reason being the building of a customer base and community around your game that is yours. When you sell through your publisher they get your customers not yours.

Of course everything depends on what you plan on doing. if your games sells well, either way is good, and the bonus of someone like GG as your publisher is that they do extra marketing, and are in a better position with which to negotiate sub contracts with other well known publishers. Having a recognised publisher gives a start up game dev more credibility than someone selling on their own on their won site, unless of course your lucky enough to have build quite a reputation allready :)

#48 That question really doesn't make much sense to me. This is actually a matter of marketing, and ANY time you get the news/advertising out, and the marketing is effective, it will automatically drive numbers up. So regardless how you go about it, you have to:

1) Figure out how to advertise and get the message out. Maybe you already have a database of customers that have signed up for your products. Maybe you want to buy adspace through any number of sites that drive traffic back to your site. Maybe there is an estore already prepared to accept your product.

2) Use as many resources as you can to sell units. My experience shows that 100 smaller funnels are better than one big funnel. Drawing from multiple sources increases your chance of exposure, rather than banking on one source to "do it all". You can still use that one big funnel, but don't neglect the smaller ones- especially if they are a better profit margin.

3) Find a large userbase/visitorbase to promote your products. Effective marketing hits large userbases. Its all percentages- maybe 60% SEE your product advertised. Of that, maybe 45% will click the link for more info. Of that, maybe 70% are interested in the genre of your product. If they are still interested, maybe 50% will download it (if there is a demo available). From that, maybe 15% will buy it.

Even though those percentages are made up, they show how it slowly trickles down to a sale. Based on that lame equation, 1000 visitors *might* lead to 14 sales. Which is higher than it might be in real life. Click-through rates are typically in the single digits, not 45% but it all depends on the site and how closely your product fits that community/site.

So you can see, the larger the userbase/visitorbase is, the more sales you'll [hopefully] achieve. Unless your site already carries a massive amount of traffic, you'll need to figure out how to drive them there.

If you are able to post a product at a community that carries several other games, your exposure will increase dramatically even if the other games are NOT related to your product; the most obvious comes from the fact that casual gamers that aren't necessarily looking for your game [specifically] might stumble on it when they are playing/searching for a different game. Even if the your game wasn't the same genre they were looking for, they will hopefully pause and think about it.

The reason I found GarageGames is because I DLed a demo of Orbz from some other site... I can't remember where. That lead me to DL all the other demos on the GG frontpage, and discover there was an entire indie community!

#49

Quote:If you are under the impression that you will sell thosands or even really crazy 10s of thousands your first few months then you are sadly mistaken. You'll be lucky to sell that many in the lifetime of the software. Online game publishing takes lots of time and hard work. I think it would be safe to say the only reason youll make more than $100 your first month or 2 is because GG is experienced in selling games online so they will advertise for you and get your game out there and they will not let you put up a crappy game or a non completed game.

WOW! First off, a game doesn't deserve to be sold just because it's made. Nor does it deserve great sales because it was promoted using every available outlet. Great games sell themselves. Word of mouth is the fastest spreader of sales. But to tell anyone that they are sadly mistaken if they think their game will sell is not only wrong, but irresponsible as well. Any one o the next games out here could be the next game of the year, or the hottest seller in gaming history. The facts are, you don't know, and neither do I, but we'll both know it when it gets here. If I had to place my money on where the futures hottest games will be coming from, I'll bet on GG and it's community any day.

#50 @Gonzo
"If I had to place my money on where the futures hottest games will be coming from, I'll bet on GG and it's community any day."

I very hope man, thats are the words of the prophet :)

#51 I am going to make an attempt at resurrecting this great thread. =P

Does anyone have any updated input on the average annual profits from quality Idie titles? What about the Casual Games market?

How have these markets changed over the last two years? Casual games in particular seem to be 'heating up' (perhaps motivating the creation of T2D). ; )

I have been working on retail game titles for a number of years now and am already familiar with the whole 'hardwork, dedication, and marketing' coolaid - um - slogans.

Really what I want to know is if any of you have personally had success with the Indie games or Casual Games markets?

Online distribution/marketing as it now stands is a tricky business being so decentralized (vs. retail stores which are more direct yet just as tricky in their own way). Moreover, there is little to no online marketing crossover between Indie/Casual Games and the traditional retail game websites (www.gamespy.com).

Games are not my hobby but my living. I am just wondering if there is any sustainable life outside of the big publishers grasp? I have no fallicies about making revolutionary, ground-breaking, record unit sales on Indie games. I do need to know that there is enough of a market to at least to make ends meet (assuming the title is good, marketed well, properly placed, blah, blah, blah). I expect I already know the answer but actual figures would be awesome.

This does not have to be GG specific. In fact, figures on revenue generated on titles which are marketed through multiple distributors would be great. Please add links to external resources if you have them.

Thanks in advance for you feedback.

-Unk

#52

Quote:How many games will I sell?
We get asked this question all the time, and the only way to answer it is to turn it around, i.e. how good is your game? Good games, that are unique and fun, will find their market and will make good money. Our best games are currently making over $5,000 royalties per month for the author, our worst are making less than $100 in royalties.

#53 Hrm. Thanks... forgot to check the FAQ. =P

A maximum potential of 5,000 per month is pretty good but won't support too many developers. I can see why people keep talking about getting multiple small projects to market quickly.

Actually, I guess that is another good question. What is the salary range of Indie Developers vs. the retail market? I know this may be a toughie... especially considering that developers may work on their own or for free.

Has anyone seen any research studies on Indie/Casual Game sales or trends similar to what they do at http://www.npdfunworld.com or http://www.dfcint.com?

-Unk

#54 In the latest 6 monthes im studied a lot about the indie and shareware market. Is there big succeed titles, like most of the popcap games, especially Zuma or its new clones, like Luxor from Mumbo Jumbo, or the newest Thumlebugs, but i can tell examples on the reflexive's very successfull Ricochet serie, the Bejeweled serie from Popcap , Big Kahuna Reef, Magic Inlay and others.
I cant give you exact numbers but theyve got much higher money than 5K / monthes.
If a game is a hit, it is making a lot of money, but here are much different rules than in the casual boxed market.

Salary in the indie market is something like the "dinner of a homeless dog" :)...is there a few potent clients, but most of them havent got resources, or is that very limited. If you can to make a contract with an indie then you are lucky :), most of them (i mean beginners, or newcomers, some bigger studios are potent) out of resources especially cash.

Thanks for the links !

#55 Thanks for the update, Gabor.

That gives me some hope. =)

As for funding... I am sort of under the assumption that indie gaming involves self funding or minimal funding from small business loans and the like. In my experience, good developers are expensive. On the other hand, the scope of indie games (especially in the casual games market) potentially holds lots of promise because you can get away with having only two or three developers for an entire project vs. the 20-40+ developers required for a quality shelf title.

Running an independant business for the traditional retail market is almost cost prohibitive. The only way retail market indies seem to survive is begging for cash... (not dissimilar from your homeless dog analogy). =P In many cases these businesses either fold or are swallowed up by publishers. Inevitably it is just as hard to make money... perhaps moreso because the scale of the game is that much greater, the stakes that much higher, and the competition that much more multiplied. (Not to mention that publishers will make a return on their investment with interest before you ever see a cent on your own title.)

I am starting to wonder if the great hope of the indie market is the idea of self-sustainability. No more free lunches... no more borrowed money. Start a business from scratch with your own funding (or credit or traditional loans) and build from there. Our ideas... our direction... our market... our industry. *Then* we go and take on the retail market! =P

Anyway... getting off my soapbox now... I am glad to hear that there is a potential profitable market out there.

Time for more research!

-Unk

#56 Some shareware publishers (or we can call them ESD - electronic Software Distributor) can give an option to
publishing your shareware title also on cd (!), and then you are in the boxed market. Boxed market looks like a
great gem for most of the developers, but i really believe that this thing getting less and less potent, and the
electronical business will be the most important business field to us. Not only for indies, but most of the developers. Just take a look at the Steam from Valve. The whole gaming world are telling about a ground breaking
publishing method, but hey, they are only adopted a truly ESD business method, most of the greatest ESDs just has made similar things (like Real Arcade..etc) to the Steam much earlier than Valve did it.
I think for a smaller studio can really make some profit, but be patient and smart, as i said before its much different market than the boxed business... :)

#57 Thanks again. =)

-Unk

#58 Talking about boxed Indie games, I remember reading on another forum about two products made with an indie engine.. not going to mention the engine because it is irrelevant, it could have been Torque no problem.

One was a fishing game that I think sold about 140,000 units probably across 12 months (I'm sure it was more than 100,000 units ) until a few months ago... not sure what's the total now...
Here the author was talking about making $1 per copy sold...there could have been about 20,000 returns...
not sure if the title was also sold as a download

And another title was a driving instructor type of product that also sold over 100,000 copies...among many months of sales

As an Indie you can sell a decent number of copies of your game if you have the right ingredients put together the right way... research and plan your actions to minimize wasted resources and give yourself a better chance.

#59 Thanks for the feedback Hokuto.

-Unk

#60 I think there's never a point to get discouraged.

I think if there was ever a point to be excited about indie development, its now.

customer disatisfaction is high with million dollar titles, software is poorly executed and reinvents the wheel as an octagon, and the distribution medium is leaning towards e-distribution which levels the playing field.

be proud to be an indie developer! push yourself, and reasonably, but most importantly dont lose the vision!

I'm here to make the environments and moods and feelings that I feel that big money games cant make; not because they dont know how, more because they ultmiately keep turning down the wrong corner.

this was a good thread to read, and i'm glad some of the things i've been wondering about have been asked and/or written up as articles..