Collada From 3ds Max - Bones showing
by James · in Artist Corner · 05/06/2010 (12:17 pm) · 15 replies
I'm exporting from 3ds Max 2010 using the latest OpenCollada exporter a figure using CAT bones (Base Human skeleton). The difficulty I'm having is that the bones show up in T3D as geometry which of course is unwanted.
What am I missing here?
I've done a search on the forums but found nothing and the Docs don't shed any light on the problem.
Any thoughts?
Thanks in advance.
What am I missing here?
I've done a search on the forums but found nothing and the Docs don't shed any light on the problem.
Any thoughts?
Thanks in advance.
#2
05/06/2010 (1:29 pm)
james, I'd find chris and send him your files.
#3
Pardon my ignorance, but which Chris should I be contacting?
05/06/2010 (2:57 pm)
Thanks for the quick response Logan. I've tried the FBX version but it flips my geometry around, facing it the wrong way. Must have missed something in the export settings. The bones aren't rendered, so it's a start.Pardon my ignorance, but which Chris should I be contacting?
#4
05/06/2010 (3:48 pm)
Send the file to me, James. I'll have a look. Though if the bones are showing up as geometry......they must have been exported as geometry. In collada there is a clear distinction between nodes/bones/skeleton and geometry/meshes.
#5
This I assume is the case but I can't see where or what to do to change that. Hopefully you can get me pointing in the right direction :)
05/06/2010 (5:39 pm)
Okay Chris, I'll send off one of the files to you (I'll need a working contact address).Quote:they must have been exported as geometry
This I assume is the case but I can't see where or what to do to change that. Hopefully you can get me pointing in the right direction :)
#6
05/06/2010 (7:06 pm)
Email is in my profile (just remove the NULL).
#7
05/07/2010 (8:24 pm)
For whatever reason, the bones were exported to the DAE file as both regular <nodes> and as geometry. The current workaround is to use TSShapeConstructor to remove the unwanted meshes, but the next T3D beta will allow you to specify mesh names to exclude from import in the collada import gui.
#9
05/08/2010 (3:19 pm)
Chris takes alot of pride in his work & that, is awesome. 
#10
The reason why I see this as an issue is that the only "bones" that won't appear as geometry are old crappy "bones" that hardly anyone chooses to use anymore in 3D DCC apps.
05/09/2010 (7:28 am)
Chris is there not a better way to handle "bones showing up as both a node and visible geometry" in code rather than having the end user specify it the way you are suggesting? Even having to tell the engine to exclude mesh names as user input, as opposed to something that the engine just does automatially, seems like an unnecessary step to force people to go through especially considering other game engines with DAE import do not require this and work fine with the same type of input.The reason why I see this as an issue is that the only "bones" that won't appear as geometry are old crappy "bones" that hardly anyone chooses to use anymore in 3D DCC apps.
#11
Possibly, although the ability to exclude arbitrary geometry from being imported is also useful sometimes.
It's very common for (non-bone) geometry to have the same name as the node it is instantiated at, so my only concern would be ignoring geometry that the user actually wanted. So long as the feature could be turned off it should be fine though.
Not sure how other engines do it, but one approach could be to ignore geometry with the same name as a bone that is used by a skinned mesh.
That's handy to know. I'm not an artist - so I rely on this sort of information to have any shot at making good decisions about the Torque import pipeline. If something is missing or just plain doesn't work the way it should, tell me about it! I'm more than happy to try and make Torque artist's jobs easier.
05/09/2010 (3:57 pm)
Quote:Chris is there not a better way to handle "bones showing up as both a node and visible geometry" in code rather than having the end user specify it the way you are suggesting?
Possibly, although the ability to exclude arbitrary geometry from being imported is also useful sometimes.
It's very common for (non-bone) geometry to have the same name as the node it is instantiated at, so my only concern would be ignoring geometry that the user actually wanted. So long as the feature could be turned off it should be fine though.
Not sure how other engines do it, but one approach could be to ignore geometry with the same name as a bone that is used by a skinned mesh.
Quote:The reason why I see this as an issue is that the only "bones" that won't appear as geometry are old crappy "bones" that hardly anyone chooses to use anymore in 3D DCC apps.
That's handy to know. I'm not an artist - so I rely on this sort of information to have any shot at making good decisions about the Torque import pipeline. If something is missing or just plain doesn't work the way it should, tell me about it! I'm more than happy to try and make Torque artist's jobs easier.
#12
05/09/2010 (8:40 pm)
An interesting to note here, that the Autodesk Collada export plugin does NOT export the bones as geometry or at the very least, they are not imported into T3D as geometry. Is this maybe specific to how the openCollada exporter works then?.
#13
Yes I am thinking that as well. It could be how the openCollada exporter is reading the class of the object that is being used as a "bone" and try to do both.
However with that said. I have used OpenCollada exported files in other game engines that import DAEs, and those engines avoid this issue still (not sure how, if theyre just deleting the geometric information like Chris said, or doing something else).
05/10/2010 (7:49 am)
@JamesYes I am thinking that as well. It could be how the openCollada exporter is reading the class of the object that is being used as a "bone" and try to do both.
However with that said. I have used OpenCollada exported files in other game engines that import DAEs, and those engines avoid this issue still (not sure how, if theyre just deleting the geometric information like Chris said, or doing something else).
#14
03/03/2011 (5:16 am)
Y'all ever figure this one out? I'm having this issue now. I see there is a workaround I'll try that out. Just wondering if there was any resolution behind the scenes? 
#15
A workaround to cull out the bones from rendering in T3D was adding a negative "-" to the bones numbering hierarchy.
Bone01 would be renamed to Bone-01
Anything with a negative in the naming convention tells Torque not to render that object. Bones are node objects like geometry. Having the same type of control on a bone should not be any different.
03/03/2011 (8:31 pm)
I have seen this problem before with exported models which use a 3d max Rigging plug-in called Puppetshop. A workaround to cull out the bones from rendering in T3D was adding a negative "-" to the bones numbering hierarchy.
Bone01 would be renamed to Bone-01
Anything with a negative in the naming convention tells Torque not to render that object. Bones are node objects like geometry. Having the same type of control on a bone should not be any different.
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