Multiple postings for one company in Help Wanted... Why?
by Ted Southard · in General Discussion · 07/01/2003 (12:39 pm) · 16 replies
I know this has been discussed before, and I understand that some developers see it as a way to get their project noticed, but really, what's up with that?
If a person wants to get on board a specific project, it's best that they get to see that project, and not the Help Wanted Ads' equivalent of spamming.
It's completely possible for people to list multiple positions in the Subject line or just put "multiple positions" if it doesn't all fit, there's no need to make 5+ posts at a time. If you think your project is that important or great, then you'll get applications. Of course, the flipside to that argument is that if you think that if you think you're project is that important or great, it'll get applicants even if it's not listed in that most-recent-ten list.
However, because of the fact that GG lists the help wanted ads by when they expire instead of when they've been posted, a lot of ads get buried once they're no longer on that list, unless the maximum timeframe for the ad is used.
So, a little courtesy from the fellow developers who feel the need to post a seperate ad for each and every position when 1 ad with all positions listed in it is more appropriate and allows other developers to get the people that are specifically looking for them? Thanks =)
If a person wants to get on board a specific project, it's best that they get to see that project, and not the Help Wanted Ads' equivalent of spamming.
It's completely possible for people to list multiple positions in the Subject line or just put "multiple positions" if it doesn't all fit, there's no need to make 5+ posts at a time. If you think your project is that important or great, then you'll get applications. Of course, the flipside to that argument is that if you think that if you think you're project is that important or great, it'll get applicants even if it's not listed in that most-recent-ten list.
However, because of the fact that GG lists the help wanted ads by when they expire instead of when they've been posted, a lot of ads get buried once they're no longer on that list, unless the maximum timeframe for the ad is used.
So, a little courtesy from the fellow developers who feel the need to post a seperate ad for each and every position when 1 ad with all positions listed in it is more appropriate and allows other developers to get the people that are specifically looking for them? Thanks =)
About the author
Started with indie games over a decade ago, and now creates tools and tech for games. Currently working as a contractor for startups and game studios.
#2
Also, it stems from GG sorting the ads by the date they expire, rather than the date they were posted, which should be changed. <- @GG: Pretty please? With sugar on top? =)
07/01/2003 (5:29 pm)
That's sort of my point. If you have no more room in the posting, it's logical to make another post. Or if it's like 2 positions. But I made a Help Wanted post a couple weeks ago that got buried that day because someone posted *6* positions all seperately.Also, it stems from GG sorting the ads by the date they expire, rather than the date they were posted, which should be changed. <- @GG: Pretty please? With sugar on top? =)
#3
07/02/2003 (12:47 am)
I think having each position posted separately would be fine if I could sort them individual sections by date posted, rather than expiry date...
#4
07/02/2003 (3:06 am)
I no longer use those help wanted adds, and no longer browse them becuase of that. If I need help I post a dev snapshot and ask for help in the comments. That way you only get really interested and talented people.
#5
07/02/2003 (3:20 am)
Well interested at least. :p
#6
I like checking the Help Wanted ads all the time because occasionally there might be something interesting that I can take a peek at. While some people, understandably, don't view them anymore, I prefer to think that a diamond will come out of the rough. Let's face it, anyone who's posting five ads in a row, usually doesn't have a clue what they're doing yet. They just figure, "I need these people, let's get them all in now without planning it out". I don't think I've ever viewed a Help Wanted ad from a batch like that with a concept that sounded remotely original anyhow.
It doesn't really matter. There will always be newbies, they will always think they're cool, and all you have to do is rise above that and wait for them to learn their lessons. The truly gifted (and persistent) ones will make mistakes and continue on. None of us are perfect, really. God knows, I'm struggling to get a project off the ground as it is.
--Paul
07/02/2003 (8:15 am)
Maybe there should be a limit of ads you can post in a day (or even a week). Post three and then you can't post anymore for a while.I like checking the Help Wanted ads all the time because occasionally there might be something interesting that I can take a peek at. While some people, understandably, don't view them anymore, I prefer to think that a diamond will come out of the rough. Let's face it, anyone who's posting five ads in a row, usually doesn't have a clue what they're doing yet. They just figure, "I need these people, let's get them all in now without planning it out". I don't think I've ever viewed a Help Wanted ad from a batch like that with a concept that sounded remotely original anyhow.
It doesn't really matter. There will always be newbies, they will always think they're cool, and all you have to do is rise above that and wait for them to learn their lessons. The truly gifted (and persistent) ones will make mistakes and continue on. None of us are perfect, really. God knows, I'm struggling to get a project off the ground as it is.
--Paul
#7
07/02/2003 (9:27 pm)
Just my two cents, limit one active help ad per category per team/project
#8
A number of people (I must admit that I am one of them) have posted identical ads to the "Artist" and "2D Artist" categories because we don't know which category people actually read. I even recall someone who posted to all 3.
At the very least, removing one of the categories should eliminate some of the clutter in the list of the most recent help wanted ads.
07/02/2003 (10:07 pm)
Also, why are there "Artist", "2D Artist", and "3D Artist" categories? Why not just remove the "Artist" category?A number of people (I must admit that I am one of them) have posted identical ads to the "Artist" and "2D Artist" categories because we don't know which category people actually read. I even recall someone who posted to all 3.
At the very least, removing one of the categories should eliminate some of the clutter in the list of the most recent help wanted ads.
#9
The best category to remove would have to be the "artist", but even that isn't so good; say you wanted an obscure non-3D/2D artist(Not that I can think of any at the moment.. :P)? Just post in the category that best fits your needs, and not the category people read the most..
Since the ads have been taken off the right-hand tables I don't read them myself anymore.. Nor do I post.
Max
07/02/2003 (10:14 pm)
@Steve: Well, I think it was to help organize them, or at least that's the way it used to be.. The best category to remove would have to be the "artist", but even that isn't so good; say you wanted an obscure non-3D/2D artist(Not that I can think of any at the moment.. :P)? Just post in the category that best fits your needs, and not the category people read the most..
Since the ads have been taken off the right-hand tables I don't read them myself anymore.. Nor do I post.
Max
#10
THIS is what you should do when looking for help:
1. Post ONE thread to the team building forum
2. Wait a couple of days for people to email you
3. For the positions that still aren't full, post help wanted ads. Only post 1 for each position. If you need 10 artists, still only post one ad for all of the artists. Do not have a miscellaneous "we want lots of people" ad as well. EITHER have an ad like that or 1+ regular ads.
4. When a position is filled or you decide you don't need that position any more, delete the ad.
There are too many help wanted ads here already.
Moreover, if you've never worked on a game before, you shouldn't be posting ads. Instead, you should be applying to other people's ads. You should be looking for a game to work, not trying to start one yourself. Or at least, you shouldn't start your own project unless it's really easy.
Do NOT post any ads unless you already have something done for your project. If you have nothing to show possible applicants, why would they want to work on your project?
08/31/2003 (4:31 pm)
I noticed that someone posted 5 or so ads for one game, so I figured I'd bring this thread up again.THIS is what you should do when looking for help:
1. Post ONE thread to the team building forum
2. Wait a couple of days for people to email you
3. For the positions that still aren't full, post help wanted ads. Only post 1 for each position. If you need 10 artists, still only post one ad for all of the artists. Do not have a miscellaneous "we want lots of people" ad as well. EITHER have an ad like that or 1+ regular ads.
4. When a position is filled or you decide you don't need that position any more, delete the ad.
There are too many help wanted ads here already.
Moreover, if you've never worked on a game before, you shouldn't be posting ads. Instead, you should be applying to other people's ads. You should be looking for a game to work, not trying to start one yourself. Or at least, you shouldn't start your own project unless it's really easy.
Do NOT post any ads unless you already have something done for your project. If you have nothing to show possible applicants, why would they want to work on your project?
#11
I dont really mind if GG users go to my project site. Im not trying to spam. It would be nice to get more visitors but I got a decent ammount of vistors anyway. I only posted them to get devs to get the job done faster.
Before posting the project leader should decide if they are going to do the project or not. Figure out if its possible and if they can do it. And then plan the game before development. If all that goes well they can post ads but only for what they need. Sort of like doing the project in sections.
Section 1: Programming
Section 2: Art
Section 3: Sounds and Music
And so forth.
08/31/2003 (6:45 pm)
Im guilty of posting 3. I was going to post a couple more but I decided not to. But I didnt make 2 seperate posts for 2 programmer openings. I turned that into one ad.I dont really mind if GG users go to my project site. Im not trying to spam. It would be nice to get more visitors but I got a decent ammount of vistors anyway. I only posted them to get devs to get the job done faster.
Before posting the project leader should decide if they are going to do the project or not. Figure out if its possible and if they can do it. And then plan the game before development. If all that goes well they can post ads but only for what they need. Sort of like doing the project in sections.
Section 1: Programming
Section 2: Art
Section 3: Sounds and Music
And so forth.
#12
The reason I don't like having all the extra ads posted is that they force what's there out of the top 10 ads.
Although I found your website in your ads, it doesn't seem to be in your public profile. If it was there too, you might get more hits.
09/01/2003 (6:42 pm)
Actually, it wasn't you that I was complaining about.The reason I don't like having all the extra ads posted is that they force what's there out of the top 10 ads.
Although I found your website in your ads, it doesn't seem to be in your public profile. If it was there too, you might get more hits.
#13
09/02/2003 (9:25 am)
Yeah its stupid for some people to spam it up making it unfair to others. Half of the projects on this site usually never work out anyway. Those are the ones that put ads for a "full" dev team. And the user that posts them doesnt know much about the project developent to begin with. 
#14
That's awfully generous.
-J
09/02/2003 (9:28 am)
"Half of the projects on this site usually never work out anyway."That's awfully generous.
-J
#15
But GG users do make really good projects none the less. I am not trying to throw stones at people.
09/02/2003 (1:25 pm)
I am sorry but its not very hard for someone to sign up, post a bunch of want ads, and quit a day - week later. Which is what I have seen most of the projects do, or the user/group looses interest in the project.But GG users do make really good projects none the less. I am not trying to throw stones at people.
#16
I've talked to some people who were enthuisastic when they first started making a game and then drifted off over the course of a month or so.
In my experience, they go through several phases. First, the do a fair amount of work for a week or two. Second, they sometimes do a little bit for a couple of weeks. Third, they send emails saying they're working on it (sometimes, they claim to have large amounts of work done, which they don't send you). Finally, you never hear from them again, unless you hear from them once more when they tell you they're quitting whatever they're working on.
That's not always the case though. And even when it is, sometimes people come back.
I'm one of the people who drifted away as mentioned above, though, at least I told the people I was working with that I was quitting the project.
So don't be too hard on people who quit or disappear. People have other things going on in their lives besides garagegames.
That doesn't mean you have to be happy when some leaves you with a game partway done though.
09/02/2003 (4:27 pm)
I think Brad's right. There's a whole list of dead projects to prove that alot of people never finish what they're working on.I've talked to some people who were enthuisastic when they first started making a game and then drifted off over the course of a month or so.
In my experience, they go through several phases. First, the do a fair amount of work for a week or two. Second, they sometimes do a little bit for a couple of weeks. Third, they send emails saying they're working on it (sometimes, they claim to have large amounts of work done, which they don't send you). Finally, you never hear from them again, unless you hear from them once more when they tell you they're quitting whatever they're working on.
That's not always the case though. And even when it is, sometimes people come back.
I'm one of the people who drifted away as mentioned above, though, at least I told the people I was working with that I was quitting the project.
So don't be too hard on people who quit or disappear. People have other things going on in their lives besides garagegames.
That doesn't mean you have to be happy when some leaves you with a game partway done though.
Steve Fletcher
For people who need an entire team, I suggest posting one "need team" thread in the forum first. Describe your game and what you need there. Then you might only need to post 1 or 2 help wanted ads.
Also, ads for positions that have been filled or are no longer needed should be taken down.